Date   

moderated Re: "member message" urgently needs logging #suggestion #fixed

 

And searching on "notification overhaul," I found this even more recent message from Chris:
https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/26230
"Unless my recollection is failing Posts to Members used to be a "recorded activity", with Post (or message) to Member being in the drop - down  list of individual activities. Having had to send a couple this evening there is no sign of them in the Activity list and no relevant option in the drop - down although "Post to Member" appears in my Email Delivery History based on Bcc Moderators..."
Hey, Chris, this feature is not going to save the world. Forget about it! It's always been this way!

(A traveler checks into a hotel and starts to take a shower, but there's no hot water. Strange, he thinks, because there was hot running water in the sink. So he asks why there's no hot water in the shower, because he just froze his a** off. He's told that it's always been that way, just take some hot water from the sink! It's what everyone does here, so get used to it. Besides, hot water in the shower is not going to cure cancer!)
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: "member message" urgently needs logging #suggestion #fixed

Duane
 

On Mon, May 10, 2021 at 03:15 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
In the beginning, it was promised by Mark as part of the “upcoming notification overhaul.’
If I remember correctly, one of the earlier plans was to add outgoing messages to the +owner Messages area on each member subscription, so all messages both ways would be found in the same place.  I seem to recall that having the Reply button work the same as on regular messages, automatically quote any highlighted text (or all), was also requested as part of that scenario.  Definitely been awhile back.  I even found a reference to it on the old Trello page from 2016, https://trello.com/c/dIIABeqs/150-display-all-owner-messages-in-one-page

Duane


moderated Re: Email delay bug is back #bug

 

All apologies, Mark. When I saw that it had reached five minutes, I thought it might be happening again. But maybe it was only four. :)


On May 11, 2021, at 10:52 AM, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:


All,

Periodically, I'll have to take a mail server down for maintenance for a couple of minutes. I don't generally announce these, because it's just a couple minutes. Anything under a 5 minute delay does not need to be reported. 

Also, I've certainly seen delays on the receiving end of things, like with Gmail, which also sometimes prevents timely delivery of email.

Thanks,
Mark


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Email delay bug is back #bug

 

All,

Periodically, I'll have to take a mail server down for maintenance for a couple of minutes. I don't generally announce these, because it's just a couple minutes. Anything under a 5 minute delay does not need to be reported. 

Also, I've certainly seen delays on the receiving end of things, like with Gmail, which also sometimes prevents timely delivery of email.

Thanks,
Mark


moderated Re: Email delay bug is back #bug

Malcolm Austen
 

On Tue, 11 May 2021 18:03:33 +0100, J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

That is why I said it's "back." There was an acknowledged email problem a couple of weeks ago, and Mark had temporarily turned off one of the servers, or something.

I'm afraid I don't think 5 minutes delays now can obviously be ascribed to the issue that caused 20 minutes delays two weeks ago.

Malcolm.

--
Malcolm Austen - email: malcolm.austen@...


moderated Re: Email delay bug is back #bug

 

That is why I said it's "back." There was an acknowledged email problem a couple of weeks ago, and Mark had temporarily turned off one of the servers, or something.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: "member message" urgently needs logging #suggestion #fixed

 

On Tue, May 11, 2021 at 09:36 AM, Duane wrote:
t a lot of members don't check their spam/junk folder, so wouldn't be lying, just uninformed.
Yes. Was just responding to Chris's "they might deny all knowledge of it."

And the fact that the messages may go into spam is argument for, not against, the logging. If there's a log entry, I can ask the member to check their spam, at least knowing that the message has been sent.

Responding belatedly to Andy's comment that it has always been this way: yes! That's also further argument for, not against it. This poor little feature has been waiting its turn in line for YEARS, while nearly every new member wonders why it's not there and has to go through the hazing of the old-timers sagely telling them "next time, use bcc [you fool]" :)
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Email delay bug is back #bug

Malcolm Austen
 

On Tue, 11 May 2021 16:10:35 +0100, J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@gmail.com> wrote:

Messages that post immediately on site are taking about five minutes to come through email this morning. Same with pending message notifications.
Regardless of the effect of polling frequency in your mail client, I don't think anyone should ever see a 5 minute delay on an email as a bug! Grey-listing can easily account for such a delay, as can any number of other routine SMTP occurrences.

Malcolm.

--
Malcolm Austen - email: malcolm.austen@weald.org.uk


moderated Re: "member message" urgently needs logging #suggestion #fixed

 

I didn't miss anything.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: "member message" urgently needs logging #suggestion #fixed

Chris Jones
 

On Tue, May 11, 2021 at 05:33 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
The feature is asked for by almost every new member, has been begged and pleaded for for years, and its lack is always inexplicable to people.
I think you missed the bit in my earlier post when I stated Again I find myself having some sympathy for this request...

I am not arguing against the request, merely pointing out that it is not a cure for all known diseases.

Chris


moderated Re: "member message" urgently needs logging #suggestion #fixed

Duane
 

On Tue, May 11, 2021 at 10:54 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
I don’t believe group members tend to lie about not having received a message.
But a lot of members don't check their spam/junk folder, so wouldn't be lying, just uninformed.

Duane


moderated Re: Email delay bug is back #bug

 

Mine usually appear instantaneously.


On Tue, May 11, 2021 at 9:31 AM Duane <txpigeon@...> wrote:
On Tue, May 11, 2021 at 10:23 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
Messages that post immediately on site are taking about five minutes to come through email this morning
How often do you have your client set to check email?  Mine is set for 13 minutes, so the delay could be that long before it would come in.

