Date   

moderated Re: Provide option to disable ability of members to delete their posts #suggestion

 

(I have not read all the messages in this topic yet)

On Sun, Jan 9, 2022 at 1:54 PM Andy <AI.egrps+io@...> wrote:

That SEEMS like an extreme case, that Mark would not likely do except in extreme circumstances.  The individual member is not a paying subscriber, after all, and it probably takes some effort on Mark's part to locate and delete their old messages.  Unless there is a legal requirement, I have to think that Mark wouldn't do this just because a former member asked him to do it.

I've never deleted all of a person's messages.

Mark 


moderated Re: "All Messages By This Member" #suggestion

 

I, too, would like to see the "All Messages by This Member" button in a lot more places than currently. It sometimes takes several steps to get to it instead of the 1 step you'd expect.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated "All Messages By This Member" #suggestion

Ruthie Levi
 

in our all moderated group, we check each member’s pending post against his past posting history...is there anyway to move the “All Messages By This Member button to the pending message view for that specific member?

 

just a request/idea...i understand not all of our wishes get granted :)

 

hope everyone is staying healthy!

 

ruthie levi

 


moderated Re: Provide option to disable ability of members to delete their posts #suggestion

Paul Gray
 

Why not just do what I do, if you need to save copies of messages?  In my group, I created a dummy account which main purpose is to receive all posts made to my group.  I have it set up so that each day, the dummy account (which is also set up as a full Moderator account) receives a full-featured digest of all messages posted to the group since the last digest.  It's an easy way to keep a copy of all messages generated in the event something happens with the message base.


Paul.






××××××××××~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~××××××××××

“Be at war with your vices, at peace with your neighbors, and let every new year find you a better man.”  -- Benjamin Franklin

××××××××××~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~××××××××××



moderated Re: Provide option to disable ability of members to delete their posts #suggestion

Andy
 

On Sun, Jan 9, 2022 at 04:35 PM, Donald Hellen wrote:
I thought that a person who was removed from a group could contact Mark and be
able to delete their old messages if they chose to do so? Or that there was some
mechanism they could use for this.

That SEEMS like an extreme case, that Mark would not likely do except in extreme circumstances.  The individual member is not a paying subscriber, after all, and it probably takes some effort on Mark's part to locate and delete their old messages.  Unless there is a legal requirement, I have to think that Mark wouldn't do this just because a former member asked him to do it.

There used to be a lot of history (in the USA at least) about publisher's rights and responsibilities, well before the Internet age.  I don't know how much of modern law leverages off of it or departs from it.

Andy


moderated Re: Provide option to disable ability of members to delete their posts #suggestion

 

On Sun, Jan 9, 2022 at 01:48 PM, Bob Bellizzi wrote:
This has gone far too far
There's no stopping us now! lol You created a monster ;)
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Provide option to disable ability of members to delete their posts #suggestion

 

On Sun, Jan 9, 2022 at 01:48 PM, Andy wrote:

Or are you saying that only Moderators can edit a message without also sending the edited message?
Yes. Only mods can edit and then "save without sending."
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Provide option to disable ability of members to delete their posts #suggestion

Bob Bellizzi
 

This has gone far too far and might even tempt me to delete my original message for this thread.
Thank you all for your investment in this subject.
--

Bob Bellizzi
FuchsFriends@groups.io online  support  group for corneal dystrophy patients & caregivers
The Corneal Dystrophy Foundation 


moderated Re: Provide option to disable ability of members to delete their posts #suggestion

Andy
 

On Sun, Jan 9, 2022 at 04:27 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
On Sun, Jan 9, 2022 at 01:21 PM, Andy wrote:
If someone Edits an existing message and doesn't send it out again, nobody would receive it with the edits, so their saved archive would not be correct.
Only moderators can do that anyway.

That depends on the group's settings.  (Editing a message, that is.)

Or are you saying that only Moderators can edit a message without also sending the edited message?

Andy


moderated Re: Provide option to disable ability of members to delete their posts #suggestion

Donald Hellen
 

Andy . . .

On Sun, 09 Jan 2022 13:21:35 -0800, "Andy" <AI.egrps+io@...> wrote:

If someone writes something, and then is removed from the group, we have denied him/her the right to delete their own message. Therefore, what was said about groups.io "cannot restrict a message owner from deleting their own written works" is not actually true.
I thought that a person who was removed from a group could contact Mark and be
able to delete their old messages if they chose to do so? Or that there was some
mechanism they could use for this.

Donald


----------------------------------------------------
Some ham radio groups you may be interested in:
https://groups.io/g/ICOM https://groups.io/g/Ham-Antennas
https://groups.io/g/HamRadioHelp https://groups.io/g/Baofeng
https://groups.io/g/CHIRP https://rf-amplifiers.groups.io/g/main


moderated Re: Provide option to disable ability of members to delete their posts #suggestion

 

On Sun, Jan 9, 2022 at 01:21 PM, Andy wrote:
If someone Edits an existing message and doesn't send it out again, nobody would receive it with the edits, so their saved archive would not be correct.
Only moderators can do that anyway.

If someone writes something, and then is removed from the group, we have denied him/her the right to delete their own message.  Therefore, what was said about groups.io "cannot restrict a message owner from deleting their own written works" is not actually true.
Exactly right. Which gives the lie to the idea that letting them remove it is some sort of legal requirement. (Strictly speaking, I said you can't stop a *group member* from deleting their own messages in groups.io, which is true. If you substitute "message owner" for "group member," you of course can.)

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Provide option to disable ability of members to delete their posts #suggestion

 

True, I realized belatedly that the safe harbor law is only in the US.


