On Sun, Dec 12, 2021 at 05:54 AM, J_Catlady wrote:

Example: someone posts a message offering two bags of free fish (this actually happened today - the group member belongs to a sustainable fish coop and often, people don't pick up their fish) set to "reply only to sender" because she doesn't want to disturb the rest of the group with everybody's replies. But then, when the two bags have been taken, she can't let the group know to stop responding except by starting a new topic.

I'm still not seeing an issue that cannot be resolved by using 'Reply To Sender' instead of 'Reply Only To Sender'. 

My suggestion is to fix this by allowing reply messages by the OP to actually go to the group.

By making an exception, this would go against the description of what it actually says it does.  The more exceptions you build in, the more complex things become to keep up with and I'm a firm believer in keeping things simple.

Also, someone posted here recently asking for clarification between "reply to sender" and "reply only to sender" for a hashtag.

That was me on the docs subgroup.

Regards
Andy

On Sun, Dec 12, 2021 at 11:42 AM, Bruce Bowman wrote:

Recent discussions in group_help have suggested that printed manuals provided by groups.io might be desirable, with appropriate remuneration.

I think the key point here is "provided by groups.io." There's no need for groups.io to be involved since there are many PDF printing services that a member or owner could use themselves to print the PDF manual on demand. For example, I can get a printed and bound copy of the Groups.io Owners Manual for less than $15 including shipping at printme1.com (not affiliated with them).

My bad, misread that. Still not gonna work for us. First, I don’t want to have to moderate all the free stuff, items for sale threads in the group in question. Second, I don’t want to receive all the private condolences sent to cat owners in my cats group. And I’m sure there are a hundred other use cases.

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

On Mon, Dec 13, 2021 at 01:40 PM, J_Catlady wrote:

I need the hashtag to be usable by non-moderators.

I said the hashtag we use was moderated, not restricted to Moderators.

Regards
Andy

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

On Sun, Dec 12, 2021 at 05:56 PM, J_Catlady wrote:

The problem is when you’re offering something and there’s no way to tell the group that the stuff has been taken.

On my group we just use a #replytosender hashtag which is moderated. If someone other than the OP replies to the group rather than the sender we can reject the message. If the OP sends an update, we approve it. Simple but effective.

Regards
Andy

On Mon, Dec 13, 2021 at 12:50 AM, Dr. MC Black wrote:

I find it impossible to follow instructions given "on screen" because I have forgotten what was suggested by the time I have gone back to the application.

Is there a reason why you cannot have two windows side-by-side with a manual in one and Groups.io in the other?  That would seem the simplest option if you want to look at two things at the same time.

Regards
Andy

I suggest that the incremental changes are not nearly so severe, that the manuals become immediately obsolete.

Surely if someone wants a printed manual, they must understand that it was current before they got it, and probably not up to date soon after.  In other words, if they truly need a printed manual, they probably know this already, and are OK with it.

I would not expect anyone to send periodic updates, like the U.S. GPO.

Andy

On Sun, Dec 12, 2021 at 06:50 PM, Massie, Jerry wrote:

Provide the "hardcopy" manual as a PDF, which makes it searchable either in online or offline copy,

The manuals already exist as pdfs that can be downloaded and/or printed.  It looks like many folks haven't even found them - https://groups.io/helpcenter.  All are updated as needed, often within a few days after a change is made to the site.  The Owners and Members manuals have each been updated ~20 times this year!

Duane

IMO, printed manuals still have a place today but only for things that don't change that much; for an ever-evolving system like GIO, a printed manual would be really impractical to implement as (if it was to be done the right way like they used to do it back then), it would first require restructuring of the help file structure so printed pages could be easily inserted/deleted/replaced without affecting all page numbering and whatnot, it would require someone to print (on demand) the (current) hardcopy and mail it, and also someone to keep track of changes and email the printed manual recipients/buyers/whatever the changed pages PDF with instructions to "replace pages x-y with the new versions, or remove page(s) x-y or insert pages a-b in section x after page y, etc, etc.  Back then they had dedicated staff who did that function.

By the time all this complexity and cost is accounted for, it may as well be cheaper and/or less time spent to add context-sensitive help on the various pages using popups or similar, and if someone still wanted a printed copy, they can print the PDF or go to a print shop and have it printed for them.

Cheers,
Christos

Whose going to do all of the work to keep a printed version up to date?

It seems like it would be a lot of... lowers shades.... manual labor.

YEAAAAH!

Best,

Glenn
(I'll see myself out)

You can have the downloadable manual in PDF. That's easy to print as desired.

Hello, what about an option to just print the manual that's already on the site. That way you could just print it yourselves I think that would be more feasible.

Please, PLEASE, P L E A S E have a printed manual.

I find it impossible to follow instructions given "on screen" because I have forgotten what was suggested by the time I have gone back to the application.

There is  a series of books "The Missing Manual" which would  NOT exist if people did NOT want a printed manual.

I appreciate that lots of people don't want a manual.

My view is  that if somebody is  selling an application (for hundreds of pounds) the additional cost of offering a printed manual would  be infinitesimal - especially if it was supplied on request rather than "in the box"

Of course that argument does NOT apply in the case of Groups.IO

MC Black (Dr.)

This one is actually pretty easy.  Provide the "hardcopy" manual as a PDF, which makes it searchable either in online or offline copy, and allows users to print a copy locally (at their own expense) if they wish.

The only problem would be getting someone to make timely revisions so that the latest "official" manual is reasonably current.

Jerry

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

Let's not forget that the Guy Code prohibits the reading of manuals by men (in the same way the reading of road maps is not permitted).

I have lots of manuals in printed form that were out of date either before or soon after I purchased them.
GIO is developing far too rapidly to try to do this.
We should bless the inventors of the Internet for giviing us this realtime, continually up to date way to understand a product as it keeps evolving.
Otherwise someone would have to weigh the value of a change vs not only its' advisability but also have to  consider the cost of new manuals and how many to order, who to notify, etc.
I've been in this business for over 50 years and don't ever expect tto need a hard copy of such a complex product that is constantly evolving.

--

Bob Bellizzi
FuchsFriends@groups.io online  support  group for corneal dystrophy patients & caregivers
The Corneal Dystrophy Foundation 

On Sun, Dec 12, 2021 at 02:07 PM, J_Catlady wrote:

Are you mixing this up with the thread about who can post to locked topics? You do say "effectively lock," but I would not consider a topic with a "reply to sender" hashtag even "effectively locked." The "reply" button is still there - it just goes as a private reply.

No, it's effectively locked as far as replying to the group.  Yes, you can still use reply, but it goes to the sender.

Duane