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moderated Re: Banned from groups.io? #misc

 

Hello,

On Thu, Aug 19, 2021 at 7:44 AM David Bryant <david@...> wrote:
Today when I checked on activity in my group I saw a new message. Two of them, actually.

xxx@yyy was banned from Groups.io

Two of my members have been rather unceremoniously removed from my group. This has never happened before. They don't even show up on the list of past members (I pay $20 a month for premium features).

Here's what happened. Member A, as you mentioned, sent a spam message yesterday to the group. Member B reported that message to Linode, our hosting service. As a matter of course, we are required to act upon these complaints or Linode turns off access to our site. 

I investigated and disabled both accounts. I disabled Member A's account, because they sent the spam. I disabled Member B's account, because they reported the message to Linode, and not to you, the group owner.

I have re-enabled Member A's account and resubscribed them to your group (along with the Override: Moderated setting). If Member B updates his SpamCop settings so that they don't automatically report group messages to Linode, I will re-enable their account as well.

Please let me know if you have any questions.

Mark


moderated Banned from groups.io? #misc

 

Today when I checked on activity in my group I saw a new message. Two of them, actually.

xxx@yyy was banned from Groups.io

Two of my members have been rather unceremoniously removed from my group. This has never happened before. They don't even show up on the list of past members (I pay $20 a month for premium features).

Does anyone know anything about this? I understand you can do anything you want to with the web site, Mark. But frankly, I'm annoyed. It seems to me that if these people have done something wrong I should have been involved in any decision to kick them out of my group. I'm pretty sure one of these people caught a computer virus yesterday, or maybe the day before. I had to deal with some spam she sent (inadvertently) just yesterday. The other person who was kicked out hasn't posted anything since December, 2020. Why would an inactive member get kicked out? I suppose that maybe he had joined more than one groups.io group, and did a no-no somewhere else on groups.io..

Why did this happen?  What can I do about it? Can I get some sort of explanation about why these people were banned from groups.io? I vet the members of my rgroup pretty carefully. All of them are, or once were,  unpaid volunteers in the TaxAide program run by the AARP Foundation. In other words, they're solid and sensible senior citizens. I can't imagine why groups.io wants to ban them.
--
David Bryant
Canyon Lake, Texas
https://t-vog.groups.io/g/main    https://davidcbryant.net


moderated #Suggestion Check boxes in activity log? #suggestion

Wendy Archer
 

How big an ask can I try asking!

When I go to the Activity log section, what would be so useful would be to know which activities I've already seen and taken note of, and at which position in the activity log (or filtered logs) I need to start focussing.  I need, for instance, to keep a membership database of my society group current, so I need to keep track of address changes, those that have left, etc.

Would it be possible for the rows in the activity log to have a tick box column to their left, for instance?

Thank you.

Wendy


moderated Re: moderation icon doesn't show up on individual messages in a topic moderated via a hashtag #bug

 

On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 08:22 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
if a topic is moderated via a hashtag
I should have narrowed this to "a hashtag that explicitly moderates the topic"; not hashtags that moderate topics via durations, for example. That appears to work fine. (In fact, too well - you can never unmoderate those. But that's another issue.)
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Can no longer ban inactive accounts #update

Chris Jones
 

On Sat, Aug 14, 2021 at 03:04 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
If an email address has been permanently disabled by me, you can no longer ban it.
Mark; can I make a couple of suggestions?

1: Change the subject line of this topic to Can no longer ban inactive disabled accounts, and
2: Add a Disabled flag to affected email addresses. Even taking which most people will never encounter at face value it would help any group owner / moderators know that action has been taken "at a higher level".

Chris


moderated Re: Banned member is still a member?? #bug

 

On Fri, Aug 13, 2021 at 11:11 PM, Andy wrote:
I have several Past Members with "Banned" in the Past Members list.

