Date   

locked Re: Editing messages

 


On 11 November 2014 18:41, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:
I've just pushed to the site the ability to edit archived messages. Also, the Edit and Delete buttons now also appear when viewing messages in the Inbox view. Let me know if you see any issues.

​Hi Mark,
I've just confirmed on a dummy group that only originators and moderators can edit messages.
It seemed to work very slickly.
regards,
Ian​



--


locked Editing messages

 

I've just pushed to the site the ability to edit archived messages. Also, the Edit and Delete buttons now also appear when viewing messages in the Inbox view. Let me know if you see any issues.

Thanks,
Mark


locked Re: Calendar is live

Laurence Taylor
 

On 10/11/2014 19:27, Mark Fletcher wrote:
Hi Judy,

I didn't read what Ian and the others said as chastising and I'm sure they
didn't mean it to be taken that way. I absolutely want discussion about
what should and shouldn't be added to Groups.io to take place, especially
about what _shouldn't_ be added. So I would very much like to know what you
think should not be in Groups.io and why.
What shouldn't be added is anything that makes life more dificult for
the users. I'm thinking of things like ambiguous and ineffective search
engines, non-intuitive user profiles (if it's thought useful to have
them at all), user interfaces that depend on heavy use of Javascript (or
CSS) when it can be done easily without.

When you say that Groups.io not
be turned into Facebook 2, I'm not sure I understand. Is that because you
don't think there should be likes, or is it something more? And if it is
likes, can you explain why?
The "like" function can be part of it, but more importantly, there is a
significant difference between a Facebook-like setup (I'm inlcuding
Myspace, Twitter, Tumbler, &c), which is designed round short messages
and usually even sorter responses and only function when connected to
the respective web site, and discussion groups (Yahoo Groups, Google
Groups, MLM, &c), which are intended for long posts and equally long
replies, which may be read and written offline.

While it is possible to combine the two to an extent (by allowing email
acces to the site posts), the result isn't gnerally useful.

--
rgds
LAurence
<><


locked Re: Unmoderated groups - alerting the list-owner about problem posts

Frances
 

I have set my family group on groups.io to 

  •  Posts to this group do not require approval from the moderators.

  • I assumed this meant unmoderated. So no, I wouldn't see every message, at least not right away. I could see many other groups operate this way. It is the way many other newspaper sites work for comments too.

  • Judy F. asked if this could be a setting that could be turned off. Perhaps it should be part of the setting for the group that the list-owner controls. An option.


 

- Fixed the bug with archive messages being collapsed when they shouldn't be
- Moved the permalink 'Link' icon from the bottom of the message to the top
- Fixed a logic problem for groups that only allow moderators to use hashtags


Mark


locked Re: Calendar is live

 

Hi Judy,

I didn't read what Ian and the others said as chastising and I'm sure they didn't mean it to be taken that way. I absolutely want discussion about what should and shouldn't be added to Groups.io to take place, especially about what _shouldn't_ be added. So I would very much like to know what you think should not be in Groups.io and why. When you say that Groups.io not be turned into Facebook 2, I'm not sure I understand. Is that because you don't think there should be likes, or is it something more? And if it is likes, can you explain why?

Thanks,
Mark

On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 11:14 AM, J. Faulkner <jfaulkner44@...> wrote:

Ian and others, I don’t want to turn this into a debate, but I don’t think you really understood what I said.  I have commented several times what a great job Mark is doing with Groups.io and also mentioned that doing the beta was great and smart.   I have said many times if Yahoo Groups had done a beta with users from various types of groups, it would be a lot better than it is now..

 

I didn’t say there wasn’t anything wrong with the old Yahoo Group, I learned a lot by being a member of the Group Owners group that Shal has  and there I learned that it was being kept together in bits and pieces.  What I said others were saying is why make the new Yahoo Groups, i.e. Neo look like other social media. 