On Jan 9, 2022, at 1:10 PM, Andy <AI.egrps+io@...> wrote:

On Sun, Jan 9, 2022 at 10:32 AM, Donald Hellen wrote:
Platforms such as this one are not responsible for the content uploaded by
others. They're protected by law, at least to some extent.

One thing to be conscious of, is the fact that groups have no national boundaries, the way laws do.  It may be less obvious to many of you.  Some groups here are very cosmopolitan, even if not intentionally.

Andy

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Provide option to disable ability of members to delete their posts #suggestion

Andy
 

On Sun, Jan 9, 2022 at 11:11 AM, D R Stinson wrote:
I suspect the best way to preserve such evidence is to ... save all the messages from a group, perhaps as full featured digests...

You would also need to disable Editing of messages.  If someone Edits an existing message and doesn't send it out again, nobody would receive it with the edits, so their saved archive would not be correct.

It's a complicated situation.  And so far I think we are only talking about dealing with POSSIBLE consequences, without knowing if or what may be the actual problem.  If someone writes something, and then is removed from the group, we have denied him/her the right to delete their own message.  Therefore, what was said about groups.io "cannot restrict a message owner from deleting their own written works" is not actually true.

Andy


moderated Re: Provide option to disable ability of members to delete their posts #suggestion

Andy
 

On Sun, Jan 9, 2022 at 10:32 AM, Donald Hellen wrote:
Platforms such as this one are not responsible for the content uploaded by
others. They're protected by law, at least to some extent.

One thing to be conscious of, is the fact that groups have no national boundaries, the way laws do.  It may be less obvious to many of you.  Some groups here are very cosmopolitan, even if not intentionally.

Andy


moderated Re: Provide option to disable ability of members to delete their posts #suggestion

 

On Sun, Jan 9, 2022 at 08:11 AM, D R Stinson wrote:
taking away the right of a person to delete their own written works runs afoul of copyright law
Not true. Members give groups.io indefinite rights to publish their content.

As someone else noted, it most likely also runs afoul of GRDP.
I disagree with that, too. GROP allows them to request take-down of their personal data. Not content written by them. They can request take-down of data about them. Not by them, especially if they've already given rights. But this has been gone over and over in this group ad infinitum. I think it's allowed to stand because yahoo let them do it.

 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Provide option to disable ability of members to delete their posts #suggestion

 

On Sun, Jan 9, 2022 at 07:32 AM, Donald Hellen wrote:
Platforms such as this one are not responsible for the content uploaded by
others. They're protected by law, at least to some extent.
At least for now. Going off-topic: that law needs to be changed in certain cases.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Provide option to disable ability of members to delete their posts #suggestion

 

I understand Bob's concern. What he's looking for is a way to preserve evidence of slander or liable. Whether to protect the group or the author is irrelevant. Unfortunately taking away the right of a person to delete their own written works runs afoul of copyright law because it because it puts the group owner (as the person ultimately responsible for the group) in the position of taking ownership of the message (in essence, the copyright) away from the author. As someone else noted, it most likely also runs afoul of GRDP. This is why groups.io feels it cannot restrict a message owner from deleting their own written works.
 
I suspect the best way to preserve such evidence is to maintain a separate membership to receive and save all the messages from a group, perhaps as full featured digests, as formatting can influence how a message is understood. These can be held should some need arise. I think it might also be advisable to let all the members know, perhaps as a Special Notice so everyone sees it, as it may help members to be more circumspect about what they post.
 
Dano
___________________
 
On Sat, Jan 8, 2022 at 02:59 PM, Bob Bellizzi wrote:
an original in a screenshot of it on groups.io would be more desirable for possible defense
I'm just not seeing that, nor am I seeing a need for a defense. It's gone from your site. Over and done.

Regarding keeping tabs on members' actions, why not request an optional notification for post deletions? I still completely fail to see how disallowing members from deleting heir own posts even comes close to solving your problem. And on top of that, surely there are not a large number of people in your group actually perpetrating this unique kind of offense anyway?
 
--
J

 


moderated Re: Provide option to disable ability of members to delete their posts #suggestion

Donald Hellen
 

On Sat, 08 Jan 2022 15:07:17 -0800, "J_Catlady" <j.olivia.catlady@...>
wrote:

I'm just not seeing that, nor am I seeing a need for a defense. It's gone from your site. Over and done.
If anything, the member who deleted the post may show he realized the post
shouldn't have been made in the first place, and that would leave the group off
the hook. That would point the finger at him, not the group.

Platforms such as this one are not responsible for the content uploaded by
others. They're protected by law, at least to some extent.

Donald



----------------------------------------------------
Some ham radio groups you may be interested in:
https://groups.io/g/ICOM https://groups.io/g/Ham-Antennas
https://groups.io/g/HamRadioHelp https://groups.io/g/Baofeng
https://groups.io/g/CHIRP https://rf-amplifiers.groups.io/g/main


moderated Re: Provide option to disable ability of members to delete their posts #suggestion

Pat Pratt
 

Why can't you just moderate this member with this option in their membership file?

Override: moderate the first message of every topic this person starts
--
Pat Pratt


moderated Re: Provide option to disable ability of members to delete their posts #suggestion

 

On Sat, Jan 8, 2022 at 10:29 PM, Christos Psarras wrote:
That message can be part of the evidence,
I don't understand what "evidence" everybody is talking about. Evidence for what? How can saving the hapless message be evidence for anything? It's gone from your group. In fact, the poster helped you in that way by removing it himself. I don't think you have any accountability for what other people do in their email. Suppose the NYT posted something libelous and then takes it down.  Meanwhile someone else has copied it and emailed it to others. IANAL but that's not your fault or your problem.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

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