On Thu, Dec 9, 2021 at 01:50 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:

I've now completed the second step in fixing this bug; I've gone through the database and broken all existing file folder loops. There were 54 loops over 52 groups (from ~88k groups examined). For each loop, I took one of the folders and moved it to the top level of the Files section. I also appended "(recovered)" to the name of that folder.

Mark -- At this time I cannot move any subfolders to the top level.

FYI,
Bruce

Finally, I need to update the Move dialog UI to not show subfolders when moving a folder.

Mark, when you wrote that, do you mean (when this step is completed) that it will no longer show any subfolders until clicked to open them?  Or do you mean not showing subfolders of the original folder being moved?

(I would be in favor of the former, because we have many folders and currently it's a real pain in the you-know-what to locate the target folder from the colossal list.  I'm not entirely sure what would really help with that - but having the UI not display every possible folder right off the bat, would probably be a step in the right direction.  That is really a separate issue.  I was just wondering which you meant to do.)

Andy

Hi All,

I've now completed the second step in fixing this bug; I've gone through the database and broken all existing file folder loops. There were 54 loops over 52 groups (from ~88k groups examined). For each loop, I took one of the folders and moved it to the top level of the Files section. I also appended "(recovered)" to the name of that folder.

Please let me know if you have any questions.

Thanks,
Mark

Definitely not a matter of life and death, but I'm a bit curious about how much traffic is being handled by Groups.io, both in and out.  I know that about a year ago there were ~17M emails sent per day, quite an increase from the first 1M day just 4 years earlier.  I don't recall ever seeing a number for incoming, but I suspect a large part of it is spam.

Thanks,
Duane

On Wed, Dec 8, 2021 at 12:37 PM, J_Catlady wrote:

Do you mean it has been doing that all along? This is only a recent problem for many of us.

J -- I wish I could give you a simple answer.

TDS made wholesale changes to their webmail interface two days ago. The flagging of messages as "suspicious" coincides with that. I've also seen increased delays in message delivery (up to 24 hours).

The re-routing of some messages to spam predates that by a few days. I cannot speak to what they may have changed "under the hood," or when.

Bottom line: I have come to hate my provider, but the hassles involved in changing an email address that I've been using for 20 years speak for themselves. I am not interested in going down that rabbit hole (nor opening an off-topic discussion about it).

Regards,
Bruce

On Wed, Dec 8, 2021 at 09:36 AM, Bruce Bowman wrote:

I've come to expect this with my mail provider (TDS).

Do you mean it has been doing that all along? This is only a recent problem for many of us. The non-matching addresses (as you know) has been effect for a very long time and this problem (for many of us - I think people using gmail?) started only now. 
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

On Wed, Dec 8, 2021 at 12:23 PM, J_Catlady wrote:

Couldn't find around 20+ messages I was missing, just found them in spam.

Same here, only with 12 messages.

But I've come to expect this with my mail provider (TDS). It flags every group message as "suspicious" because the Reply-to doesn't match the From.

Bruce

Couldn't find around 20+ messages I was missing, just found them in spam. Happened over the past 2-3 days.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

"If I click on one of these subfolders as the destination, that entire section of the directory structure collapses and disappears, along with all of its content."

I'd definitely call loss of a folder (and any sub-folders/files in it) a dramatic failure.

Well that is an interesting question.

I paused for a moment when I first read it, but I did not interpret Bruce's statement as actually meaning that the folder and its sub-folders actually disappeared from the Files section.  If they did, that would indeed be a catastrophic failure (and further evidence that groups.io's file structure has serious integrity problems).  But I re-read Bruce's note a few times and (perhaps mistakenly) concluded that he meant that they disappeared from his screen when the pop-up window vanished, but that the files themselves were still intact.

I wonder, which was it?

If it was the folders and files themselves that disappeared, then that would be the thing to highlight - not the fact that the pop-up box collapses and disappears.  I find it hard to interpret which one he meant.  But maybe that's just me.