Duane


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: "member message" urgently needs logging #suggestion #fixed

 

This is a message from you, Chris, in 2018, on GMF (emphasis added).
Title: "Possible Missing Activity"

I had the need to send a message to a member before either releasing or rejecting a message from him in moderation.
I know the message I sent him was sent because I checked the "bcc Moderators" box and received a copy of it. However, that "activity" does not appear in the log and I can find no category in the list of activities that covers it.
Can anyone confirm (or otherwise) that this action is one that for whatever reason is not logged?
Chris

https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum/message/11366


And here are a few more. Easy to find: just search on the ubiquitously suggested workaround, "bcc":

https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum/topic/78841674

"I don't see a record of these direct emails under Admin->Activity.
Are these messages logged anywhere??"

 

https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum/topic/75147275

"These don't show up in Activity for some reason, which maybe is a good suggestion for Beta"

 

https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum/topic/64415660

"When using the "Send message" function to email a member about a pending post, is the message saved somewhere? I have looked but can't find them."

 

And on and on they go, back to the beginnings of time. It has almost become a hazing ritual for new members! They need to be put in their place, informed that the messags are not logged and and told to "just use bcc"!

 

 I didn't bother to search beta but the request has been ongoing here, as well. I know because I've participated in them. (I'm not in GMF but I was sure new people had to be wondering why these messages were not logged, so I searched there. I was not wrong.)

The feature is asked for by almost every new member, has been begged and pleaded for for years, and its lack is always inexplicable to people.

I rest my case. :)

---

 

 

 





--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Email delay bug is back #bug

Duane
 

On Tue, May 11, 2021 at 10:23 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
Messages that post immediately on site are taking about five minutes to come through email this morning
How often do you have your client set to check email?  Mine is set for 13 minutes, so the delay could be that long before it would come in.

Duane


moderated Re: "member message" urgently needs logging #suggestion #fixed

 

Proof of sending is all I’m asking for. “Sent member message to xyz.” As simple as logging a group message, and possibly even more important due to the sensitive nature of these messages, the group rule (at least in my group) that they must be responded to, etc. 

I don’t believe group members tend to lie about not having received a message. And the email delivery history can be of some help (if there have not been a lot of group messages in between or if the member is not set to Individual Messages).

I am just astounded that a request as simple, and as obviously useful, as this is getting such blowback. SMH.


On May 11, 2021, at 8:21 AM, Chris Jones via groups.io <chrisjones12@...> wrote:

On Tue, May 11, 2021 at 03:51 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
I have no way of knowing whether this was my fault (didn’t hit “send”?) or the system’s. 
 
Logging at *mimimum* the sending of these messages, if not their content as well (which would be preferable), is crucial.
Again I find myself having some sympathy for this request while at the same time realising that even if implemented it would provide no evidence whatsoever that the member concerned had received or read it.

Even if the message had been received and understood the member could still deny all knowledge of it and there would be nothing an owner or moderator could do to prove otherwise.

Proof of sending would not be proof of delivery.

Chris

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Email delay bug is back #bug

 

Messages that post immediately on site are taking about five minutes to come through email this morning. Same with pending message notifications.


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: "member message" urgently needs logging #suggestion #fixed

Chris Jones
 

On Tue, May 11, 2021 at 03:51 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
I have no way of knowing whether this was my fault (didn’t hit “send”?) or the system’s. 
 
Logging at *mimimum* the sending of these messages, if not their content as well (which would be preferable), is crucial.
Again I find myself having some sympathy for this request while at the same time realising that even if implemented it would provide no evidence whatsoever that the member concerned had received or read it.

Even if the message had been received and understood the member could still deny all knowledge of it and there would be nothing an owner or moderator could do to prove otherwise.

Proof of sending would not be proof of delivery.

Chris


moderated Re: "member message" urgently needs logging #suggestion #fixed

 

I finally emailed the member and asked whether she’d received a messsge from me. Very awkward. Sweated for a day snd a half because we have a group guideline saying members must respond to moderator messsges. Her reply just came back: “No I did not.”

I have no way of knowing whether this was my fault (didn’t hit “send”?) or the system’s. 

Logging at *mimimum* the sending of these messages, if not their content as well (which would be preferable), is crucial.


On May 10, 2021, at 8:51 PM, J_Catlady via groups.io <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

On Mon, May 10, 2021 at 08:46 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
nowhere to be found
nowhere to be found or even known whether it had been sent.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: #suggestion Instant Down button #suggestion

Malcolm Austen
 

On Mon, 10 May 2021 16:09:25 +0100, A8 via groups.io <a8b7k57G@...> wrote:



The image above is a thing that appears at the bottom of a page. If you click it it moves your view of the messages to the top.
It is a very common thing in forums.

Another very common thing is that people with keyboards are unaware that the [HOME] button does this ...

Can we get one that scrolls one to the bottom, placed at the top of pages?

... and that the [END] button does that.

I rarely find that having the additional buttons on-screen gains anything for me.

Malcolm.

--
Malcolm Austen - email: malcolm.austen@...


moderated Re: Checkboxes in emailed photos section for bulk deletion of copies, unwanted pictures #suggestion

Pat Pratt
 

Tony and Jay, I agree, The ability to bulk delete would be great!!!!
--
Pat Pratt

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