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moderated Re: Option to expire message editing capability after a short time #suggestion

 

On Sun, Apr 25, 2021 at 10:29 AM, Paul Kanevsky wrote:
A five minute window during which the author can edit their post before the email is sent out would work well for us, I believe
I can see a problem with the five minutes and/or the not sending of the message at all until the window is over. People are going to kick and scream about their messages being delayed, why has my message not posted yet, etc. etc. etc. So I think you either have to send out the original message and the edits (during the allowed time interval), or make the interval so short that the person posting the message doesn't notice the delay. I think this can be a tricky little nit.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Option to expire message editing capability after a short time #suggestion

David Kirkby
 

On Sun, 25 Apr 2021 at 18:13, Dave Sergeant <dave@...> wrote:

I have disabled edits on the groups I moderate and nobody has
complained. But most groups seem to leave things at the default editing
allowed.

Dave
I too have disabled edits on the groups that I manage. I recall one person moaning, but that is all. 

You can not edit emails after sending them. Just post a correction if the change is significant, or ignore if insignificant like a typo, spelling error etc. 

IMHO the current system is fine - either allow or disallow edits. 

Dave

--
Dr. David Kirkby,
Kirkby Microwave Ltd,
drkirkby@...
https://www.kirkbymicrowave.co.uk/
Telephone 01621-680100./ +44 1621 680100

Registered in England & Wales, company number 08914892.
Registered office:
Stokes Hall Lodge, Burnham Rd, Althorne, Chelmsford, Essex, CM3 6DT, United Kingdom


moderated Re: Option to expire message editing capability after a short time #suggestion

Paul Kanevsky
 

Hi Bruce,

On Sun, Apr 25, 2021 at 01:11 PM, Bruce Bowman wrote:
Paul -- Please help me understand this. As I read it, messages would immediately post to the online message archive (so they can be edited), but not be sent out as emails until the selected editing interval has expired (so as to avoid all the dupes). Right?
Yes. Post the message to the archives but don't send out the email until the editing window expires.

Somewhat concerned here about how might this interact with existing moderation/hashtag functions, and also the delivery of digests.
I'm not sure why this would change anything, it's just a 5 minute delay in sending the email message. The rest should work as before.

After 5 minutes, the Edit Message menu would disappear or be disabled.
Wouldn't this require a browser refresh (on the client side)? I could see this being problematic if someone clicks what appears to be an active edit link and it "doesn't work."
Yes, of course. But that's true about any change that might happen while someone is editing or viewing a stale webpage. If the editing time expired and the browser wasn't refreshed, an error message would be displayed to say that editing is no longer allowed.

Kinda like the idea in principle...the devil is in the details.
Which is why I'm not coding this myself ;)

Regards,

     -Paul


moderated Re: Option to expire message editing capability after a short time #suggestion

Paul Kanevsky
 

Our group covers a pretty technical subject with a wide mix of highly technical and less technical members. Those who get to read the archives later may not discover the corrections posted further down in the thread, so editing a message to correct misinformation can be important. But, the unlimited number of edits/re-edits is what I think gets us into trouble with multiple copy emails. A five minute window during which the author can edit their post before the email is sent out would work well for us, I believe. This is something that's worked well on various web forums I've been a part of.

Regards,

    -Paul


On Sun, Apr 25, 2021 at 12:53 PM, Andy wrote:
Paul wrote, "Members making multiple edits to their messages generate a lot of email traffic, often with repeated, very slightly altered content. Despite many discussions on this subject, members continue to edit and re-edit their posts."

That's why we disabled editing them in our group.  It was one of the best changes we made, IMO.

Members can send a follow-up reply, hours or days later, which some do when the need arises.  A newly-composed follow-up reply goes over much better than a frequently re-hashed version of an old reply.

Andy


moderated Re: Option to expire message editing capability after a short time #suggestion

 

On Sun, Apr 25, 2021 at 10:14 AM, Dave Sergeant wrote:
most groups seem to leave things at the default editing
allowed.
That's not clear. All the groups I'm in, including beta, have editing disabled.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Option to expire message editing capability after a short time #suggestion

 

I think this could be great option in between allowing and disabling editing completely. I'd make the time interval shorter, like maybe one minute, although that could be a group setting as well ("allow editing for x minutes").
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Option to expire message editing capability after a short time #suggestion

Dave Sergeant
 

I find it particularly annoying when I come in in a morning and find
several emails from the same person and they all turn out to be edits
of the same message. With the way my email program sorts them I always
read the initial (unedited) one first...

I have disabled edits on the groups I moderate and nobody has
complained. But most groups seem to leave things at the default editing
allowed.

