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moderated #suggestion Allow sponsorship and donation payments without requiring login #suggestion

Mark Murphy
 

Would it be possible to allow payments for sponsorships and donations without requiring a member to login? Many of our members are email only and do not know or care about whether they have an "account" and password. 

This would reduce some "friction" a donor/sponsor who only use email might experience in making a payment. I understand the payment would not be associated with an authenticated member as appears in the activity log now. Perhaps the process could (optionally) ask for an email or other information to identify the donor/sponsor if not logged in.

Thank you.


moderated Re: Question about image processing #misc

 

On Tue, Oct 26, 2021 at 11:22 AM, D R Stinson wrote:
David -
[snip]. If you're using a different palette, that palette may need to be included with the file. You might experiment with that possibility.
 

 Oh, yeah. I forgot to mention this. In a .png file, the palette is actually embedded in the file itself. It (the palette) is optional, and can accommodate up to 48-bit color encoding. I don't think there are any graphics cards around that support color depths beyond 30 bits. The extra  bits (software only) are used to minimize rounding errors in interpolation / smoothing algorithms that use floating point arithmetic, I think.
--
David Bryant
Canyon Lake, Texas
https://t-vog.groups.io/g/main    https://davidcbryant.net


moderated Re: Question about image processing #misc

 

On Tue, Oct 26, 2021 at 02:02 PM, Christos Psarras wrote:

David,

I'm not sure if you embedded those PNGs in your message through email or online, but it seems emailed 256-color/8-bit embeds retain their colorspace encoding but online embeds get upscaled to 16 million colors / 24-bit, so for online embedding that doesn't seem right and it would increase file size. [big snip ...]

I composed the message at the web site. I'll experiment with emailing images instead, sometime. I don't often do that because of minor incompatibilities between the HTML generated by KMail, my email client, and the HTML processor at the web site. These incompatibilities often cause rendering problems in the broadcast message. So I usually use the web site to compose new messages.

Thanks for the information about jpeg compression. That's interesting.
 
--
David Bryant
Canyon Lake, Texas
https://t-vog.groups.io/g/main    https://davidcbryant.net


moderated Re: Question about image processing #misc

 

On Tue, Oct 26, 2021 at 11:22 AM, D R Stinson wrote:
David -
Two possibilities come to mind. Do you have the image size limited to 1024 x 1024 or smaller? Can you convert them to JPG files instead of PNGs?
 
I suspect the system was designed around common JPGs, and PNGs might be confusing it. If you're using a different palette, that palette may need to be included with the file. You might experiment with that possibility.
 
I've used one of several draw programs for image compression, but I've found that in many cases Irfanview does a credible job quickly.
Most of the images I use are screenshots. So the only "limit" on image size is my monitor, which is 1920 x 1080 (often "dumbed down" to 1600 x 900 -- I'm old, and my eyesight is failing). I usually take a shot of just a portion of the screen, so my images are rarely any larger than 1024 x 1024.

I played around with GIMP, the GNU Image Manipulation Program (https://www.gimp.org/). In general, converting a .png file to .jpg format increases the file size by some 100% to 150%. That's for screenshots. If I were processing photographs, .jpg would most likely be the better choice, in terms of file size. But screen shots of web sites usually contain a lot of straight lines and sharp corners, which are more compactly encoded by the .png algorithm. Oh, yeah. JPG files have been around since 1992. But PNG came along in 1997, and software support for the newer format is fairly ubiquitous. I'm sure Mark uses programs that support a great number of file forrmats. For instance, the aforementioned GIMP (free software) supports 40 different file formats, from als to xwd.
 
--
David Bryant
Canyon Lake, Texas
https://t-vog.groups.io/g/main    https://davidcbryant.net


moderated Re: Question about image processing #misc

 

On 2021-10-26 15:02, Christos Psarras via groups.io wrote:
I'm not sure if you embedded those PNGs in your message through email or online, but it seems emailed 256-color/8-bit embeds retain their colorspace encoding but online embeds get upscaled to 16 million colors / 24-bit, so for online embedding that doesn't seem right and it would increase file size.
To clarify, this happens during online posting on embedded PNG images which are bigger than 640 pixels and need to be scaled down.  If 640 or less they stay the same colorspace.

Cheers,
Christos


moderated Re: Question about image processing #misc

 

David,

I'm not sure if you embedded those PNGs in your message through email or online, but it seems emailed 256-color/8-bit embeds retain their colorspace encoding but online embeds get upscaled to 16 million colors / 24-bit, so for online embedding that doesn't seem right and it would increase file size.

