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moderated Re: moderation icon doesn't show up on individual messages in a topic moderated via a hashtag #bug

 

Yes, they are, as you put it, entry points into the same feature. The problem is that one is misnamed. Easy fix.


On Aug 23, 2021, at 3:15 PM, Andy <AI.egrps+io@...> wrote:

One might even wonder why someone would use "Edit Subject" to add a Hashtag to a topic.  Can't you just add a Hashtag?

Of course we know that Hashtags are part of the subject line, which in turn is a property of the topic.

I think the point I'm making is that there is one menu for editing topic properties.  That menu happens to include editing the subject line, which in turn happens to include Hashtags.

If there were separate menus before, for editing parts of the topic properties, I don't recall having seen them.  To me, I think there was only one menu.  Whether you select "Topic Properties" or "Edit Subject" or maybe something else, those are just entry points into the same menu.  You said this was a new feature, but I think it isn't.  Are you asking that the Topic Properties menu should be split up into separate menus?

Andy

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: moderation icon doesn't show up on individual messages in a topic moderated via a hashtag #bug

Andy
 

One might even wonder why someone would use "Edit Subject" to add a Hashtag to a topic.  Can't you just add a Hashtag?

Of course we know that Hashtags are part of the subject line, which in turn is a property of the topic.

I think the point I'm making is that there is one menu for editing topic properties.  That menu happens to include editing the subject line, which in turn happens to include Hashtags.

If there were separate menus before, for editing parts of the topic properties, I don't recall having seen them.  To me, I think there was only one menu.  Whether you select "Topic Properties" or "Edit Subject" or maybe something else, those are just entry points into the same menu.  You said this was a new feature, but I think it isn't.  Are you asking that the Topic Properties menu should be split up into separate menus?

Andy


moderated Re: moderation icon doesn't show up on individual messages in a topic moderated via a hashtag #bug

 

Andy,

I think our messages might have crossed. The problem is that I'm using the "edit subject" feature.  That implies you're only going to edit the subject line. It's possible the problem is just one of terminology. (Going outside this draft right now to check it again...here comes the red warning! lol...and yes, it came up!) Ok, yes, I think it's a terminology problem. Instead of "edit subject" it should say "edit topic properties" or whatever.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: moderation icon doesn't show up on individual messages in a topic moderated via a hashtag #bug

Andy
 

... (2) it's not clear whether the options are to be applied to the topic or to the tag itself. It is confusing.

It wasn't confusing to me, but that's because I saw it as the "general topic properties edit menu".  I didn't get to that menu by asking to add a hashtag and nothing else, so I would not wonder if the other options applied to the tag itself.  To me, it's clear that I am editing the topic properties.  YMMV.

I might wonder whether the Moderate/Locked/Sticky choices override the tag, or vice-versa.  But haven't needed to worry about that.  (Was that a concern?)

Andy


moderated Re: moderation icon doesn't show up on individual messages in a topic moderated via a hashtag #bug

 

Andy,

Yes, I'm adding a hashtag to an existing topic. I am using the dropdown at the bottom of the topic within the topics list, and choosing "edit subject," and from there, "add tag." (You're right that there's no separate "add tag" feature.) The issue is that "edit subject" should not bring up all the attribute options for the topic itself. You're just editing the subject line.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: moderation icon doesn't show up on individual messages in a topic moderated via a hashtag #bug

Andy
 

J, how are you adding a hashtag to an existing topic?

The (only) way I do it, is by selecting Topic Properties, which always brings up the choices to edit the Subject line, Add Tags, select Moderate, Lock topic, make Sticky, change the Reply To, or Delete the whole topic.  You are just being presented with the menu of choices for the Topic Properties.

Is there another way to say "I want to add a hashtag, and nothing else?"  I think if there is another route to get to the menu to change or add a hashtag, it's just another entry point into that same menu of topic properties.

I thought it always worked this way (well, for the last couple of years since I've been doing this).

This doesn't address your question (2).

Andy


moderated Re: Improved draft saving #update

 

And, I can make it happen. I composed a draft in my test group and went into this group. The warning flashed immediately. It's consistent and entirely reproducible for me.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Improved draft saving #update

 

Interesting. It’s happening consistently for me, but only when I go out of the draft to do something else. Happened twice today, 100% of the times (two) that I composed a draft and went outside of it. Are you going outside the draft, into another page or group? 


On Aug 23, 2021, at 1:59 PM, Peter Cook <peterscottcook@...> wrote:

Just fyi, this was occurring maybe a week ago. Now I can't make it happen anymore.

Pete

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Improved draft saving #update

Peter Cook
 

Just fyi, this was occurring maybe a week ago. Now I can't make it happen anymore.

Pete


moderated Re: Improved draft saving #update

 

A last word on this: this is totally consistent and reproducible. Start a message, go outside of it to check on something somewhere else, and the red warning will flash for a split second.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: moderation icon doesn't show up on individual messages in a topic moderated via a hashtag #bug

 

Something has changed, and I'm not sure whether this happened very recently and/or in response to this thread: As of now (not sure when this started), when you add a hashtag to an existing topic, there are options to moderate, lock, make sticky, and set "reply to" on the topic, regardless of whatever attributes the tag already had. In other words, simply selecting "add tag" after selecting "edit topic" also brings up these options. I don't understand why this is happening but I've tested and reproduced it. My objections to this new feature(?) are (1) the user is not asking for anything but adding a hashtag - why are these other options on the thread coming up at the same time? and worse, (2) it's not clear whether the options are to be applied to the topic or to the tag itself. It is confusing.

