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moderated Re: moderation icon doesn't show up on individual messages in a topic moderated via a hashtag #bug

Andy
 

... But I just checked, and what do you know? "Edit subject" is nowhere to be found. ... So the owners manual is fine. ...

Clearly, it isn't.  If the Owners Manual doesn't describe how to use it, then it's missing something.

Andy


moderated Re: moderation icon doesn't show up on individual messages in a topic moderated via a hashtag #bug

 

On Mon, Aug 23, 2021 at 03:38 PM, Andy wrote:
Don't assume everyone knows they are really just words in the Subject line (which also have magical properties once there).
I am not assuming anything of the sort lol. But there is only one way to add a hashtag to a topic, and that is to edit the topic.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: moderation icon doesn't show up on individual messages in a topic moderated via a hashtag #bug

 

On Mon, Aug 23, 2021 at 03:33 PM, Andy wrote:
It is a problem of perception,
I strongly disagree. Two identical features should not have different names in different places of the same piece of software. This is a simple name issue and needs to be fixed.

At some point one has to assume some level of skill or acquired knowledge, which in this case means owners/moderators.
 We are only talking about owners/moderators here because only owners/moderators can edit a topic in any way (subject line or otherwise).

At some point, you need the Owners Manual.
Well, I've gotten by so far without it. But I just checked, and what do you know? "Edit subject" is nowhere to be found. Only "edit topic properties." So the owners manual is fine. It's the software that needs to change one tiny little name.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: moderation icon doesn't show up on individual messages in a topic moderated via a hashtag #bug

Andy
 

If Hashtags were not those things in the Subject line, then there would be another way to do them.

Hashtags have special properties.  Don't assume everyone knows they are really just words in the Subject line (which also have magical properties once there).

Andy


moderated Re: moderation icon doesn't show up on individual messages in a topic moderated via a hashtag #bug

Andy
 

... The problem is that one is misnamed. Easy fix.

Until someone comes along and says, "Hey, how come I can't edit the subject line anymore?"

:-)

It is a problem of perception, and the problem is you can't make everyone happy.  Now that you know that editing the subject lets you also add tags and also change other properties, you know that, so you're all set.

And what about the moderator who wants to add hashtags, and doesn't know that hashtags are not only a topic property but done by editing the subject?  I guess the menu choice could list every option, but that's a pain.

At some point one has to assume some level of skill or acquired knowledge, which in this case means owners/moderators.  At some point, you need the Owners Manual.

Andy


moderated Re: moderation icon doesn't show up on individual messages in a topic moderated via a hashtag #bug

 

On Mon, Aug 23, 2021 at 03:15 PM, Andy wrote:
One might even wonder why someone would use "Edit Subject" to add a Hashtag to a topic.  Can't you just add a Hashtag?
How else would you do it? Not sure what you're talking about....
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: moderation icon doesn't show up on individual messages in a topic moderated via a hashtag #bug

 

Yes, they are, as you put it, entry points into the same feature. The problem is that one is misnamed. Easy fix.


On Aug 23, 2021, at 3:15 PM, Andy <AI.egrps+io@...> wrote:

One might even wonder why someone would use "Edit Subject" to add a Hashtag to a topic.  Can't you just add a Hashtag?

Of course we know that Hashtags are part of the subject line, which in turn is a property of the topic.

I think the point I'm making is that there is one menu for editing topic properties.  That menu happens to include editing the subject line, which in turn happens to include Hashtags.

If there were separate menus before, for editing parts of the topic properties, I don't recall having seen them.  To me, I think there was only one menu.  Whether you select "Topic Properties" or "Edit Subject" or maybe something else, those are just entry points into the same menu.  You said this was a new feature, but I think it isn't.  Are you asking that the Topic Properties menu should be split up into separate menus?

Andy

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: moderation icon doesn't show up on individual messages in a topic moderated via a hashtag #bug

Andy
 

One might even wonder why someone would use "Edit Subject" to add a Hashtag to a topic.  Can't you just add a Hashtag?

Of course we know that Hashtags are part of the subject line, which in turn is a property of the topic.

I think the point I'm making is that there is one menu for editing topic properties.  That menu happens to include editing the subject line, which in turn happens to include Hashtags.

If there were separate menus before, for editing parts of the topic properties, I don't recall having seen them.  To me, I think there was only one menu.  Whether you select "Topic Properties" or "Edit Subject" or maybe something else, those are just entry points into the same menu.  You said this was a new feature, but I think it isn't.  Are you asking that the Topic Properties menu should be split up into separate menus?

