Date   

moderated Re: spamcop.net blocking groups.io? #misc

 

On Tue, Mar 9, 2021 at 2:52 PM Bruce Bowman <bruce.bowman@...> wrote:
On Tue, Mar 9, 2021 at 01:16 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
As of now, we're not being blocked by Spamcop.
It's been reported to me that GIO's outgoing IP addresses are still being blacklisted by some.

66.175.222.12  SORBS Spam and UCEPROTECTL3

SORBS has been blocking that server since last June. I've given up trying to get them to unblock it.
 
66.175.222.108  UCEPROTECTL3 and ZapBL


The UCEPROTECTL3 blocklist should not be used by anyone. That's blocking us because we're hosted by Linode, who they don't like. As an aside, that blocklist is run by some rather immature and sexist dudes.

The ZapBL blocklist appears to be little used, and I'm not sure how to get us off of it. I've been ignoring it.

Thanks,
Mark 


moderated Re: spamcop.net blocking groups.io? #misc

Bruce Bowman
 

On Tue, Mar 9, 2021 at 01:16 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
As of now, we're not being blocked by Spamcop.
It's been reported to me that GIO's outgoing IP addresses are still being blacklisted by some.

66.175.222.12  SORBS Spam and UCEPROTECTL3
66.175.222.108  UCEPROTECTL3 and ZapBL

They could be parroting SpamCop and maybe it will resolve on its own later?

FYI,
Bruce


moderated Subject line in editor not populated correctly after a merge #bug

Bruce Bowman
 

Mark -- We recently had messages inadvertently get cross-posted into the "wrong" topic. I split off the offending three messages into a new topic, giving them a temporary subject line. I then merged this temporary topic into the one where those messages belonged. I used the topics-test page to do the merge, if that matters.

When subsequently replying to the final merged message, the online message editor auto-populated the subject line not with the merged subject, but the previous, temporary one. 

FYI,
Bruce


moderated Re: spamcop.net blocking groups.io? #misc

 

Hello,

On Mon, Mar 8, 2021 at 11:20 PM Tony Moody <aim@...> wrote:

The issue with this IP address is that somehow one of our trap addresses
has found its way onto the mailing list Haitianpolitics@groups.io
We would never subscribe an address to a list and certainly would never
confirm a subscription to a mailing list.
However, stuff happens, so I did unsubscribe the address from the
list... twice.  The mail from Haitianpolitics@groups.io continues,
causing the IP to be listed again.


Thank you for this! I have been unable to get a response from Spamcop and this is a tremendous help. Haitianpolitics is an Enterprise group. They direct added some people multiple times over the past several days. I went through the most likely suspects and disabled those accounts. I also sent an email to the owners of the group telling them that they cannot do that again.

We are also now monitoring a whole lot of RBLs much more closely than we were in the past and keeping better records of their responses, which will help in tracking down events like this in the future.

As of now, we're not being blocked by Spamcop.

Thanks,
Mark


moderated Re: How to fix out-of-bounds subscriptions #misc

 

And if they do affirmatively click “follow” on some topic, that clearly implies they want those emails. So the only unwanted emails they might receive are from topics they themselves are participating in.

On Mar 9, 2021, at 9:15 AM, J_Catlady via groups.io <j.olivia.catlady=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:

They won’t be inundated unless they follow a whole bunch of topics (including replying to topics, which now implies following). If they’re inactive, they’ll continue to receive nothing at all.
On Mar 9, 2021, at 7:12 AM, Drew <pubx1@af2z.net> wrote:

"No email" will be far less problematic. People who have opted to limit their incoming email in a high-traffic group will not appreciate suddenly being inundated with dozens of emails and having to change their subscription options to fix it again. It will result in spam labeling and unsubscriptions, plus complaints and help requests to owners.

Drew



On 03/09/21 09:25, JohnF via groups.io wrote:
I would lean toward No Email as being less problematic. (Someone suddenly getting a lot of traffic unexpectedly when they were getting none, without any action on their part, is going to lead to greater likelihood of labeling the messages as spam.)
However, if you send out a one-time admin message explaining "Your mail options have been reset for the following groups" with instructions on how to fix it if they want the mail, I think that will fix the problem for most users.
JohnF




--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu




--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: How to fix out-of-bounds subscriptions #misc

 

They won’t be inundated unless they follow a whole bunch of topics (including replying to topics, which now implies following). If they’re inactive, they’ll continue to receive nothing at all.

On Mar 9, 2021, at 7:12 AM, Drew <pubx1@af2z.net> wrote:

"No email" will be far less problematic. People who have opted to limit their incoming email in a high-traffic group will not appreciate suddenly being inundated with dozens of emails and having to change their subscription options to fix it again. It will result in spam labeling and unsubscriptions, plus complaints and help requests to owners.

