Date   

moderated Re: Button Label Clarification for web site reply #suggestion

Mike Hanauer
 

It IS the sender. It is probably the author. FURTHER, "sender" is what you use in many other contexts -- why introduce another inconsistency. Reply to sender is everywhere. And then "Reply to Sender" BUT "Send to Author".  Yuck me thinks.

But, the main point is that if "private" is chosen, and even reclicked, "Send" reverts back to "Reply" for both cases.

    ~Mike


On Thursday, October 7, 2021, 03:37:47 PM EDT, Mike Hanauer <mghanauer@...> wrote:


I think "Sender" is the more recognized.

But, the main point is that if "private" is chosen, and even reclicked, "Send" reverts back to "Reply" for both cases.

    ~Mike


On Thursday, October 7, 2021, 03:32:18 PM EDT, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:


On Thu, Oct 7, 2021 at 12:04 PM Andy Wedge <andy_wedge@...> wrote:

There's also now an inconsistency in the terminology as we have 'Send to Group' but the private message option says 'Reply to Sender'.  If you were just thinking of changing instances of Reply to Send then 'Send to Sender' really doesn't sound good.

Hmmmm. How about 'Send to Author'?

Mark 


moderated Re: Button Label Clarification for web site reply #suggestion

 

I like “send to author”.


On Oct 7, 2021, at 12:32 PM, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:


On Thu, Oct 7, 2021 at 12:04 PM Andy Wedge <andy_wedge@...> wrote:

There's also now an inconsistency in the terminology as we have 'Send to Group' but the private message option says 'Reply to Sender'.  If you were just thinking of changing instances of Reply to Send then 'Send to Sender' really doesn't sound good.

Hmmmm. How about 'Send to Author'?

Mark 

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Button Label Clarification for web site reply #suggestion

Mike Hanauer
 

I think "Sender" is the more recognized.

But, the main point is that if "private" is chosen, and even reclicked, "Send" reverts back to "Reply" for both cases.

    ~Mike


On Thursday, October 7, 2021, 03:32:18 PM EDT, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:


On Thu, Oct 7, 2021 at 12:04 PM Andy Wedge <andy_wedge@...> wrote:

There's also now an inconsistency in the terminology as we have 'Send to Group' but the private message option says 'Reply to Sender'.  If you were just thinking of changing instances of Reply to Send then 'Send to Sender' really doesn't sound good.

Hmmmm. How about 'Send to Author'?

Mark 


moderated Re: Button Label Clarification for web site reply #suggestion

 

On Thu, Oct 7, 2021 at 12:04 PM Andy Wedge <andy_wedge@...> wrote:

There's also now an inconsistency in the terminology as we have 'Send to Group' but the private message option says 'Reply to Sender'.  If you were just thinking of changing instances of Reply to Send then 'Send to Sender' really doesn't sound good.

Hmmmm. How about 'Send to Author'?

Mark 


moderated Re: Button Label Clarification for web site reply #suggestion

Andy Wedge
 

On Thu, Oct 7, 2021 at 06:12 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
I've changed the `Reply` word to `Send`
If you start a reply and then hit the Private button twice it changes back to 'Reply to Group'.

There's also now an inconsistency in the terminology as we have 'Send to Group' but the private message option says 'Reply to Sender'.  If you were just thinking of changing instances of Reply to Send then 'Send to Sender' really doesn't sound good.

Andy

 


moderated Re: Trying to add member notice with existing type and name fails to issue warning, does nothing, navigates poorly #bug

 

Mark,

Thanks. All of that makes perfect sense! I suspected something like that, except for the creation timestamp. 

A couple of suggestions at this point:

1. Figure out whether, and when, Active should be the default. Should it be consistently one way or the other, or should it be the default only if this is the first message of that type being created, etc? In particular, I would not continue to have it be the default in the cases where multiple active noticed are allowed. I think most users will not understand that if they create what (to them) is simply a new, or alternative, welcome notice, for example, it actually gets ADDED to any existing active one(s) and ALL are sent out as welcome messages. (I love the ability to do this. But it came as a shock to me.) Minimum, I would  add some explanation to the Active checkbox in those cases.

2. What is the purpose of a name, if it’s not an identifier, something that sets the notice apart from others of its same type? It makes no sense to me to allow multiple notices of the same type with identical names, and I would have the system reject those.


On Oct 7, 2021, at 9:58 AM, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:


Hi J,

On Thu, Oct 7, 2021 at 8:55 AM J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

I am very sorry to tell you this, but there are now other weirdnesses! I just tried again to create a new Banned notice in my test group. Here is what happened:

1. (a) There are now TWO Banned notices, listed as at the same time (same timestamp, a couple of minutes ago), one with name "Banned Member" (which was the correct name - the name I left in place as the default) and another with name "Banned."
    (b) Despite the (alleged) two new notices, there is only log entry for my having created a new notice.

