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moderated Re: Pending message remains after member leaves group #suggestion #done

Andy
 

It is odd that if a Moderator bans a member, their pending message instantly vanishes (deleted).  But if "system" (Groups.io) bans a member, their pending message remains, waiting for approval.  I've got mixed feelings about that.  Maybe there is no "right" way.

If a new member posts a message and then leaves (perhaps by accident) before it is approved, then you probably would not want that message to vanish before a moderator has a choice what to do with it.  Apparently that is what happens now.

Andy


moderated Re: Pending message remains after member leaves group #suggestion #done

 

I agree that leaving pending messages rather than just deleting them when a member leaves or is removed (or even banned) from a group can be useful. You don't wipe out all traces of past members. Pending messages as well as existing messages are part of their legacy, to be disposed of in whatever manner the mod thinks is appropriate in each case. 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Deleting a pending message should say "pending message" in the Activity Log #suggestion #done

Andy
 

On Wed, Dec 22, 2021 at 10:34 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
Well, a rejected message doesn't need the word "pending" because that's implied.

I understand that, and I already addressed that.


I was merely trying to clarify for you, since you asked "what's the difference," the difference between reject and delete.

That was waaay back.  We already clarified that.

Andy


moderated Re: Deleting a pending message should say "pending message" in the Activity Log #suggestion #done

 

Well, a rejected message doesn't need the word "pending" because that's implied. I have no further interest in this. I was merely trying to clarify for you, since you asked "what's the difference," the difference between reject and delete.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Deleting a pending message should say "pending message" in the Activity Log #suggestion #done

Andy
 

J,

It makes no difference how the pending message was deleted or rejected, nor whether the member was banned or not banned or removed or not removed.

The whole point of my suggestion is this: to add the word "pending" to the entry in the Activity Log.

I'm happy that you have a better picture now of the background behind these events, but I believe it does not matter.  If a pending message gets deleted or rejected by any means, I'm asking that the activity log include the word "pending", so that we know it was a pending message.  Simple enough?  The "Actions" filter for the Activity log has separate entries for "Deleted message" versus "Deleted pending message", so I think it stands to reason that the lines in the Activity log also should differentiate between regular messages and pending messages by using the word "pending" when it was a pending message that went away.

Andy


moderated Re: Deleting a pending message should say "pending message" in the Activity Log #suggestion #done

 

On Tue, Dec 21, 2021 at 09:37 PM, Andy wrote:
But of course I didn't.  I used the "Ban member" button. No such dialog about "Delete this message without notifying the sender"
That was not mentioned in your OP, which in fact only referred to "rejecting" the message. You are now starting to clarify the situation.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Pending message remains after member leaves group #suggestion #done

Duane
 

On Tue, Dec 21, 2021 at 11:24 PM, Andy wrote:
(1)  If a member posts a message requiring approval, but then leaves the group (perhaps by their own doing, but definitely if removed by a Moderator) before the message was approved, the pending message remains in the queue, still waiting to be approved.

I wonder what would happen if that message is approved.  (I did not try.)
I just had this happen a few days ago when a member posted a moderated message, then left.  After I approved the message, it was posted to the group as normal.  The entry in the log says "approved 's message #1803".  I can click on the message title that follows to go to it and see who posted it if I have a need.

Duane


moderated Re: Pending message remains after member leaves group #suggestion #done

Andy
 

In case anyone cares, I probably need to correct something I wrote:

(1)  If a member posts a message requiring approval, but then leaves the group (perhaps by their own doing, but definitely if removed by a Moderator) before the message was approved, the pending message remains in the queue, still waiting to be approved.
The underlined portion above might not be correct.  Substitute this phrase: "but definitely if the member was Banned by system".

It might also be true if the member was removed (but not Banned) by a Moderator.  There were many related actions in the last couple of days and I might have lost track of which ones did what.  Sorry.

Andy


moderated Re: Deleting a pending message should say "pending message" in the Activity Log #suggestion #done

Andy
 

On Wed, Dec 22, 2021 at 12:17 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
"Delete" deletes the pending message without notifying the sender. If you've done it, you've seen the confirmation dialog: "Delete this message without notifying the sender?" ...

But of course I didn't.  I used the "Ban member" button.  No such dialog about "Delete this message without notifying the sender" - which I think is appropriate for a banned member, IMHO.

Andy


moderated Re: Deleting a pending message should say "pending message" in the Activity Log #suggestion #done

Andy
 

Since the Activity log has entries for both Deleted pending messages, and Rejected pending messages, I think it would be appropriate to add the word "pending" in the log entries for both.

Therefore:
  • If a pending message is deleted, the log ought to say "abc@... deleted mno@...'s pending message ..."
  • If a pending message is rejected, the log ought to say "abc@... rejected mno@...'s pending message ..."

Perhaps not necessary, because "rejected" may imply that it was pending.  But it seems fair to make them otherwise look the same, and to remove any chance of misunderstanding.

Andy


moderated Pending message remains after member leaves group #suggestion #done

Andy
 

These are minor nuisances.  I don't know if anything ought to be done about them.  I just find them a little bit odd.

(1)  If a member posts a message requiring approval, but then leaves the group (perhaps by their own doing, but definitely if removed by a Moderator) before the message was approved, the pending message remains in the queue, still waiting to be approved.

I wonder what would happen if that message is approved.  (I did not try.)