 

I am not very technical so I probably look at things from a different perspective.  I understand that with Neo, some members have a hard time using their phones, tablets, even their computers in some cases,  and it’s good that groups.io will allow them to use these devices.  So don’t make it sound as if I am putting groups.io  down because that is far from being true.   I am just asking that it not be a Facebook or Google Groups 2, especially with the likes, etc.    

 

If those of us that don’t agree with something that is being discussed can’t offer our opinion without being chastised, then we are in trouble.   

 

Thanks,

Judy F.

SW Florida - USA

 

From: Ian Gillis [mailto:tessel.bas@...]
Sent: Monday, November 10, 2014 7:06 AM
To: beta@groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] Re: Calendar is live

 

 

On 10 November 2014 07:39, J. Faulkner <jfaulkner44@...> wrote:

I ask this because members on a lot of the groups that I belong to feel that Neo is sort of a copy of Google Groups/Facebook.  That’s the big complaint on the groups now, ‘what was wrong with the old Yahoo Groups’ that it had to be changed to look like the other social media. 

 

Dear Judy,

"What was wrong with the old Yahoo Groups?" - well, even those totally devoted to the old UI must concede that the old Yahoo Groups was so full of patched and buggy heritage code that it needed rewriting. It's a pity that Melissa's lot went about the way they did, instead of a consultative phase that listened to people and incorporated the better features of the old groups and other groups such as Google Groups and FB, together with the introduction of new killer features that perhaps people didn't realise they wanted.

 

I personally am very encouraged by the approach that Mark is taking toward Groups IO. He's clearly got the expertise to create a sympathetic alternative to Yahoo but is using a lot of time that could otherwise be spent coding in listening and replying to people like us who have suffered under Yahoo. I wish him every success in the creation of a group server that can be easily sold even to those most resistant to change..

regards,

Ian

 




--



locked Re: Calendar is live

Judy F.
 

Ian and others, I don’t want to turn this into a debate, but I don’t think you really understood what I said.  I have commented several times what a great job Mark is doing with Groups.io and also mentioned that doing the beta was great and smart.   I have said many times if Yahoo Groups had done a beta with users from various types of groups, it would be a lot better than it is now.

 

I didn’t say there wasn’t anything wrong with the old Yahoo Group, I learned a lot by being a member of the Group Owners group that Shal has  and there I learned that it was being kept together in bits and pieces.  What I said others were saying is why make the new Yahoo Groups, i.e. Neo look like other social media. 

 

I am not very technical so I probably look at things from a different perspective.  I understand that with Neo, some members have a hard time using their phones, tablets, even their computers in some cases,  and it’s good that groups.io will allow them to use these devices.  So don’t make it sound as if I am putting groups.io  down because that is far from being true.   I am just asking that it not be a Facebook or Google Groups 2, especially with the likes, etc.    

 

If those of us that don’t agree with something that is being discussed can’t offer our opinion without being chastised, then we are in trouble.   

 

Thanks,

Judy F.

SW Florida - USA

 

From: Ian Gillis [mailto:tessel.bas@...]
Sent: Monday, November 10, 2014 7:06 AM
To: beta@groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] Re: Calendar is live

 

 

On 10 November 2014 07:39, J. Faulkner <jfaulkner44@...> wrote:

I ask this because members on a lot of the groups that I belong to feel that Neo is sort of a copy of Google Groups/Facebook.  That’s the big complaint on the groups now, ‘what was wrong with the old Yahoo Groups’ that it had to be changed to look like the other social media. 

 

Dear Judy,

"What was wrong with the old Yahoo Groups?" - well, even those totally devoted to the old UI must concede that the old Yahoo Groups was so full of patched and buggy heritage code that it needed rewriting. It's a pity that Melissa's lot went about the way they did, instead of a consultative phase that listened to people and incorporated the better features of the old groups and other groups such as Google Groups and FB, together with the introduction of new killer features that perhaps people didn't realise they wanted.