But there's also the matter of image compression value when saved to the cloud.  From trial & error, for jpegs at least, it seems 20%-25% is the compression factor used when images get saved on the cloud.  If you send in a jpeg or possibly other compressible formats as well, saved with anything above that, the returned image in the message comes back bigger in file size. (for the same dimensions)

Not to hijack the thread but the interesting thing though, to me at least, is not embedded images but attached images in messages.  Even those get compressed at that cloud compression value so one gets back attached jpegs which are not the same ones as sent in.  (this is for jpegs at least, uncompressed images such as BMPs do come back the same)  For example, an attached 1959x1306 jpeg saved with 5% compression, 1,332kb, comes back with the same dimensions but only 629kb so it was compressed higher when stored on the cloud. I can see embedded images get changed/manipulated but I was under the impression attachments do not get messed with. This may be disconcerting to folks who count on image fidelity or archival quality in their attachments in their messages.  But I guess one should use Photos or Files for archival quality purposes as no image processing takes place in there.

Cheers,
Christos


On 2021-10-26 11:35, David Bryant via groups.io wrote:
Yesterday I posted a message to my group that included two .png image files. The files I uploaded from my hard disk had these characteristics.

Image #1: 1043 x 543 pixels, 51,102 bytes
Image #2: 1011 x 614 pixels, 34,600 bytes

In the archived version of the message on the groups.io web site I find these file statisics.

Image #1: 640 x 327 pixels, 124,301 bytes
Image #2: 640 x 381 pixels, 89,969 bytes
(these images are stored in the Amazon "cloud")

In terms of display area, groups.io shrank the first image by 63.05% and the second by 60.72%. (The two percentages are different because of different aspect ratios.) But the file sizes increased: by 143.24% and 160.03%. respectively.

So here's my question. Why does a lower resolution image take up so much more disk space?

I have a hunch that it relates to color encoding and the program Mark is using to rescale every image that's more than 640 pixels wide. I had gone to some trouble to compress the images using a 256-color palette and 8-bit color codes. I used an open source program called "pngquant" (https://pngquant.org/). I suspect that the program which rescaled the images desstroyed the color palette and reverted the images to 24-bit color codes. Assuming that's what happened, is there an easy way around it? For instance, what if I resized the images to be 640 pixels wide before uploading them to the groups.io servers? Would the image processing algorithm leave them alone? Or would they still get a whole lot bigger? Are the file sizes increased by groups.io software? Or is that a "feature" of the Amazon "cloud"?

I'll do some experimenting to find out (by sending a private message to myself, and not to the whole group). It's not a big deal, so far as I'm concerned. I'm far, far under the 20 GB "free images" threshold for a premium group. Still, for somebody with a lot of stored images. it might make a difference in the amount the group is charged for image storage. People might even appreciate it if image compression via pngquant were offered as an opion on the groups.io web site. Email messages with smaller (in bytes) images would download faster, etc. So I thought I should mention it here.
--
David Bryant
Canyon Lake, Texas
https://t-vog.groups.io/g/main    https://davidcbryant.net


moderated Re: Question about image processing #misc

 

David -
Two possibilities come to mind. Do you have the image size limited to 1024 x 1024 or smaller? Can you convert them to JPG files instead of PNGs?
 
I suspect the system was designed around common JPGs, and PNGs might be confusing it. If you're using a different palette, that palette may need to be included with the file. You might experiment with that possibility.
 
I've used one of several draw programs for image compression, but I've found that in many cases Irfanview does a credible job quickly.
 
Dano
_____________________
 
David Bryant <david@...> writes:

Yesterday I posted a message to my group that included two .png image files. The files I uploaded from my hard disk had these characteristics.

Image #1: 1043 x 543 pixels, 51,102 bytes
Image #2: 1011 x 614 pixels, 34,600 bytes

In the archived version of the message on the groups.io web site I find these file statisics.

Image #1: 640 x 327 pixels, 124,301 bytes
Image #2: 640 x 381 pixels, 89,969 bytes
(these images are stored in the Amazon "cloud")

In terms of display area, groups.io shrank the first image by 63.05% and the second by 60.72%. (The two percentages are different because of different aspect ratios.) But the file sizes increased: by 143.24% and 160.03%. respectively.

So here's my question. Why does a lower resolution image take up so much more disk space?

I have a hunch that it relates to color encoding and the program Mark is using to rescale every image that's more than 640 pixels wide. I had gone to some trouble to compress the images using a 256-color palette and 8-bit color codes. I used an open source program called "pngquant" (https://pngquant.org/). I suspect that the program which rescaled the images desstroyed the color palette and reverted the images to 24-bit color codes. Assuming that's what happened, is there an easy way around it? For instance, what if I resized the images to be 640 pixels wide before uploading them to the groups.io servers? Would the image processing algorithm leave them alone? Or would they still get a whole lot bigger? Are the file sizes increased by groups.io software? Or is that a "feature" of the Amazon "cloud"?

