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moderated Re: add detail "new member moderated" to log entries for posts by NMM member @suggestion #suggestion

 

On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 12:23 PM J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:
When an NMM member posts a message, the log entry says "requiring approval because the member is moderated." It could be more helpful to say "requiring approval because the member is new-member-moderated." Mods would know, or be reminded, of why the user is moderated; trying to piece together later history in the case of problems might be easier; etc.

Done. It will only apply to new activity log entries, however.

Cheers,
Mark 


moderated Re: Record Moderator activity regarding banning domains in the Activity Log #suggestion

 

On Thu, Sep 16, 2021 at 4:21 AM Andy Wedge <andy_wedge@...> wrote:

I noticed that adding or removing domains to/from the banned list is not recorded in the Activity Log. Can we do that?

Done.

Cheers,
Mark 


moderated add detail "new member moderated" to log entries for posts by NMM member @suggestion #suggestion

 

When an NMM member posts a message, the log entry says "requiring approval because the member is moderated." It could be more helpful to say "requiring approval because the member is new-member-moderated." Mods would know, or be reminded, of why the user is moderated; trying to piece together later history in the case of problems might be easier; etc.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Count mod-edited approval as an approved message #suggestion

 

Mark,

It also happened to one member of my group, but it's practically ancient history now and would be difficult to resurrect. Nevertheless, I went through the member's history just now to see if I could piece it together and send you her info as well. I couldn't, but that process led me to an independent suggestion, which I will post separately as a suggestion to avoid confusion: It seems that when NMM members' posts are approved, the log entry just says "because the user is moderated." It doesn't specify that the user is "new member moderated." I think it could be helpful, in future possible situations (including bug reports and resurrecting the history), to record that detail in the log.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: File list defaults #suggestion

Don Pottenger
 

I would second that suggestion. When the default file listing changed from folders first to just an alphabetical list (regardless of file type or folder) I found it confusing. I think the problem comes from the different ways the Mac (i.e. Finder) displays contents .vs. the PC (File Explorer) which by default lists folders first and then files alphabetically. Being a PC based person I dislike the current default listing purely by alphabet.

My $.02


moderated Re: Icon display consistency issue when setting a topic to both locked and moderated #bug

 

Since this is getting very muddy: I think that the original argument fby Christos for wanting to display both icons - namely, consistency with other multiple statuses - is invalid bedause Locked and Moderated have a unique relationship to each other. And I think that his second argument for both icons - namely, to let moderators know that even though they can post to a locked topic, their posts will be moderated, while correct, is weak and doesn't trump possible confusion on the part of non-mod group members who see both icons. And I think that Duane's point that many or most non-mod users won't be confused by seeing both icons because they don't even notice the icons at all is weaker still.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Count mod-edited approval as an approved message #suggestion

 

Andy,

On Sat, Sep 18, 2021 at 9:31 PM Andy <AI.egrps+io@...> wrote:
Checking the Activity Log, ...

  • Yesterday, a co-mod approved a message "via email", and the log does not show that his posting status changed.  I had to change the posting status later (and approve two new messages sent by the same member).

  • 3 days ago, the same co-mod approved a message "via email", and the log shows two results, for both changing the posting status and approving the message.

Same moderator.  Same method of approval (via email).  Different days.  Groups.io handled them differently.

I think it's a random bug.

Please send me off-list the email addresses of the members involved and the subjects of the emails, and I'll investigate.

Thanks,
Mark 


moderated Re: Icon display consistency issue when setting a topic to both locked and moderated #bug

 

On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 10:48 AM, Christos Psarras wrote:
No, that wasn't the argument, after all mods can always post to locked topics regardless. 
That is not correct, if you mean that moderators' messages to a locked topic are not moderated. In fact, you yourself wrote this:
"

>>> Why? A locked topic does not accept further posts irrespective of any moderation status.

Not a 100% correct statement; from regular users, yes it doesn't, but it still accepts messages from admins just fine.  The difference is that if also moderated, the message goes into pending, but if not it sails through."

And *that* bolded statement is correct. Moderators' messages will be moderated in moderated topics UNLESS the mod is also marked "P" (overried: can post). So your argument (bolded statement) for displaying both icons seems, or seemed at that point, to be that it allows moderators to know that the topic is also moderated (in addition to being locked) to give them a heads up about their own posts. And that is the only valid argument, in my opinion. Your original argument, which you now restate (moving target?;):
"The argument was that the icon display is (visually) acting inconsistently compared to the other icons' display."

is not really accurate IMO. This is a very different situation from two icons/settings equal in the hierarchy, such as Locked and Sticky. Those don't have any dependence on each other.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Icon display consistency issue when setting a topic to both locked and moderated #bug

 

On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 10:45 AM, Andy wrote:
If I hover my mouse over one, what do I see?  Nothing.
That is actually a very good point, tooltips can be very helpful to folks.  One of the mods (who reads online) in one of my groups sent me this when I told them I first moderated that particular topic:
 

>>> I now know what that balance scale icon means before the subject line of the message (in the Web interface).
 

In my reply I pointed him to the manual's badge & icon pages.

Cheers,
Christos


moderated Re: Icon display consistency issue when setting a topic to both locked and moderated #bug

 

>>> The argument for having both is that mods can post to locked topics. That seems a weak (and accidental) argument.

No, that wasn't the argument, after all mods can always post to locked topics regardless. 

The argument was that the icon display is (visually) acting inconsistently compared to the other icons' display.