 

I personally am very encouraged by the approach that Mark is taking toward Groups IO. He's clearly got the expertise to create a sympathetic alternative to Yahoo but is using a lot of time that could otherwise be spent coding in listening and replying to people like us who have suffered under Yahoo. I wish him every success in the creation of a group server that can be easily sold even to those most resistant to change.

regards,

Ian

 




--


locked Re: "Like" for the email-centric (was First Impressions of Groups.io)

 

On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 2:10 AM, Ian Gillis <tessel.bas@...> wrote:

Which brings me to wonder - is the main thrust of Groups IO towards satisfying the email reader, or the webview reader? To me Yahoo is the former, FB is the latter. Or will Groups IO have feet in both camps?

Feet in both camps, with the modification that these days, you have to include the mobile viewer (which we don't really do yet). I don't want Groups.io to ever lose its email groups base and strong emphasis on discussion. But I also want it to be a product of the 21st century.

Mark 
(under the influence of cold medication today)


locked Calendar is live

Linda
 

Hey, wait a minute! ;-) I'm on that short list too.
The ability to edit past posts is on Mark's to-do list.
Linda

--------------------------------------------------
LAurence wrote:

I suspect it's only thee and me that knows this, judging by the number
of FB posts correcting previous typos.


locked Re: Calendar is live

Laurence Taylor
 

On 10/11/2014 14:38, Ian Gillis wrote:

​Oh, and with FB you can edit a post when you spot an error…​
I suspect it's only thee and me that knows this, judging by the number
of FB posts correcting previous typos.


--
rgds
LAurence
<><


locked Re: Calendar is live

David P. Dillard
 

There is also another matter to consider here when making comparisons with Yahoo Groups, Google Groups and Facebook. When is the last time you saw the owner of any of these corporations posting how to use these groups information daily, answering questions and so forth. This is not duplicated in any other group service. The user is basically on their own.



Sincerely,
David Dillard
Temple University
(215) 204 - 4584
jwne@temple.edu

On Mon, 10 Nov 2014, Ian Gillis wrote:

On 10 November 2014 07:39, J. Faulkner <jfaulkner44@embarqmail.com> wrote:
I ask this because members on a lot of the groups that I belong to feel that Neo is sort of a copy of
Google Groups/Facebook.  That’s the big complaint on the groups now, ‘what was wrong with the old Yahoo
Groups’ that it had to be changed to look like the other social media. 
​Dear Judy,
"What was wrong with the old Yahoo Groups?" - well, even those totally devoted to the old UI must concede that the old
Yahoo Groups was so full of patched and buggy heritage code that it needed rewriting. It's a pity that Melissa's lot
went about the way they did, instead of a consultative phase that listened to people and incorporated the better
features​ of the old groups and other groups such as Google Groups and FB, together with the introduction of new killer
features that perhaps people didn't realise they wanted.
I personally am very encouraged by the approach that Mark is taking toward Groups IO. He's clearly got the expertise to
create a sympathetic alternative to Yahoo but is using a lot of time that could otherwise be spent coding in listening
and replying to people like us who have suffered under Yahoo. I wish him every success in the creation of a group
server that can be easily sold even to those most resistant to change.
regards,
Ian
--
______________________________________________________
 tessel.bas@gmail.com or iangillis@iee.org
Site Web http://www.notrevieenfrance.net
Blog http://stecolombedevilleneuve.wordpress.com
Facebook http://www.facebook.com/ian.gillis


locked Re: Calendar is live

David P. Dillard
 

I completely disagree that the IO Groups service now present is a Facebook clone. The aspects that I am using for the group that I have on this server is very much like Yahoo Groups in the way it works. The archive of group messages is searchable and the links to the links to the search are persistent (they can be reused by anyone at any time). Facebook is a search nigbtmare. Yahoo Groups archives are also searchable, just very glitchy and unpredictable in Neo. The archives are arranged in reverse chronological order from the most recent post in both Groups IO and Yahoo Groups. Features beyond posting to the group by email and viewing and using archives in a group service are optional and based on the needs of the user and owners as well as the functionality of the application. These are my views on this matter.