I'll do some experimenting to find out (by sending a private message to myself, and not to the whole group). It's not a big deal, so far as I'm concerned. I'm far, far under the 20 GB "free images" threshold for a premium group. Still, for somebody with a lot of stored images. it might make a difference in the amount the group is charged for image storage. People might even appreciate it if image compression via pngquant were offered as an opion on the groups.io web site. Email messages with smaller (in bytes) images would download faster, etc. So I thought I should mention it here.
--
David Bryant
Canyon Lake, Texas
https://t-vog.groups.io/g/main    https://davidcbryant.net


moderated Question about image processing #misc

 

Yesterday I posted a message to my group that included two .png image files. The files I uploaded from my hard disk had these characteristics.

Image #1: 1043 x 543 pixels, 51,102 bytes
Image #2: 1011 x 614 pixels, 34,600 bytes

In the archived version of the message on the groups.io web site I find these file statisics.

Image #1: 640 x 327 pixels, 124,301 bytes
Image #2: 640 x 381 pixels, 89,969 bytes
(these images are stored in the Amazon "cloud")

In terms of display area, groups.io shrank the first image by 63.05% and the second by 60.72%. (The two percentages are different because of different aspect ratios.) But the file sizes increased: by 143.24% and 160.03%. respectively.

So here's my question. Why does a lower resolution image take up so much more disk space?

I have a hunch that it relates to color encoding and the program Mark is using to rescale every image that's more than 640 pixels wide. I had gone to some trouble to compress the images using a 256-color palette and 8-bit color codes. I used an open source program called "pngquant" (https://pngquant.org/). I suspect that the program which rescaled the images desstroyed the color palette and reverted the images to 24-bit color codes. Assuming that's what happened, is there an easy way around it? For instance, what if I resized the images to be 640 pixels wide before uploading them to the groups.io servers? Would the image processing algorithm leave them alone? Or would they still get a whole lot bigger? Are the file sizes increased by groups.io software? Or is that a "feature" of the Amazon "cloud"?

I'll do some experimenting to find out (by sending a private message to myself, and not to the whole group). It's not a big deal, so far as I'm concerned. I'm far, far under the 20 GB "free images" threshold for a premium group. Still, for somebody with a lot of stored images. it might make a difference in the amount the group is charged for image storage. People might even appreciate it if image compression via pngquant were offered as an opion on the groups.io web site. Email messages with smaller (in bytes) images would download faster, etc. So I thought I should mention it here.
--
David Bryant
Canyon Lake, Texas
https://t-vog.groups.io/g/main    https://davidcbryant.net


moderated Re: renaming file doesn't notify if initial posting didn't #bug

Bruce Bowman
 

On Tue, Oct 26, 2021 at 01:18 AM, Christos Psarras wrote:
Out of curiosity, what is the time threshold that determines whether notifications "lump together" in a single message or go out by themselves?
I believe the window is roughly 5 minutes (ref: https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/25375).

A side effect of this feature is that affected notifications never go out right away...they are always 5 minutes "late", waiting to see if you make another change within the window.

Regards,
Bruce


moderated Re: renaming file doesn't notify if initial posting didn't #bug

Duane
 

On Tue, Oct 26, 2021 at 12:18 AM, Christos Psarras wrote:
Out of curiosity, what is the time threshold that determines whether notifications "lump together" in a single message or go out by themselves?
I believe the latest information is 4-8 minutes, plus your email checking delay.  https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/25552

Duane


moderated Re: renaming file doesn't notify if initial posting didn't #bug

 

Hi Mark,

>>> This has been fixed now.

Out of curiosity, what is the time threshold that determines whether notifications "lump together" in a single message or go out by themselves?  I've noticed that if I do a few things within some minutes those come in a single message, it pays to be fast I guess.

Interestingly, all those single "File Notifications" messages thread together in a single topic.

Cheers,
Christos


moderated Re: renaming file doesn't notify if initial posting didn't #bug

Glenn Glazer
 

On 10/25/2021 10:27, Mark Fletcher wrote:
On Sat, Oct 23, 2021 at 12:45 PM Glenn Glazer <glenn.glazer@...> wrote:
Steps to repro:

1) Upload a file, do not click notify members.
2) Used the update icon to rename the file
3) When doing 2), click Notify Members
4) Afterwards, no one gets a notification, including owners and moderators.

This has been fixed now.

Also, I have added `Notify Members` checkboxes to both the Rename Folder dialog as well as the Move File dialog.

Thanks,
Mark 

Many thanks, Mark.