2. My original, pre-test Banned notice, with "name not set," and creation date a long time ago, has disappeared.

What happened is that member notices really shouldn't have an empty name ("name not set"). That bug was fixed last December. When you added the new member notice, we went in and updated the old member notice, giving it a name ("Banned"). That changed the updated date on the notice (which was labeled 'Date' on the Member Notices page, but I've now changed that to 'Updated'). Confused? Make sense?

 
3. (a) The default, upon creation of the message, was that the Active box was checked. This is different from yesterday, when I reported the bug. At that time, it defaulted to unchecked.
    (b) Yet despite the default, both "new" notices were created as not active.

I just fixed this bug.

Thanks,
Mark 

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Button Label Clarification for web site reply #suggestion

 

Hi All,

After looking at what Gmail does, I've changed the `Reply` word to `Send` for the various reply button combos (ie it's now `Send to Group`).

Hope this helps.
Mark

On Thu, Oct 7, 2021 at 5:37 AM Duane <txpigeon@...> wrote:
On Thu, Oct 7, 2021 at 07:17 AM, Chris Jones wrote:
A single person not understanding what is in front of them does not suggest that non - understanding of these particular functions is widespread.
It would also depend on whether an individual had read the section of the Members Manual relating to how to reply.  I don't get too excited about suggestions like this when the information is readily available.  Little tweaks can be useful, but are often suggested because many don't want to be bothered reading the manuals.

Duane


moderated Re: Trying to add member notice with existing type and name fails to issue warning, does nothing, navigates poorly #bug

 

Hi J,

On Thu, Oct 7, 2021 at 8:55 AM J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

I am very sorry to tell you this, but there are now other weirdnesses! I just tried again to create a new Banned notice in my test group. Here is what happened:

1. (a) There are now TWO Banned notices, listed as at the same time (same timestamp, a couple of minutes ago), one with name "Banned Member" (which was the correct name - the name I left in place as the default) and another with name "Banned."
    (b) Despite the (alleged) two new notices, there is only log entry for my having created a new notice.

2. My original, pre-test Banned notice, with "name not set," and creation date a long time ago, has disappeared.

What happened is that member notices really shouldn't have an empty name ("name not set"). That bug was fixed last December. When you added the new member notice, we went in and updated the old member notice, giving it a name ("Banned"). That changed the updated date on the notice (which was labeled 'Date' on the Member Notices page, but I've now changed that to 'Updated'). Confused? Make sense?

 
3. (a) The default, upon creation of the message, was that the Active box was checked. This is different from yesterday, when I reported the bug. At that time, it defaulted to unchecked.
    (b) Yet despite the default, both "new" notices were created as not active.

I just fixed this bug.

Thanks,
Mark 


moderated Re: Trying to add member notice with existing type and name fails to issue warning, does nothing, navigates poorly #bug

 

On Thu, Oct 7, 2021 at 08:38 AM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
monthly reminders.
I think I've been MIA. I never knew we had "monthly reminder" notices! That and multiple active welcome messages is going to make my life much easier.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Trying to add member notice with existing type and name fails to issue warning, does nothing, navigates poorly #bug

 

On Thu, Oct 7, 2021 at 08:37 AM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
I think I have fixed this. Please check it and let me know.
Mark,

I am very sorry to tell you this, but there are now other weirdnesses! I just tried again to create a new Banned notice in my test group. Here is what happened:

1. (a) There are now TWO Banned notices, listed as at the same time (same timestamp, a couple of minutes ago), one with name "Banned Member" (which was the correct name - the name I left in place as the default) and another with name "Banned."
    (b) Despite the (alleged) two new notices, there is only log entry for my having created a new notice.

2. My original, pre-test Banned notice, with "name not set," and creation date a long time ago, has disappeared.

3. (a) The default, upon creation of the message, was that the Active box was checked. This is different from yesterday, when I reported the bug. At that time, it defaulted to unchecked.
    (b) Yet despite the default, both "new" notices were created as not active.

The good news is that the navigation is fixed.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Trying to add member notice with existing type and name fails to issue warning, does nothing, navigates poorly #bug

 

On Wed, Oct 6, 2021 at 7:17 PM Duane <txpigeon@...> wrote:

For all the types I tested, any other than Welcome can only have one active (or none in the case of Message to Member). 

All member notice types can have only one active, with two exceptions: the welcome message and monthly reminders.

Thanks,
Mark 


moderated Re: Trying to add member notice with existing type and name fails to issue warning, does nothing, navigates poorly #bug

 

Hi J,

On Wed, Oct 6, 2021 at 8:09 PM J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:
Ok, here is a confirmed, reproducible bug, with all the details: In my test group, I have a current Banned Member notice, with "name not set." I try to add another Banned Member notice with name "Banned Member." The system lets me create the notice (with, by the way, "Active" not checked by default - this is inconsistent with adding Welcome notices, where "Active" is the default) and it lets me click on "Add Notice" at the bottom. The log logs the creation of the notice. But (1) the notice does not actually get added, and (2) after clicking on "Add Notice," I'm taken not back to the list of notices but to my list of groups, complete outside the group in question.

