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moderated Re: Count mod-edited approval as an approved message #suggestion

 

Andy,

On Sat, Sep 18, 2021 at 9:31 PM Andy <AI.egrps+io@...> wrote:
Checking the Activity Log, ...

  • Yesterday, a co-mod approved a message "via email", and the log does not show that his posting status changed.  I had to change the posting status later (and approve two new messages sent by the same member).

  • 3 days ago, the same co-mod approved a message "via email", and the log shows two results, for both changing the posting status and approving the message.

Same moderator.  Same method of approval (via email).  Different days.  Groups.io handled them differently.

I think it's a random bug.

Please send me off-list the email addresses of the members involved and the subjects of the emails, and I'll investigate.

Thanks,
Mark 


moderated Re: Icon display consistency issue when setting a topic to both locked and moderated #bug

 

On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 10:48 AM, Christos Psarras wrote:
No, that wasn't the argument, after all mods can always post to locked topics regardless. 
That is not correct, if you mean that moderators' messages to a locked topic are not moderated. In fact, you yourself wrote this:
"

>>> Why? A locked topic does not accept further posts irrespective of any moderation status.

Not a 100% correct statement; from regular users, yes it doesn't, but it still accepts messages from admins just fine.  The difference is that if also moderated, the message goes into pending, but if not it sails through."

And *that* bolded statement is correct. Moderators' messages will be moderated in moderated topics UNLESS the mod is also marked "P" (overried: can post). So your argument (bolded statement) for displaying both icons seems, or seemed at that point, to be that it allows moderators to know that the topic is also moderated (in addition to being locked) to give them a heads up about their own posts. And that is the only valid argument, in my opinion. Your original argument, which you now restate (moving target?;):
"The argument was that the icon display is (visually) acting inconsistently compared to the other icons' display."

is not really accurate IMO. This is a very different situation from two icons/settings equal in the hierarchy, such as Locked and Sticky. Those don't have any dependence on each other.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Icon display consistency issue when setting a topic to both locked and moderated #bug

 

On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 10:45 AM, Andy wrote:
If I hover my mouse over one, what do I see?  Nothing.
That is actually a very good point, tooltips can be very helpful to folks.  One of the mods (who reads online) in one of my groups sent me this when I told them I first moderated that particular topic:
 

>>> I now know what that balance scale icon means before the subject line of the message (in the Web interface).
 

In my reply I pointed him to the manual's badge & icon pages.

Cheers,
Christos


moderated Re: Icon display consistency issue when setting a topic to both locked and moderated #bug

 

>>> The argument for having both is that mods can post to locked topics. That seems a weak (and accidental) argument.

No, that wasn't the argument, after all mods can always post to locked topics regardless. 

The argument was that the icon display is (visually) acting inconsistently compared to the other icons' display.

Now if you want to argue that my POV was from a mod perspective, I guess it has merit ... I mean one can say that they moderated a topic for whatever reason, then decided to lock it, but because the icon doesn't display they miss that it's also moderated so when they email-send in a reply later-on to tell folks the topic is now locked, they are left wondering what happened, and they have to go and visit online to figure things out and eventually do a facepalm... :)

Cheers,
Christos


moderated Re: What does "Banned Domains" actually mean or do? #misc

 

On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 7:58 AM Andy <AI.egrps+io@...> wrote:
I think I have convinced myself that "Banned Domains" does nothing.

I have banned a few domains that send only spam.  When I check the Activity Log for "Message rejected from banned domain", there is nothing in the log.  And we continue to see messages sent to the group from those domains.

We reject messages from non-subscribers to groups that allow posts from non-subscribers that come from banned domains.

I think your group is not configured to allow posts from non-subscribers?

Thanks,
Mark 


moderated Re: File list defaults #suggestion

Andy
 

I feel like we got off-track by talking about Infinite Scroll.

Is there any chance of adding a user-defined default order for listing Files?

Andy


moderated Re: What does "Banned Domains" actually mean or do? #misc

Andy
 

On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 11:10 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
 It definitely does something.

Interesting.

But obviously not what I thought it would do.

Andy


moderated Re: Icon display consistency issue when setting a topic to both locked and moderated #bug

 

On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 07:45 AM, Andy wrote:
If I hover my mouse over one, what do I see?  Nothing.  I wait.  I hear crickets.
That doesn't make them useless. That just makes them laconic. :-)
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: What does "Banned Domains" actually mean or do? #misc

 

On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 07:58 AM, Andy wrote:
I think I have convinced myself that "Banned Domains" does nothing.
It definitely does *something*. Whether all of what it does is perfect I have no idea. I do know that I banned the domain of a user I never wanted to see again in my group. and when he tried to join my group, he received a message "You can't join this group from that domain" (not exact words, I don't remember exactly). I know because he contacted me after that to complain, saying he wanted to join the group. (Long story, he's now back in and a newly valued member, has cleaned up his act etc.) Anyway, I remember being upset by the fact that he found out he was banned, because I had banned his domain. When you just ban an individual email address, they're not explicitly informed of the banning (unless your group has an active "banned" message, which mine doesn't). The fact that they're not informed has allowed me to test all kinds of technical scenarios by temporarily banning members (and then unbanning them). Banning a domain acts totally differently. It definitely does something.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: What does "Banned Domains" actually mean or do? #misc

Andy
 

I think I have convinced myself that "Banned Domains" does nothing.