(2)  Then, when a Moderator rejects that pending message, the Activity Log shows that the moderator "deleted 's message".  Note that there is a place for the sender's ID, before the apostrophe-s, but it is blank.  I wonder if it could have the sender's ID anyway, even though they are not a group member anymore.  It's not really necessary but it might help refresh our memory about who attempted to send the message.

Andy


moderated Re: Deleting a pending message should say "pending message" in the Activity Log #suggestion #done

 

On Tue, Dec 21, 2021 at 09:12 PM, Andy wrote:
what is the difference?
"Delete" deletes the pending message without notifying the sender. If you've done it, you've seen the confirmation dialog: "Delete this message without notifying the sender?" "Reject" notifies the sender ("Your message was not approved") and gives the mod the opportunity to write a reason for the rejection.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Deleting a pending message should say "pending message" in the Activity Log #suggestion #done

Andy
 

On Tue, Dec 21, 2021 at 11:44 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
I think you mean when a mod deletes a pending message (as in your message title here). When they reject it, the log says they rejected it.

Sorry.  I did not know there is a difference.  I should have looked more closely.

Out of curiosity, what is the difference?  If a message is pending, then it seemed (to me) that delete = reject, so obviously I am missing something.  I see (now) that the Activity log has entries for both.  I also see (now) that rejecting a pending message sends a notice email to the sender, but deleting a pending message does not.  Is that the only difference?  If that is the only difference, would it not be better to name the actions to make it clear?

What happened in this case was the result of clicking the "Ban member" button (or whatever it was called) at the bottom of the pending message.  That action simultaneously bans the member, and deletes the message.

Andy


moderated Re: Deleting a pending message should say "pending message" in the Activity Log #suggestion #done

 

On Tue, Dec 21, 2021 at 08:29 PM, Andy wrote:
When a Moderator rejects a pending message
I think you mean when a mod deletes a pending message (as in your message title here). When they reject it, the log says they rejected it.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Deleting a pending message should say "pending message" in the Activity Log #suggestion #done

Andy
 

When a Moderator rejects a pending message, the Activity Log records that the Moderator deleted the message, but with no mention of the word "pending" in the Activity Log.  This is somewhat confusing.  In the log, it looks almost the same as the entry when a member deletes their own message.

I recommend that the word "message" be changed to "pending message" in the Activity Log, when a moderator deletes a pending message.

(It's also confusing because applying the "Deleted message" filter to the Activity Log does not find these messages deleted by the Moderator.  One has to use the "Deleted pending message" filter for that, but then the entries it finds do not mention "pending".)

Thanks,
Andy


moderated Re: Make available printed manuals #suggestion

 

On Tue, Dec 21, 2021 at 01:24 PM, Nina E wrote:

(the gutter alternates on odd- and even-numbered pages to accommodate two-sided printing)

Now we wait for the complaints from those that print single-sided... ;>) Thank you for your devotion to the documentation and attempting to keep it up to date!

Duane
_________________

I wonder if worrying about the binding edge is necessary? Can this better be accommodated by a good copy shop? Will newer printers also shift to left or right to accommodate a binding edge? How many people have bothered to learn the capabilities of their own printers at home? Then there's the concern that a person might only want a segment of the document and the gutter will fall on the wrong side for just that segment. Sometimes by making things to easy we run into unintended consequences and stifle people's learning.

My 2¢ worth.

Dano


moderated Re: Make available printed manuals #suggestion

Duane
 

On Tue, Dec 21, 2021 at 01:24 PM, Nina E wrote:
(the gutter alternates on odd- and even-numbered pages to accommodate two-sided printing)
Now we wait for the complaints from those that print single-sided...  ;>)  Thank you for your devotion to the documentation and attempting to keep it up to date!

Duane


moderated Re: Make available printed manuals #suggestion

Nina E
 

Season's greetings! For those who don't know me, I'm the technical writer Mark contracted at the beginning of 2020 to write and then maintain the documentation that is available in the Groups.io Help Center.

There are no current plans to provide printed editions of the Groups.io manuals. As others here have noted, PDF versions of the manuals are available, which can be printed as desired. The online (HTML) versions and PDF versions of the manuals are always released simultaneously, and each has a Revision history section at the end.

Based on the discussion in this topic, I reformatted the PDF versions of the Owners Manual, Members Manual, and Owners Getting Started Guide to:

  • Customize the page size to fit on both A4 and U.S.letter-sized paper
  • Add a gutter to provide space in the margin for binding (the gutter alternates on odd- and even-numbered pages to accommodate two-sided printing)
  • Add the revision date to the page footers in the chapters
I hope the reformatted PDF versions of these manuals will prove useful to those who opt to print them.

Also, for those who might not be aware, a docs subgroup is available where you can post suggestions or corrections that apply to the content of the Groups.io documentation.

Best to all for 2022!

Regards,
Nina


billsf9c
 

I often wish, as both owner and/or member, that in addition to Reply to Group and Reply [Private] to Sender, that I could Reply to Owners/Mods, from ANY post, rather that just writing the owner.

Many issues with a post are best served by advising all Owners & Mods at once, making their conversations behind the green curtain all the quicker.

It also serves as a way for members to more properly vent, OffList, about a post, member or issue.

BillSF9c


moderated Re: Does GIO use Log4J? #misc

Pete Cook
 

Thanks, Mark. 

 

Pete 

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