Andy

On Wed, Dec 8, 2021 at 10:13 AM, Andy wrote:

That is not a dramatic failure.  You said that this is a bug, but I don't think it is, because it's behaving normally when that happens.

Read Bruce's second paragraph:

"If I click on one of these subfolders as the destination, that entire section of the directory structure collapses and disappears, along with all of its content."

I'd definitely call loss of a folder (and any sub-folders/files in it) a dramatic failure.

Duane

I have in fact already explained this.

Not very well, I'm afraid.  You said that the  pop-up box disappears.  That's normal.  That is not a dramatic failure.  You said that this is a bug, but I don't think it is, because it's behaving normally when that happens.

It's sort of true that its display ought not to include directories into which the current one can not legitimately be moved.  What it's doing is just listing all of the directories and letting you choose the one you want.  It would indeed be better if it filtered the list of directories to not include ones that are not legitimate destinations.  Is THAT the thing you want Groups.io to do?  Or do you want it to react differently when you click on a destination directory?  Do you want there to be a dialog, instead of the pop-up window disappearing like it does now?  I'm just trying to understand what is the actual issue, because the description of "faili(ng) in such a dramatic manner" does not seem to match the reality that I see.

Andy

On Wed, Dec 8, 2021 at 09:36 AM, Andy wrote:

I'm not understanding what you mean by "fail in such a dramatic manner."  If you mean that the pop-up dialog box disappears, that is normal.  If you mean that it did not send you an error message, I guess you might be right about that (but I did not try it).

I have in fact already explained this.

Bruce

I never expected it to "work"...but I didn't think it would fail in such a dramatic manner.

I'm not understanding what you mean by "fail in such a dramatic manner."  If you mean that the pop-up dialog box disappears, that is normal.  If you mean that it did not send you an error message, I guess you might be right about that (but I did not try it).

The normal operation of a "move" is that you click on your choice to move it to, the pop-up box disappears, and the move is completed.

So, I am wondering, what did you expect would happen when you clicked a destination folder?

FYI, I wouldn't really call it a "dialog box" because there is no dialog.  Were you expecting a dialog where it asks you, "Are you sure?" or something of that nature?

Andy

On Tue, Dec 7, 2021 at 09:00 PM, Andy wrote:

Bruce, are you saying that you attempted to move a folder into one of its own subfolders?

As a test, yes.

  I would guess that should not work.

I never expected it to "work"...but I didn't think it would fail in such a dramatic manner.

Bruce

If I click on one of these subfolders as the destination, that entire section of the directory structure collapses and disappears, along with all of its content.

Bruce, are you saying that you attempted to move a folder into one of its own subfolders?  I would guess that should not work.

When you click on a folder in the pop-up dialog box, it completes the move.  The pop-up dialog box should disappear at that point because it's done - except for the fact that you tried an illegal move.

IMO, it's cumbersome having the entire directory structure there all at once.  I wish there was a better way, more interactive.

Andy

Mark -- When I click on the scissors icon for a folder in Files, this activates the Move function, displaying a dialog box with the entire Files directory structure. Included in that dialog are subfolders of the folder I'm trying to move.

If I click on one of these subfolders as the destination, that entire section of the directory structure collapses and disappears, along with all of its content.

It would be better if the displayed directory structure did not include subfolders of the one I clicked on to start the process.

FYI,
Bruce

Thanks, Bruce, you are a lifesaver! I’ll check that out immediately.

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

Forgot to mention: One more piece of the headache is that they’ll often send dozens of attachments and then we have to delete some. There’s more I’m forgetting but you can get the idea…

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

On Mon, Dec 6, 2021 at 03:28 PM, J_Catlady wrote:

So today I found myself wishing for a group setting that forces all messages with attachments to go through moderation.

J -- That already exists.  It's in the Message Formatting settings.

Regards,
Bruce