I think that if you Ban someone and then, later, Un-ban them, the "Banned" entry is replaced by the "Un-banned" entry.
I checked again this morning and there is some kind of weirdness here. In general, "banned" does not show up in my Past Members list. Only "unbanned," even if the member was banned subsequently. The member I mentioned last night, on whom I was running my test by repeatedly banning and unbanning, has about five "unbanned" entries in the Past Members list and zero "Banned" entries. In my entire Past Members list, although many of those members were banned, only one shows a "Banned" entry in the Past Members list. So I'm not sure whether to categorize this as a separate bug or just another weirdness, but I would describe it this way:

Banned members do not get "Banned" entries in the Past Members list. They do get an "Unbanned" entry every time they are unbanned, but "Banned" does not show up even if the last action on them was to ban them. (There is at least one exception - since I do find, among hundreds of past members in the list, one "Banned" entry. But I'm not sure what the exception is.)
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Banned member is still a member?? #bug

 

On Fri, Aug 13, 2021 at 11:47 PM, Andy wrote:
Apparently, "remove from the group" or "unsubscribe" really means "Un-ban"
My experience is that the banned members list acts almost like a members list, in that members on the banned list are considered "members" of it. That was worse awhile back, and some things got changed upon request to fix the weirdness, but there still seem to be remnants of that. IIRC it had to do with there being "member records" internally for banned addresses. But that's all I can remember of it at this point.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Can no longer ban inactive accounts #update

 

Hi All,

I just made a minor change, which most people will never encounter. If an email address has been permanently disabled by me, you can no longer ban it. Attempting to do so will now display an error message.

Thanks,
Mark
(making changes over vacation, what could possibly go wrong?)


moderated Re: Banned member is still a member?? #bug

 

Andy,

If you send me the email address off-list I can look it up. My guess is that you banned the address and that some time later I disabled the account permanently because it was the spammer, and perhaps that  was logged incorrectly or confusingly. 

Thanks,
Mark


moderated Re: Banned member is still a member?? #bug

 

“Unbanned” is not replacing “banned” in the past members list in the case of the member I was using for my testing. She remains banned but that is not showing up in Past Members, nor is the banning of close to 100% of my banned members. I’m at a loss to understand most of this, at this point.,,


On Aug 13, 2021, at 11:11 PM, Andy <AI.egrps+io@...> wrote:


... But all I see in the Past Members list for her are the "unbanned" actions. There's only one "banned" in my entire Past Members list. So are you sure it's not that the member was banned by groups.io?

I have several Past Members with "Banned" in the Past Members list.

I think that if you Ban someone and then, later, Un-ban them, the "Banned" entry is replaced by the "Un-banned" entry.  I have one address that I experimented with, and that's what it has.  So in that single respect, it looks like groups.io does a little clean-up in the Past Members list and it is not just a list of prior actions.

If I remember right, when members were banned by groups.io, their address disappears totally from the Past Members list.  As if they never existed.  But their record remains in the Activity Log, so they were not 100% wiped clean.

Andy

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Banned member is still a member?? #bug

Andy
 

Not all Groups.io activity takes place in real time so there may well be asynchronous processes running here.

But actions separated by hours, or days ... getting mixed up ...

Andy


moderated Re: Banned member is still a member?? #bug

Andy Wedge
 

On Sat, Aug 14, 2021 at 07:11 AM, Andy wrote:
it looks like groups.io does a little clean-up in the Past Members list and it is not just a list of prior actions.
Not all Groups.io activity takes place in real time so there may well be asynchronous processes running here.

Andy


moderated Re: Banned member is still a member?? #bug

Andy
 

Hmm.  I don't know if the following is more about the problem, or if I just misunderstand how it works.

Let's say address abc@xyz is on the Banned Members list.  Once there, it seems there are two ways to also "Remove" that member -- whatever "Remove" means.  Read on.

(A)  Click on the line for abc@xyz in the list of Banned Members.  At the bottom of the page, there is a bright red button "Remove".  Click that.  A dialog box says "Are you sure you wish to remove this member from the group?"  Click Yes.  Poof --> They are no longer on the Banned list!

(B)  Check the checkbox next to abc@xyz in the list of Banned Members.  At the bottom, click the blue button "Actions", and select "Remove".  Now, the dialog box says "Unsubscribe this 1 member?"  Click Yes.  Poof --> They are no longer on the Banned list!

Pardon my French, but WTF?