Now if you want to argue that my POV was from a mod perspective, I guess it has merit ... I mean one can say that they moderated a topic for whatever reason, then decided to lock it, but because the icon doesn't display they miss that it's also moderated so when they email-send in a reply later-on to tell folks the topic is now locked, they are left wondering what happened, and they have to go and visit online to figure things out and eventually do a facepalm... :)

Cheers,
Christos


moderated Re: What does "Banned Domains" actually mean or do? #misc

 

On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 7:58 AM Andy <AI.egrps+io@...> wrote:
I think I have convinced myself that "Banned Domains" does nothing.

I have banned a few domains that send only spam.  When I check the Activity Log for "Message rejected from banned domain", there is nothing in the log.  And we continue to see messages sent to the group from those domains.

We reject messages from non-subscribers to groups that allow posts from non-subscribers that come from banned domains.

I think your group is not configured to allow posts from non-subscribers?

Thanks,
Mark 


moderated Re: File list defaults #suggestion

Andy
 

I feel like we got off-track by talking about Infinite Scroll.

Is there any chance of adding a user-defined default order for listing Files?

Andy


moderated Re: What does "Banned Domains" actually mean or do? #misc

Andy
 

On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 11:10 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
 It definitely does something.

Interesting.

But obviously not what I thought it would do.

Andy


moderated Re: Icon display consistency issue when setting a topic to both locked and moderated #bug

 

On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 07:45 AM, Andy wrote:
If I hover my mouse over one, what do I see?  Nothing.  I wait.  I hear crickets.
That doesn't make them useless. That just makes them laconic. :-)
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: What does "Banned Domains" actually mean or do? #misc

 

On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 07:58 AM, Andy wrote:
I think I have convinced myself that "Banned Domains" does nothing.
It definitely does *something*. Whether all of what it does is perfect I have no idea. I do know that I banned the domain of a user I never wanted to see again in my group. and when he tried to join my group, he received a message "You can't join this group from that domain" (not exact words, I don't remember exactly). I know because he contacted me after that to complain, saying he wanted to join the group. (Long story, he's now back in and a newly valued member, has cleaned up his act etc.) Anyway, I remember being upset by the fact that he found out he was banned, because I had banned his domain. When you just ban an individual email address, they're not explicitly informed of the banning (unless your group has an active "banned" message, which mine doesn't). The fact that they're not informed has allowed me to test all kinds of technical scenarios by temporarily banning members (and then unbanning them). Banning a domain acts totally differently. It definitely does something.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: What does "Banned Domains" actually mean or do? #misc

Andy
 

I think I have convinced myself that "Banned Domains" does nothing.

I have banned a few domains that send only spam.  When I check the Activity Log for "Message rejected from banned domain", there is nothing in the log.  And we continue to see messages sent to the group from those domains.

Hence, my conclusion.

I guess you should remove the non-working "Banned Domains" feature from Groups.io.  Either that, or make it do something.

(I should say that these spam messages themselves don't really concern me.  They are not group members so the messages don't reach us.  They just clutter up our Activity Log.  Given the fact that we can ban a domain, I'd like to think that the feature actually does something.  We can ban individual email addresses too, and I know that works because we can see its effect in the log; but not with domains.)

Andy


moderated Re: Icon display consistency issue when setting a topic to both locked and moderated #bug

Andy
 

Speaking as a groups.io user (not moderator), I want to present the argument that the icons are useless anyway.

If I hover my mouse over one, what do I see?  Nothing.  I wait.  I hear crickets.  I move on.

If the user interface forces me to find a user-manual that I probably didn't know existed, then read through pages and pages of it, just to figure out what the icon means, then clearly it is not something the managers wanted me to know, and I'm not going to bother.  Therefore, those icons are just meaningless decoration to clutter our screens.

There.  I've said it.  My point is, the icons will not mean anything to all but 0.1% of the people using groups.io.

Now if you gave it mouse-over text so that the ordinary group user could maybe decipher them, or a pop-up if you click on them, then I might think otherwise.  But maybe that was the point -- to make them meaningless to all members other than Moderators.

Andy


moderated Re: Icon display consistency issue when setting a topic to both locked and moderated #bug

 

True that some don’t pay attention. But it still seems wrong to have both. The argument for having both is that mods can post to locked topics. That seems a weak (and accidental) argument.


On Sep 22, 2021, at 3:56 AM, Duane <txpigeon@...> wrote:

On Tue, Sep 21, 2021 at 11:04 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
not to display two icons which seem contradictory to group members, just so that mods will know that THEIR posts to the topic will go through moderation
I suspect that very few members pay any attention to the icons.  I know mine don't, unless it's one of the mods.  As long as the Reply button is gone when it's locked, I don't see that it would be a big problem to also have the moderated icon.

Duane

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Icon display consistency issue when setting a topic to both locked and moderated #bug

Duane
 

On Tue, Sep 21, 2021 at 11:04 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
not to display two icons which seem contradictory to group members, just so that mods will know that THEIR posts to the topic will go through moderation
I suspect that very few members pay any attention to the icons.  I know mine don't, unless it's one of the mods.  As long as the Reply button is gone when it's locked, I don't see that it would be a big problem to also have the moderated icon.

Duane


moderated Re: Icon display consistency issue when setting a topic to both locked and moderated #bug

 

On Tue, Sep 21, 2021 at 11:54 AM, Christos Psarras wrote:

>>> Why? A locked topic does not accept further posts irrespective of any moderation status.

Not a 100% correct statement; from regular users, yes it doesn't, but it still accepts messages from admins just fine.  The difference is that if also moderated, the message goes into pending, but if not it sails through.

It was only recently that locked topics became postable by mods (courtesy of strong argument here and eventual implementation by Mark). It makes more sense to me not to display two icons which seem contradictory to group members, just so that mods will know that THEIR posts to the topic will go through moderation.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

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