That said, a moderated tag, when added to a topic, now causes the topic to show the moderation icon. That's the good news.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Improved draft saving #update

 

Mark,

Just a heads up that this behavior is still there. The red warning appears and then immediately disappears when I compose a draft and exit for any reason (and then come back).
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Can no longer ban inactive accounts #update

 

On Sun, Aug 22, 2021 at 06:16 AM, Duane wrote:
The mention of this was over 5 years ago, so I don't hold anyone responsible for not remembering. ;>)  The earliest mention seems to be in https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/2989, while the specific definition is at https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/5183
Duane, I think you should hold the title "Beta Group Historian.":)
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Can no longer ban inactive accounts #update

Chris Jones
 

On Sun, Aug 22, 2021 at 02:16 PM, Duane wrote:
I don't believe these are explained in the Owners Manual, so maybe Nina can add them to the section about "Downloading your group’s member list" when she finishes her travels.
I would have mentioned this had you not beaten me to it. (Thanks!)

IMHO there are other related "omissions" but I'll flag those up as a reply to your post on "docs".

Chris


moderated Re: Can no longer ban inactive accounts #update

Duane
 

On Sun, Aug 22, 2021 at 07:08 AM, Chris Jones wrote:
Deactivated might have given me more of a clue, but "inactive"? I don't think I would ever have come to the correct conclusion.
The mention of this was over 5 years ago, so I don't hold anyone responsible for not remembering. ;>)  The earliest mention seems to be in https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/2989, while the specific definition is at https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/5183.  I do see that Deactivated might be easier to understand.  I don't believe these are explained in the Owners Manual, so maybe Nina can add them to the section about "Downloading your group’s member list" when she finishes her travels.

Duane


moderated Re: Can no longer ban inactive accounts #update

Andy
 

FWIW, I agree with Chris that "inactive" was a poor choice of words.  But I guess we are stuck with it.

Did Chris want to change the subject line of this topic, or the error message that is displayed?  If the latter, I wonder if Mark can't just augment the error message without changing the official designation?

Andy


moderated Re: Can no longer ban inactive accounts #update

Chris Jones
 

On Sun, Aug 22, 2021 at 12:56 PM, Duane wrote:
For those that may not be familiar with this,
Until your post that included me. :)
I believe Mark uses the Inactive parameter of a member record to disable the account site wide, so that's why he titled it this way.  If you download your member list, in the column labeled "User Status" [AKA site wide status], you'll see this option shown.
Yes it is there. However, although I might have noticed that previously I did not pay it any particular attention. Had I stopped and thought about it then I don't think I would have concluded that it means that the A/C had been disabled. Deactivated might have given me more of a clue, but "inactive"? I don't think I would ever have come to the correct conclusion.

Chris


moderated Re: Can no longer ban inactive accounts #update

Duane
 

On Sat, Aug 14, 2021 at 10:31 AM, Chris Jones wrote:
1: Change the subject line of this topic to Can no longer ban inactive disabled accounts
For those that may not be familiar with this, I believe Mark uses the Inactive parameter of a member record to disable the account site wide, so that's why he titled it this way.  If you download your member list, in the column labeled "User Status" [AKA site wide status], you'll see this option shown.

Duane


moderated Re: Use bounce tracking on private replies #suggestion

 

Bruce,

Private replies sent via the web interface could conceivably be
logged; ...
Correct, that is the scenario I tested.

and yet, I wonder if creating a discrepancy of this sort -- based only
on how the message was sent -- could become a source of future
confusion.
I believe that the utility of having this information vastly outweighs any possible confusion over why it is unavailable for private replies by email.

Easy enough to explain that any delivery failure when replying privately by email will be reported to you by your email service's postmaster (often called the "mailer daemon").

I could be mistaken, but I was under the impression that all bounces
are logged.
Sadly, no.

I believe all message posts are tracked for bounces, but not all notices or other things are. For example, email notices forwarded to mods and owners in response to a message to the +owner address are not bounce tracked, and I think those too should be.

Shal


moderated Re: Can no longer ban inactive accounts #update

Andy
 

I'm pretty sure this one was directed at me.
 
Mark, I feel it would be helpful to understand why make this change?  Apparently there was something bad about what I did.  Maybe it messes things up for the servers, or it conflicts with your vision and you don't want it to happen.
 
For me, it's uncomfortable when someone we banned disappears from our list of Banned Members.  Once banned, I feel they ought to stay on the list, unless someone consciously un-bans them.  I get it that you banned them too and that it effectively overrides our group-specific ban, but it doesn't feel right knowing that they are not banned from our group anymore.
 
And then, we have the new situation where a banned member modified his settings in our group after being banned.  He should not have been able to do that if he was still on our Banned Members list.
 
For me, on the moderator end of things, this makes me want to be doubly sure banned members stay on our list of Banned Members.  Once off that list, I feel like we lose control over whether or not they stay banned.  Though I'd like to trust that your list is permanent, I don't know this, so I feel like I want to see their name back on my list of Banned Members.
 
I guess I'm just wondering why it's necessary to make this change.  Not trying to convince you otherwise, and not expressing anger.  Just puzzled.
 
Andy
 
 

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