This suggests at least two big questions:

(1)  If someone is Banned, are they not also Removed from the group?  Is it really necessary to also Remove them, after Banning them?  They already are not on the Members List.  Are they still members even though not on the Members List?

(2)  When answering Yes to "remove from the group", why are they suddenly no longer Banned?  What's up with that?!?  Does this mean they really are not Banned and can re-join the group?

Apparently, "remove from the group" or "unsubscribe" really means "Un-ban".  WTF?

My head hurts.  (Up too late.)

Andy


moderated Re: Improved draft saving #update

Andy Wedge
 

On Sat, Aug 14, 2021 at 05:53 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
There is *definitely* still a bug in the "error saving your draft" banner.
I'm seeing this all the time when I post a message and when I posted a message to my group a few minutes ago, I saw two red banners for a second.  It doesn't look good.

Andy


moderated Re: Banned member is still a member?? #bug

Andy
 

... But all I see in the Past Members list for her are the "unbanned" actions. There's only one "banned" in my entire Past Members list. So are you sure it's not that the member was banned by groups.io?

I have several Past Members with "Banned" in the Past Members list.

I think that if you Ban someone and then, later, Un-ban them, the "Banned" entry is replaced by the "Un-banned" entry.  I have one address that I experimented with, and that's what it has.  So in that single respect, it looks like groups.io does a little clean-up in the Past Members list and it is not just a list of prior actions.

If I remember right, when members were banned by groups.io, their address disappears totally from the Past Members list.  As if they never existed.  But their record remains in the Activity Log, so they were not 100% wiped clean.

Andy


moderated Re: Banned member is still a member?? #bug

Andy
 

It seems like there might be a synchronization problem here, as if one server know one thing but another server has something different.

I can't guarantee that I saw the member listed only once in the Past Members list and then a few hours later twice without us changing anything; that's only from memory.  But the actions in the Activity Log, showing the member banned and then unsubscribed himself (with nothing between them about that address) is factual.

I just re-banned several members that I had banned previously.  Probably 50 or more, mostly from April this year.  April was a busy month.

re: "So are you sure it's not that the member was banned by groups.io?"

Yes.

Andy


moderated Re: Banned member is still a member?? #bug

 

You wrote

  • the Past Members list -- now he is listed TWICE!  "Banned" on Aug. 12, and "Left" on Aug. 13.  Same exact address.

It's weird that you're seeing the "banned" entries in the Past Members list. I had been testing some things recently in my group, with repeatedly banning and unbanning a member to check the display name in messages. But all I see in the Past Members list for her are the "unbanned" actions. There's only one "banned" in my entire Past Members list. So are you sure it's not that the member was banned by groups.io?
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Banned member is still a member?? #bug

 

On Fri, Aug 13, 2021 at 09:48 PM, Andy wrote:
the Past Members list -- now he is listed TWICE! 
I can't explain the rest of it, but I can explain this part. The Past Members list, I recall mentioning here long ago, is really a list of actions, not of members. Each time a member is removed or leaves, their email address is added to the list again. (They can be removed or leave more than once; example: they leave, then resubscribe; or they're removed, then added again; etc. Each action goes into the list, as if it's the member.) The list, I recall suggesting here, should be renamed to reflect that it is a list of "leaving" or "removal" actions, not members. The banned list does not behave this way. I can't remember whether it used to or not. I'll mull over the rest of these oddities. :)
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Banned member is still a member?? #bug

Andy
 

... Do you mean posting privileges?

Actually, email delivery and notifications.  I don't want them to receive group messages.

To answer another question, no Subgroups.

Andy


moderated Re: Improved draft saving #update

 

Mark,

There is *definitely* still a bug in the "error saving your draft" banner. When I compose a draft in one group and go into another group, the red banner immediately appears *for a split second* at the top of the second group, then disappears. It seems to have (I would like to say: it "obviously has") something to do with the draft being saved in the first group. This is still there, it's there predictably, and is not my imagination! I swear! ;) I had forgotten all about it since my last post on this. But then I composed a message here tonight (in Andy's thread on the unsubbing banned member), went into my test group to try something out, and there it was again. For a second I was flummoxed wondering what it was, and then I remembered this thread.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

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