..


Sincerely,
David Dillard
Temple University
(215) 204 - 4584
jwne@temple.edu

On Mon, 10 Nov 2014, J. Faulkner wrote:

Just curious here, will Groups.io be Facebook 2 in disguise or a much better Yahoo Groups?  I ask this because members on
a lot of the groups that I belong to feel that Neo is sort of a copy of Google Groups/Facebook.  That’s the big complaint
on the groups now, ‘what was wrong with the old Yahoo Groups’ that it had to be changed to look like the other social
media.  If all of the various Facebook features are added, why not just join Facebook?
 
I’m sure there will be a lot of nasty comments, but some people don’t join Facebook because they didn’t like it and now it
looks as if another Facebook is being created.   
 
Judy F.
SW Florida - USA
 
From: Chris Leong [mailto:walkraft@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, November 10, 2014 1:18 AM
To: beta@groups.io
Subject: [beta] Re: Calendar is live
 
Oh, I just came up with another integration idea. Maybe the ability to import specific events from Facebook into the
group. Or the ability to import all events from a Facebook group into the Groups.io calendar?


locked Re: Calendar is live

 


On 10 November 2014 13:06, Ian Gillis <tessel.bas@...> wrote:
It's a pity that Melissa's lot went about the way they did

​should read​
 

It's a pity that M
​ar​
issa's lot went about
​it ​
the way they did

​I beg Mrs Meyer's pardon…​
 


​Oh, and with FB you can edit a post when you spot an error…​


locked Re: Calendar is live

 

Dear Judy,

If you wish to critique Facebook/the new Yahoo groups, it might be helpful to focus on the aspects of them you don't like. Like, is it the complexity? 

- Chris


locked Re: Calendar is live

 


On 10 November 2014 07:39, J. Faulkner <jfaulkner44@...> wrote:
I ask this because members on a lot of the groups that I belong to feel that Neo is sort of a copy of Google Groups/Facebook.  That’s the big complaint on the groups now, ‘what was wrong with the old Yahoo Groups’ that it had to be changed to look like the other social media. 

​Dear Judy,

"What was wrong with the old Yahoo Groups?" - well, even those totally devoted to the old UI must concede that the old Yahoo Groups was so full of patched and buggy heritage code that it needed rewriting. It's a pity that Melissa's lot went about the way they did, instead of a consultative phase that listened to people and incorporated the better features​ of the old groups and other groups such as Google Groups and FB, together with the introduction of new killer features that perhaps people didn't realise they wanted.

I personally am very encouraged by the approach that Mark is taking toward Groups IO. He's clearly got the expertise to create a sympathetic alternative to Yahoo but is using a lot of time that could otherwise be spent coding in listening and replying to people like us who have suffered under Yahoo. I wish him every success in the creation of a group server that can be easily sold even to those most resistant to change.

regards,
Ian




--


locked Re: "Like" for the email-centric (was First Impressions of Groups.io)

 


On 9 November 2014 18:36, Frances <travel@...> wrote:
Love the term "read" instead of "like". Or would it be too twee to have "thanks for sharing"?


Frances -
I like "Thanks for sharing" - it covers everything from "Appalling" to "Fantastic". It also implies a degree of appreciation of the post, whether that post is disturbing or heartwarming. But I think that there is a good case for an automatic "Read by XX members" count - in addition to the "Thanks".
Just don't add "Have a nice day".

The person who will be most interested in these counts and plaudits is the originator. So, IMHO, the originator (only) should be presented by a subscript or notification which says "Read by 325" and "Thanked by 2". On the website the latter should have FB-style pull-down with names.

Which brings me to wonder - is the main thrust of Groups IO towards satisfying the email reader, or the webview reader? To me Yahoo is the former, FB is the latter. Or will Groups IO have feet in both camps?