Dave

On 25 Apr 2021 at 9:16, Paul Kanevsky wrote:

Members making multiple edits to their messages generate a lot of email
traffic, often with repeated, very slightly altered content. Despite
many discussions on this subject, members continue to edit and re-edit
their posts.

http://davesergeant.com


moderated Re: Option to expire message editing capability after a short time #suggestion

Bruce Bowman
 

On Sun, Apr 25, 2021 at 12:45 PM, Paul Kanevsky wrote:
One idea is to allow editing of a message only for a short time after it's first posted, say for 5 minutes.
Paul -- Please help me understand this. As I read it, messages would immediately post to the online message archive (so they can be edited), but not be sent out as emails until the selected editing interval has expired (so as to avoid all the dupes). Right?

Somewhat concerned here about how might this interact with existing moderation/hashtag functions, and also the delivery of digests.

After 5 minutes, the Edit Message menu would disappear or be disabled.
Wouldn't this require a browser refresh (on the client side)? I could see this being problematic if someone clicks what appears to be an active edit link and it "doesn't work."

Kinda like the idea in principle...the devil is in the details.

Regards,
Bruce


moderated Re: Option to expire message editing capability after a short time #suggestion

Andy
 

Paul wrote, "Members making multiple edits to their messages generate a lot of email traffic, often with repeated, very slightly altered content. Despite many discussions on this subject, members continue to edit and re-edit their posts."

That's why we disabled editing them in our group.  It was one of the best changes we made, IMO.

Members can send a follow-up reply, hours or days later, which some do when the need arises.  A newly-composed follow-up reply goes over much better than a frequently re-hashed version of an old reply.

Andy


moderated Option to expire message editing capability after a short time #suggestion

Paul Kanevsky
 

Members making multiple edits to their messages generate a lot of email traffic, often with repeated, very slightly altered content. Despite many discussions on this subject, members continue to edit and re-edit their posts.

One idea is to allow editing of a message only for a short time after it's first posted, say for 5 minutes. After 5 minutes, the Edit Message menu would disappear or be disabled. This can be an option for the owner in group settings, and would work well for large groups, where multiple small edits often overwhelm subscriber's mailboxes.

Regards,

    -Paul


moderated Re: Enable membership-editing capability in group-profile page for ADMINS as well #suggestion

 

On Sun, Apr 25, 2021 at 04:50 AM, Duane wrote:
have a "Member Page" link visible on the profile page for those that have permission
That would be similar in function to Christos's original suggestion, although not in format, and is better because it doesn't imply editing of the profile itself.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Enable membership-editing capability in group-profile page for ADMINS as well #suggestion

 

On Sun, Apr 25, 2021 at 04:50 AM, Duane wrote:
e the least disruptive option would be to have a "Member Page" link visible on the profile page for those that have permission
I could get behind that. It would be a huge improvement on the current situation.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Enable membership-editing capability in group-profile page for ADMINS as well #suggestion

 

On Sun, Apr 25, 2021 at 04:22 AM, Bruce Bowman wrote:
I have to stop short of "terrible PITA."
I call it that. And I call it that in large part because you are constantly faced with the dead-end, misleading link of the display name.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Enable membership-editing capability in group-profile page for ADMINS as well #suggestion

Duane
 

On Sun, Apr 25, 2021 at 01:07 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
There really, really should be a fast snd efficient way to get not just to the member page but to all the member’s posts (a related current PITA).
I believe the least disruptive option would be to have a "Member Page" link visible on the profile page for those that have permission, maybe just below the "All Messages By This Member" link.  This would be consistent with the options seen in the More menu, so apparently the coding is already in use.  Yes, it's another click, but I don't think Mark will ever be able to have all the options in every location that someone might be in when they decide to access another function.  Even if he could, it would be terribly cluttered.

Duane


moderated Re: Enable membership-editing capability in group-profile page for ADMINS as well #suggestion

Bruce Bowman
 

On Sun, Apr 25, 2021 at 02:07 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
There really, really should be a fast snd efficient way to get not just to the member page but to all the member’s posts (a related current PITA).
Both are available via the More menu. Perhaps a little inconvenient, but I have to stop short of "terrible PITA."

At this point I'm unclear on what the suggestion actually is.

Regards,
Bruce


moderated Re: Enable membership-editing capability in group-profile page for ADMINS as well #suggestion

 

Exactly. It’s intuitive to click on the display name snd go to the membership page. Not to the dead-end of a (useless) profile snd then hand to go back and start over.

The reason I reject Christos’s solution to this problem - snd it IS an ongoing problem IMHO - is that mods should not be able to edit a member’s *profile*.

There really, really should be a fast snd efficient way to get not just to the member page but to all the member’s posts (a related current PITA). After six years of running a group here, these two hassles continue to hound snd confound me in nearly a daily basis. They should be fixed. Since the fix does not appear simple, at least that I can see, I believe a redesign is in order.

On Apr 24, 2021, at 9:37 PM, D R Stinson <dano@mt.net> wrote:

I'm *pretty certain* I support a change of this kind. My hesitance is because of my being unsure of the definitions of the specific terms being used. I'll explain by example.