I have banned a few domains that send only spam.  When I check the Activity Log for "Message rejected from banned domain", there is nothing in the log.  And we continue to see messages sent to the group from those domains.

Hence, my conclusion.

I guess you should remove the non-working "Banned Domains" feature from Groups.io.  Either that, or make it do something.

(I should say that these spam messages themselves don't really concern me.  They are not group members so the messages don't reach us.  They just clutter up our Activity Log.  Given the fact that we can ban a domain, I'd like to think that the feature actually does something.  We can ban individual email addresses too, and I know that works because we can see its effect in the log; but not with domains.)

Andy


moderated Re: Icon display consistency issue when setting a topic to both locked and moderated #bug

Andy
 

Speaking as a groups.io user (not moderator), I want to present the argument that the icons are useless anyway.

If I hover my mouse over one, what do I see?  Nothing.  I wait.  I hear crickets.  I move on.

If the user interface forces me to find a user-manual that I probably didn't know existed, then read through pages and pages of it, just to figure out what the icon means, then clearly it is not something the managers wanted me to know, and I'm not going to bother.  Therefore, those icons are just meaningless decoration to clutter our screens.

There.  I've said it.  My point is, the icons will not mean anything to all but 0.1% of the people using groups.io.

Now if you gave it mouse-over text so that the ordinary group user could maybe decipher them, or a pop-up if you click on them, then I might think otherwise.  But maybe that was the point -- to make them meaningless to all members other than Moderators.

Andy


moderated Re: Icon display consistency issue when setting a topic to both locked and moderated #bug

 

True that some don’t pay attention. But it still seems wrong to have both. The argument for having both is that mods can post to locked topics. That seems a weak (and accidental) argument.


On Sep 22, 2021, at 3:56 AM, Duane <txpigeon@...> wrote:

On Tue, Sep 21, 2021 at 11:04 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
not to display two icons which seem contradictory to group members, just so that mods will know that THEIR posts to the topic will go through moderation
I suspect that very few members pay any attention to the icons.  I know mine don't, unless it's one of the mods.  As long as the Reply button is gone when it's locked, I don't see that it would be a big problem to also have the moderated icon.

Duane

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Icon display consistency issue when setting a topic to both locked and moderated #bug

Duane
 

On Tue, Sep 21, 2021 at 11:04 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
not to display two icons which seem contradictory to group members, just so that mods will know that THEIR posts to the topic will go through moderation
I suspect that very few members pay any attention to the icons.  I know mine don't, unless it's one of the mods.  As long as the Reply button is gone when it's locked, I don't see that it would be a big problem to also have the moderated icon.

Duane


moderated Re: Icon display consistency issue when setting a topic to both locked and moderated #bug

 

On Tue, Sep 21, 2021 at 11:54 AM, Christos Psarras wrote:

>>> Why? A locked topic does not accept further posts irrespective of any moderation status.

Not a 100% correct statement; from regular users, yes it doesn't, but it still accepts messages from admins just fine.  The difference is that if also moderated, the message goes into pending, but if not it sails through.

It was only recently that locked topics became postable by mods (courtesy of strong argument here and eventual implementation by Mark). It makes more sense to me not to display two icons which seem contradictory to group members, just so that mods will know that THEIR posts to the topic will go through moderation.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Icon display consistency issue when setting a topic to both locked and moderated #bug

 

I think the current display protocol is correct. Even though internally a topic may be both locked and moderated, what that really means is that it is locked, and that if and when it becomes unlocked, it reverts to moderated. It is not really both at the same time. "Moderated" has no meaning if the topic is locked (i.e., can't be posted to), and having both icons would make no sense to group members. It is a completely different situation from Locked and Sticky, which can (meaningfully) exist at the same time, internally AND externally.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Icon display consistency issue when setting a topic to both locked and moderated #bug

 

Chris,

>>> Why? A locked topic does not accept further posts irrespective of any moderation status.

Not a 100% correct statement; from regular users, yes it doesn't, but it still accepts messages from admins just fine.  The difference is that if also moderated, the message goes into pending, but if not it sails through.

 

>>> a topic can be Moderated or it can be Locked, but it cannot be both at the same time.