Shal -

I understand and sympathise totally with your instinctive "yuck" reaction to the "likes" - and the like. But I've observed people on my expat group spilling over to FB because a) they feel obliged to write correct English and b) because when they do post and there is no reply, they assume it's because no-one has read the words they have laboured over, or no-one "likes" them.

Three individuals come to mind:
1) Well-built "earth mother" housewife - lovely, generous person with a warm heart, intelligent but of limited education - is totally mortified if any unfeeling grammar Nazi criticises her prose.. She likes FB because she can restrict herself to monosyllabic comments and the posting of photographs of her lovely family.
2) Graduate of the London School of Economics - excellent photographer - but he's dyslexic and stumbles into some horrendous solecisms - he too can restrict himself to short comments and the posting of photos.
3) 85-year old factory manager and engineer - downloads group emails and spends his evenings writing beautifully-crafted, lengthy and helpful prose off-line. He thinks FB is the work of the devil and refuses to have any truck with it.

Needless to say, the first two hardly posted on Yahoo and I missed them, but when I added FB as an alternative they became quite prolific.

You're only a Cretaceous dinosaur - us Triassics really know how to be prejudiced!

regards,
Ian

PS Grammar Nazis please note that I've used English, rather than American-English spellings and usage. Much to the dismay of the Gmail smell chucker!




--


locked Re: Calendar is live

Judy F.
 

Just curious here, will Groups.io be Facebook 2 in disguise or a much better Yahoo Groups?  I ask this because members on a lot of the groups that I belong to feel that Neo is sort of a copy of Google Groups/Facebook.  That’s the big complaint on the groups now, ‘what was wrong with the old Yahoo Groups’ that it had to be changed to look like the other social media.  If all of the various Facebook features are added, why not just join Facebook?

 

I’m sure there will be a lot of nasty comments, but some people don’t join Facebook because they didn’t like it and now it looks as if another Facebook is being created.   

 

Judy F.

SW Florida - USA

 

From: Chris Leong [mailto:walkraft@...]
Sent: Monday, November 10, 2014 1:18 AM
To: beta@groups.io
Subject: [beta] Re: Calendar is live

 

Oh, I just came up with another integration idea. Maybe the ability to import specific events from Facebook into the group. Or the ability to import all events from a Facebook group into the Groups.io calendar?


locked Re: Calendar is live

 

Oh, I just came up with another integration idea. Maybe the ability to import specific events from Facebook into the group. Or the ability to import all events from a Facebook group into the Groups.io calendar?


locked Re: Collapsing of messages

 

Mark,

There is. The little chain link at the bottom right of each message,
after 'View Original', is a permalink.
D'oh! I had taken it to be some odd decoration of the "View Original" link. Should'a hovered.

I was going to suggest that the message date/time be used as the permalink (I've seen that done before), but having an explicit icon is better. Instead I'll suggest that perhaps it belongs up on the top bar with the other information-about-the-message items (sender & date) rather than in the bottom row with actions (Group Reply, Delete Message and View Original).

-- Shal


locked Re: Unmoderated groups - alerting the list-owner about problem posts

Judy F.
 

Mark, is this something that could be turned off?  As I said before, all groups are not created equal and don’t work where a like, dislike or whatever is needed.

 

Thanks,

 

Judy F.

SW Florida - USA

 

From: Mark Fletcher [mailto:markf@corp.groups.io]
Sent: Monday, November 10, 2014 12:47 AM
To: beta@groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] Unmoderated groups - alerting the list-owner about problem posts

 

On Sun, Nov 9, 2014 at 9:07 AM, Frances <travel@...> wrote:

What about a "report comment" or "Flag as inappropriate" button for unmoderated groups? The owner would be notified so he or she could review the post.

 

Interesting. I hadn't thought of such a thing. I'd think that the moderators would be seeing every message as is, so wouldn't need something like that. Am I wrong? Would this be useful?

 

Thanks,

Mark