I think I have fixed this. Please check it and let me know.

Thanks,
Mark 


moderated Re: Button Label Clarification for web site reply #suggestion

Duane
 

On Thu, Oct 7, 2021 at 07:17 AM, Chris Jones wrote:
A single person not understanding what is in front of them does not suggest that non - understanding of these particular functions is widespread.
It would also depend on whether an individual had read the section of the Members Manual relating to how to reply.  I don't get too excited about suggestions like this when the information is readily available.  Little tweaks can be useful, but are often suggested because many don't want to be bothered reading the manuals.

Duane


moderated Re: Button Label Clarification for web site reply #suggestion

Mike Hanauer
 

A couple of thoughts, Chris:
  1. A single person REPORTED the problem. After much dialog with that person, It is clear to me that it can, and therefore should, be improved.
  2. I believe if an app requires use of documentation for understanding, it is due to die. 

AllTheBest.

    ~Mike


On Thursday, October 7, 2021, 08:28:43 AM EDT, Chris Jones via groups.io <chrisjones12@...> wrote:


On Thu, Oct 7, 2021 at 01:17 PM, I wrote:
A single person not understanding what is in front of them does not suggest that non - understanding of these particular functions is widespread.
Further to the above the steps required to reply to a post (either to the group or only to the sender of the message) are clearly set out in Para 7.3.3 of the pdf version of the Members Manual.

Chris


moderated Re: Button Label Clarification for web site reply #suggestion

Chris Jones
 

On Thu, Oct 7, 2021 at 01:17 PM, I wrote:
A single person not understanding what is in front of them does not suggest that non - understanding of these particular functions is widespread.
Further to the above the steps required to reply to a post (either to the group or only to the sender of the message) are clearly set out in Para 7.3.3 of the pdf version of the Members Manual.

Chris


moderated Re: Button Label Clarification for web site reply #suggestion

Chris Jones
 

On Thu, Oct 7, 2021 at 01:05 PM, Mike Hanauer wrote:
I think if an extra word or two adds clarity or insight, it is well worth while.
Impossible to argue against that, but given that your original post read I had a person who was confused by needing to hit "Reply" (to compose message) and then hit "Reply to Group". As a result, he never sent his message then in this case it isn't entirely clear that it is necessary. A single person not understanding what is in front of them does not suggest that non - understanding of these particular functions is widespread.

Chris  


moderated Re: Button Label Clarification for web site reply #suggestion

Mike Hanauer
 

I think if an extra word or two adds clarity or insight, it is well worth while. 

    ~Mike


On Thursday, October 7, 2021, 03:11:53 AM EDT, Andy Wedge <andy_wedge@...> wrote:


On Wed, Oct 6, 2021 at 09:30 PM, Mike Hanauer wrote:
If the second button were changed from "Reply to Group" to "Send Reply to Group" or at least Send something, that would be clearer.
I generally don't like lots of text on buttons so I wouldn't be a fan of adding extra words anyway. Adding extra text just takes up screen space and that could make the mobile site and recently released app less visually appealing. If a simple icon can be found to show the function then the words are far less important and it also makes Groups.io more accessible to those who do not speak/read English (and foreign language support has been requested many times).  I'm sure many of us know the meaning of these icons from the MS Office suite without the need for words at all  .

Andy


moderated Re: "Override: not moderated" does not work when using moderated hashtags #bug

Marina
 

Just checked it on my group. It works!
Many many thanks, Mark.

Marina


moderated Re: Button Label Clarification for web site reply #suggestion

Andy Wedge
 

On Wed, Oct 6, 2021 at 09:30 PM, Mike Hanauer wrote:
If the second button were changed from "Reply to Group" to "Send Reply to Group" or at least Send something, that would be clearer.
I generally don't like lots of text on buttons so I wouldn't be a fan of adding extra words anyway. Adding extra text just takes up screen space and that could make the mobile site and recently released app less visually appealing. If a simple icon can be found to show the function then the words are far less important and it also makes Groups.io more accessible to those who do not speak/read English (and foreign language support has been requested many times).  I'm sure many of us know the meaning of these icons from the MS Office suite without the need for words at all  .

Andy


moderated Re: Trying to add member notice with existing type and name fails to issue warning, does nothing, navigates poorly #bug

 

Ok, here is a confirmed, reproducible bug, with all the details: In my test group, I have a current Banned Member notice, with "name not set." I try to add another Banned Member notice with name "Banned Member." The system lets me create the notice (with, by the way, "Active" not checked by default - this is inconsistent with adding Welcome notices, where "Active" is the default) and it lets me click on "Add Notice" at the bottom. The log logs the creation of the notice. But (1) the notice does not actually get added, and (2) after clicking on "Add Notice," I'm taken not back to the list of notices but to my list of groups, complete outside the group in question.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

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