Wait, how can you say that when one can set the topic to both?  Try it and you'll see, moderate a topic and moderated icon shows up.  Then lock it, moderated icon disappears and gets replaced by the locked icon.  Topic is now both locked and moderated but only the locked icon shows up.  Unlock it, locked icon goes away and gets replaced by moderated icon.

This works differently than the sticky icon which "appends" to any existing constraint/icon.

 

>>> I would argue that having both Locked and Moderated flags would be a source of confusion.

I personally don't see how it would, when the system itself allows one to set it to both.  If nothing else, to me it's a visual reminder that I have set that topic to both constraints.

Cheers,
Christos

 


moderated Re: Calendar Reminders #bug

Michael Pavan
 

Hi Andy,
On 09/21/2021 3:33 AM Andy Wedge <andy_wedge@...> wrote:
 
 
On Tue, Sep 21, 2021 at 04:14 AM, Michael Pavan wrote:
The MO 2021-09-20 11am "Message Approval require" notice was sent, but a Moderator approved it (before I got to it) thinking it would be sent, rather than posted to the Messages archive and not sent to members (as there is no verbiage in the notice saying what 'Approval' means.
I'm sensing confusion on your Moderators part. Approval of a message is surely simple and it means that the message is posted to the message archive at least.
Yes, it confusing to not have the "Message Approval required" email notice fail to spell out what the consequences of Approval are, especially when there are Settings that make Approval counter-intuitive. 
 
As an owner, you can set the no-email option on a hashtag to stop a message being emailed out
Yes, as Owner this Setting is selected to prevent Hashtags from being perpetrated, as there is no "OFF" switch for them, however the Calendar's design does not allow any WORK AROUND that is 'fool proof'.
and members can opt how to receive messages (or not) by their subscription settings and/or muting hashtags.
Yes, members have many options.
My goal is to have simple, uncluttered Reminders sent of in-person gatherings of amateur (mostly non-tech savvy) musicians (who are somewhat email competent, but avoid the website as something that is confusing and intimidating to them).
 
-Put in a simple toggle to "Allow / not Allow" all Hashtags or 2 toggles: one for automated 'system' hashtags and another for manual 'human-added' hashtags. Or at least spell out what the consequences of Approval, or Rejection by email is in the "Message Approval require" notices
Is this a suggestion or a bug?
I suppose it could/should really be both.
I didn't want the #bug to be overlooked among criticism of a #suggestion, so I only #hashtagged it as a #bug, believing that the #hashtag is supposed to focus what the post is about.
 
The #bug is that no "Message Approval required" notice was sent, and I thought I should post so that it was known, and could be fixed to prevent future (non)occurrences.
 
Yes, you do point out that explaining the context reveals that a suggestion is also in order. I had thought about also adding a #suggestion hashtag to the subject line, but failed to do that.
 
I'm not a texter (neither are virtually all members of all my groups) and do not like the graffiti-esque appearance of #hashtags cluttering Subject lines, so I'm not really comfortable with being a perpetrator of them, but since [beta] wants them used I'm trying.
 
Cheers,
Michael


moderated Re: Looks good. One thought.... #suggestion

Chris Jones
 

On Sun, Sep 19, 2021 at 07:32 PM, rich hurd wrote:
Logging out is sometimes a chore.  If there was a way to “switch hats” as it weee
Firstly your query might have been better directed towards either Group_Help or the Group Managers Forum, but here goes...

It isn't entirely clear from your post but my reading of it is that your two subscriptions are set up using two different email addresses, meaning that you actually have two separate accounts with Groups.io.

Unless there is a good reason why this should be so I would suggest merging the accounts into one; once done that would obviate any need to log out of one account so that you access the other.

To Merge Accounts see the Members Manual in the Help Centre.

Chris


moderated Re: The Groups.io app is now live for iOS and Android #update

Derek Milliner
 

On Tue, Sep 21, 2021 at 07:31 AM, Andy Wedge wrote:
or bring everything back to the main beta group?
And if so, would want the #app, #ios, #android hashtags added for the group?


moderated Re: Calendar Reminders #bug

Andy Wedge
 

On Tue, Sep 21, 2021 at 04:14 AM, Michael Pavan wrote:
The MO 2021-09-20 11am "Message Approval require" notice was sent, but a Moderator approved it (before I got to it) thinking it would be sent, rather than posted to the Messages archive and not sent to members (as there is no verbiage in the notice saying what 'Approval' means.
I'm sensing confusion on your Moderators part. Approval of a message is surely simple and it means that the message is posted to the message archive at least. As an owner, you can set the no-email option on a hashtag to stop a message being emailed out and members can opt how to receive messages (or not) by their subscription settings and/or muting hashtags.

-Put in a simple toggle to "Allow / not Allow" all Hashtags or 2 toggles: one for automated 'system' hashtags and another for manual 'human-added' hashtags. Or at least spell out what the consequences of Approval, or Rejection by email is in the "Message Approval require" notices
Is this a suggestion or a bug?

Andy

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