If someone posts a message and I want to change something related to this person's membership, such as moderation restrictions, it's silly to have to go through all these steps to be able to put a member on moderation or even take them off moderation. It seems like it would be intuitive to be able to click on the person's name and go to their membership page to change their abilities or to change their display name. When I'm searching for a person, it's not to find out what they've posted in the past. And for a group that may not have a membership list visible to members it's even more useless. I use message search for that.

Dano.




--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Enable membership-editing capability in group-profile page for ADMINS as well #suggestion

 

I'm *pretty certain* I support a change of this kind. My hesitance is because of my being unsure of the definitions of the specific terms being used. I'll explain by example.

If someone posts a message and I want to change something related to this person's membership, such as moderation restrictions, it's silly to have to go through all these steps to be able to put a member on moderation or even take them off moderation. It seems like it would be intuitive to be able to click on the person's name and go to their membership page to change their abilities or to change their display name. When I'm searching for a person, it's not to find out what they've posted in the past. And for a group that may not have a membership list visible to members it's even more useless. I use message search for that.

Dano.


moderated Re: formatting an indented line issue [no can do] #bug

KWKloeber
 

David

It's not a #bug per se

** (apparently the snafu is that) MCE let's you designate what a <CR> enters.  /div/, /p, /blockquote, or /pre.  
(again apparently) Mark chose /div.   “His site, his choice.”

-ken

**Caveat: I have no clue about coding, this is just from my observations/troubleshooting. 


On Thu, Apr 22, 2021 at 01:59 PM, David Bryant wrote:
Well, I usually don't use indenting if I'm not creating a list. But I do see what's going on. I'll use some text you entered, KW, to demonstrate.

1) this is a test of the emergency broadcast system.

2) this line was indented line.

3) this line wants to be non-indented, but cannot be formatted as such (no matter what, it hangs onto the pp above it.)

4) this line wants to be indented twice, but cannot be formatted separately from the two lines above (no matter what, it too, hangs onto the pp above it.)

The problem occurs if one starts indenting from the top of this set of lines, and there are no intervening empty lines.

1) this is a test of the emergency broadcast system.
2) this line was indented line.
3) this line wants to be non-indented, but cannot be formatted as such (no matter what, it hangs onto the pp above it.)
4) this line wants to be indented twice, but cannot be formatted separately from the two lines above (no matter what, it too, hangs onto the pp above it.)

What I observe here is that all three lines (2, 3, & 4) end up being formatted as a single <div> in the HTML coding. Since indentation is created by a style= attribute in the <div> tag, lines 2, 3, and 4 are "stuck" to each other, and move left and right as a single block.

This is another example. I started with the same four lines, but this time I indented line 4, then line 3, then line 2. I ended up with three separate <div> tags, and each line can now be moved independently of the others.

1) this is a test of the emergency broadcast system.
2) this line was indented line.
3) this line wants to be non-indented, but cannot be formatted as such (no matter what, it hangs onto the pp above it.)
4) this line wants to be indented twice, but cannot be formatted separately from the two lines above (no matter what, it too, hangs onto the pp above it.)

So this definitely is a bug in the HTML editor. Maybe Mark ought to upgrade "TinyMCE". Oh, yeah. I played around with the "Shift + Enter" trick Chris Jones mentioned. That makes each line a separate paragraph (<p> and </p> tags). The editor handles those just fine, adding the "style=" attribute to the existing <p> tags. But when I key in line, CR, line, CR, etc., the editor just puts in <br /> tags to separate lines, and then KW's problem arises -- you can't associate "style=" with a <br /> tag. So new tags get added, incorrectly.

KW says the editor works correctly at the TinyMCE web site, probably because the <br /> tags aren't used in the updated version (just a guess).
--
David Bryant
Canyon Lake, Texas
https://t-vog.groups.io/g/main    https://davidcbryant.net


moderated Re: Enable membership-editing capability in group-profile page for ADMINS as well #suggestion

 

Duane, That’s exactly the problem and why I hesitated to make the suggestion. I frankly think some sort of redesign is in order. It’s now too difficult for mods to access the member page, snd the profile really just consists of an annoying (I’d like  to say infuriating) obstacle.


On Apr 24, 2021, at 4:38 PM, Duane <txpigeon@...> wrote:

On Sat, Apr 24, 2021 at 06:19 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
It would be orders of magnitude more convenient if clicking on that link took a mod to the user's member page instead of the (generally, or at least relatively, useless) profile page.
But then it wouldn't work for regular members unless the group is set to allow them to see the Member List.  I wouldn't want it to work differently depending on the "clicker's" status (consistency is good.)

Duane

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Enable membership-editing capability in group-profile page for ADMINS as well #suggestion

Duane
 

On Sat, Apr 24, 2021 at 06:19 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
It would be orders of magnitude more convenient if clicking on that link took a mod to the user's member page instead of the (generally, or at least relatively, useless) profile page.
But then it wouldn't work for regular members unless the group is set to allow them to see the Member List.  I wouldn't want it to work differently depending on the "clicker's" status (consistency is good.)

Duane

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