Best,

Glenn

--
#calcare
PG&E Delenda Est


moderated Re: renaming file doesn't notify if initial posting didn't #bug

 

On Sat, Oct 23, 2021 at 12:45 PM Glenn Glazer <glenn.glazer@...> wrote:
Steps to repro:

1) Upload a file, do not click notify members.
2) Used the update icon to rename the file
3) When doing 2), click Notify Members
4) Afterwards, no one gets a notification, including owners and moderators.

This has been fixed now.

Also, I have added `Notify Members` checkboxes to both the Rename Folder dialog as well as the Move File dialog.

Thanks,
Mark 


moderated Re: Double fwd slash is displayed on the updated file notice email #bug

 

On Sun, Oct 24, 2021 at 3:20 PM Christos Psarras <christos@...> wrote:

I updated an existing file by replacing the file with another one with a different filename.  The updated file notice included double forward slashes in the subject and text:

Sub:
 File //Sample_Folder_2/blank.jpg updated #file-notice


This has been fixed.

Thanks,
Mark 


moderated Re: Change Email addy click vs Enter behavior #misc #bug

 

Andy,

It's the same screen as you went into (main account - Login screen), but pressing Enter without doing anything, does nothing.  Whichever textbox (email address, password, or alias address) has to have the focus as if you're typing in it, and if you press Enter then, it will do whichever action (change email address, change pwd, or add an alias)

A. If you click on the alias box, don't type anything, and press Enter, nothing happens and the screen refreshes.

B. If you click on the password textbox, if you press enter it will go ahead and change the password (or give you an error if nothing is typed in it and you press Enter)

C. If you click on the email address textbox, if you press enter without typign anything, you get an error the "new" address is the same as the old one.  If you do type a different address and press Enter, it does the same thing as if clicking on the "Change Email" button except it will not display the confirmation dialog.

Cheers,
Christos


>>>

Christos, at what point (what screen, webpage, whatever) did this happen?

When I go to my account and the webpage where I can change my email address, there are many other choices on that page.  I would not expect that pressing Enter would select and activate only that one choice, or any choice for that matter.  I would not want a simple "Enter" key to accidentally activate an email change; I want it to require me to click that button.  But maybe I am not looking at the same webpage that you were.


moderated Re: Change Email addy click vs Enter behavior #misc #bug

Andy
 

Christos, at what point (what screen, webpage, whatever) did this happen?

When I go to my account and the webpage where I can change my email address, there are many other choices on that page.  I would not expect that pressing Enter would select and activate only that one choice, or any choice for that matter.  I would not want a simple "Enter" key to accidentally activate an email change; I want it to require me to click that button.  But maybe I am not looking at the same webpage that you were.

Andy


moderated Double fwd slash is displayed on the updated file notice email #bug

 

Hi Mark,

I updated an existing file by replacing the file with another one with a different filename.  The updated file notice included double forward slashes in the subject and text:

Sub:
 File //Sample_Folder_2/blank.jpg updated #file-notice

Body:

 The following files have been updated in the Files area of the Practice-Legacy@Practice-Legacy.groups.io group.

  • //Sample_Folder_2/blank.jpg   [the underlying link is fine]
By: ...

Cheers,
Christos


moderated Change Email addy click vs Enter behavior #misc #bug

 

Hi folks,

This caught me by surprise momentarily but I was changing email addresses on a few test accounts and on one of them without thinking I pressed Enter instead of clicking on the "Change Email" button.  The "Verify Email Change" confirmation dialog did not come up and the page went directly to the "Your login has expired. Please login again" page.  There's nothing in the manual about pressing Enter.  I guess pressing Enter should behave the same as clicking the button?

Cheers,
Christos


moderated Re: Account Merge (and possibly Edit) Problem #bug

 

Andy,

>>> It makes sense to me that nothing would appear in the group's Activity Log, because his account and the group are separate entities.

Actually some main account actions do get logged and show in the group log, i.e. when the user changes their Email address, Name, or Display Name, or deletes their main account, (now also account merge), maybe even more, not sure.  They are getting logged because whatever they changed in their main account also (indirectly) modified their group sub/membership settings/profile as well.

Cheers,
Christos


moderated Re: renaming file doesn't notify if initial posting didn't #bug

Chris Jones
 

On Sun, Oct 24, 2021 at 02:19 PM, Bruce Bowman wrote:
The File Notifications section of your Subscription says "How to be notified when a folder is modified or file is uploaded." [italics added] There is no mention of a notification associated with the Update File activity.
Interesting... It does indeed say that, but anyone updating a Folder is not presented with the opportunity to "Notify Members", while anyone updating a File is.  (As is anyone uploading a new File or Folder.)

Chris

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