Andy


moderated Re: moderation icon doesn't show up on individual messages in a topic moderated via a hashtag #bug

 

Andy,

I think our messages might have crossed. The problem is that I'm using the "edit subject" feature.  That implies you're only going to edit the subject line. It's possible the problem is just one of terminology. (Going outside this draft right now to check it again...here comes the red warning! lol...and yes, it came up!) Ok, yes, I think it's a terminology problem. Instead of "edit subject" it should say "edit topic properties" or whatever.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: moderation icon doesn't show up on individual messages in a topic moderated via a hashtag #bug

Andy
 

... (2) it's not clear whether the options are to be applied to the topic or to the tag itself. It is confusing.

It wasn't confusing to me, but that's because I saw it as the "general topic properties edit menu".  I didn't get to that menu by asking to add a hashtag and nothing else, so I would not wonder if the other options applied to the tag itself.  To me, it's clear that I am editing the topic properties.  YMMV.

I might wonder whether the Moderate/Locked/Sticky choices override the tag, or vice-versa.  But haven't needed to worry about that.  (Was that a concern?)

Andy


moderated Re: moderation icon doesn't show up on individual messages in a topic moderated via a hashtag #bug

 

Andy,

Yes, I'm adding a hashtag to an existing topic. I am using the dropdown at the bottom of the topic within the topics list, and choosing "edit subject," and from there, "add tag." (You're right that there's no separate "add tag" feature.) The issue is that "edit subject" should not bring up all the attribute options for the topic itself. You're just editing the subject line.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: moderation icon doesn't show up on individual messages in a topic moderated via a hashtag #bug

Andy
 

J, how are you adding a hashtag to an existing topic?

The (only) way I do it, is by selecting Topic Properties, which always brings up the choices to edit the Subject line, Add Tags, select Moderate, Lock topic, make Sticky, change the Reply To, or Delete the whole topic.  You are just being presented with the menu of choices for the Topic Properties.

Is there another way to say "I want to add a hashtag, and nothing else?"  I think if there is another route to get to the menu to change or add a hashtag, it's just another entry point into that same menu of topic properties.

I thought it always worked this way (well, for the last couple of years since I've been doing this).

This doesn't address your question (2).

Andy


moderated Re: Improved draft saving #update

 

And, I can make it happen. I composed a draft in my test group and went into this group. The warning flashed immediately. It's consistent and entirely reproducible for me.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Improved draft saving #update

 

Interesting. It’s happening consistently for me, but only when I go out of the draft to do something else. Happened twice today, 100% of the times (two) that I composed a draft and went outside of it. Are you going outside the draft, into another page or group? 


On Aug 23, 2021, at 1:59 PM, Peter Cook <peterscottcook@...> wrote:

Just fyi, this was occurring maybe a week ago. Now I can't make it happen anymore.

Pete

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Improved draft saving #update

Peter Cook
 

Just fyi, this was occurring maybe a week ago. Now I can't make it happen anymore.

Pete


moderated Re: Improved draft saving #update

 

A last word on this: this is totally consistent and reproducible. Start a message, go outside of it to check on something somewhere else, and the red warning will flash for a split second.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: moderation icon doesn't show up on individual messages in a topic moderated via a hashtag #bug

 

Something has changed, and I'm not sure whether this happened very recently and/or in response to this thread: As of now (not sure when this started), when you add a hashtag to an existing topic, there are options to moderate, lock, make sticky, and set "reply to" on the topic, regardless of whatever attributes the tag already had. In other words, simply selecting "add tag" after selecting "edit topic" also brings up these options. I don't understand why this is happening but I've tested and reproduced it. My objections to this new feature(?) are (1) the user is not asking for anything but adding a hashtag - why are these other options on the thread coming up at the same time? and worse, (2) it's not clear whether the options are to be applied to the topic or to the tag itself. It is confusing.

That said, a moderated tag, when added to a topic, now causes the topic to show the moderation icon. That's the good news.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Improved draft saving #update

 

Mark,

Just a heads up that this behavior is still there. The red warning appears and then immediately disappears when I compose a draft and exit for any reason (and then come back).
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Can no longer ban inactive accounts #update

 

On Sun, Aug 22, 2021 at 06:16 AM, Duane wrote:
The mention of this was over 5 years ago, so I don't hold anyone responsible for not remembering. ;>)  The earliest mention seems to be in https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/2989, while the specific definition is at https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/5183
Duane, I think you should hold the title "Beta Group Historian.":)
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Can no longer ban inactive accounts #update

Chris Jones
 

On Sun, Aug 22, 2021 at 02:16 PM, Duane wrote:
I don't believe these are explained in the Owners Manual, so maybe Nina can add them to the section about "Downloading your group’s member list" when she finishes her travels.
I would have mentioned this had you not beaten me to it. (Thanks!)

IMHO there are other related "omissions" but I'll flag those up as a reply to your post on "docs".

Chris

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