Drew



On 03/09/21 09:25, JohnF via groups.io wrote:
I would lean toward No Email as being less problematic. (Someone suddenly getting a lot of traffic unexpectedly when they were getting none, without any action on their part, is going to lead to greater likelihood of labeling the messages as spam.)
However, if you send out a one-time admin message explaining "Your mail options have been reset for the following groups" with instructions on how to fix it if they want the mail, I think that will fix the problem for most users.
JohnF



--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: How to fix out-of-bounds subscriptions #misc

Drew
 

"No email" will be far less problematic. People who have opted to limit their incoming email in a high-traffic group will not appreciate suddenly being inundated with dozens of emails and having to change their subscription options to fix it again. It will result in spam labeling and unsubscriptions, plus complaints and help requests to owners.

Drew

On 03/09/21 09:25, JohnF via groups.io wrote:
I would lean toward No Email as being less problematic. (Someone suddenly getting a lot of traffic unexpectedly when they were getting none, without any action on their part, is going to lead to greater likelihood of labeling the messages as spam.)
However, if you send out a one-time admin message explaining "Your mail options have been reset for the following groups" with instructions on how to fix it if they want the mail, I think that will fix the problem for most users.
JohnF


moderated Re: spamcop.net blocking groups.io? #misc

Duane
 

On Tue, Mar 9, 2021 at 01:20 AM, Tony Moody wrote:
The issue with this IP address is that somehow one of our trap addresses
has found its way onto the mailing list Haitianpolitics@groups.io
We would never subscribe an address to a list and certainly would never
confirm a subscription to a mailing list.
However, stuff happens, so I did unsubscribe the address from the
list... twice.  The mail from Haitianpolitics@groups.io continues,
causing the IP to be listed again.
I think I'm beginning to see what happened.  My theory:

1. Haitianploitics direct added the trap address.  [Personal Note: This is where some indication of Premium/Enterprise status on a group's home page would be useful to me.)
2. The GIO site got blacklisted when a message was sent to the trap address (that bounced.)
3. Spamcop unsubscribed the address twice.
4. GIO attempted to resend the bounced message to the trap address.
5. Spamcop put GIO back on the blacklist.

This assumes (I know, most often a bad idea) that the bouncing message was resent from the GIO queue, even though the trap address had unsubscribed.  If true, GIO should be cleared after a couple of weeks when the trap address goes into Bounced status and the unsubscribe takes effect.

My gut feeling is that the overall problem is with email services, particularly smaller ones, relying only on spamcop for filtering.  Even the spamcop site says not to do this, to use their service in conjunction with whitelists and other evaluation methods.

Maybe there's something in there that will help resolve the situation.

Duane


moderated Re: How to fix out-of-bounds subscriptions #misc

 

I would lean toward No Email as being less problematic. (Someone suddenly getting a lot of traffic unexpectedly when they were getting none, without any action on their part, is going to lead to greater likelihood of labeling the messages as spam.)

However, if you send out a one-time admin message explaining "Your mail options have been reset for the following groups" with instructions on how to fix it if they want the mail, I think that will fix the problem for most users.

JohnF


moderated Re: spamcop.net blocking groups.io? #misc

Bruce Bowman
 

On Tue, Mar 9, 2021 at 02:20 AM, Tony Moody wrote:
The issue with this IP address is that somehow one of our trap addresses
has found its way onto the mailing list Haitianpolitics@groups.io
We would never subscribe an address to a list and certainly would never
confirm a subscription to a mailing list.
However, stuff happens, so I did unsubscribe the address from the
list... twice.  The mail from Haitianpolitics@groups.io continues,
causing the IP to be listed again.
It would be nice if they'd tell us what the trap address was so groups.io could ban it.

Bruce


moderated Re: spamcop.net blocking groups.io? #misc

Bruce Bowman
 

On Tue, Mar 9, 2021 at 01:51 AM, SP4149 wrote:
I had this happen today to subscribers on several lists simultaneously even though no messages had been sent when the bounce notice from spamcop was recorded on the activity log.
Ken -- Bouncing is an account status, not a subscription status. For this reason accounts can [and often do] start bouncing in response to activity in a group that is not yours.

Regards,
Bruce


moderated Re: spamcop.net blocking groups.io? #misc

Tony Moody
 

I wrote to Spamcop, to a reference on the web :

On 2021-03-08 6:47 a.m., Tony Moody wrote:
> To SpamCop Admin Don D'Minion
>
> Hi,
>
> Please unblock mail02.groups.io [66.175.222.108]
>
> I am a user of Groups.io services and Spamcop is blocking delivery of my
emails from various
> groups and group members. This has resulted in much alarm and
despondency here due to
> missed emails , notices and even replies to my enquiries about the
Groups.io services.
>
> Please do not block my emails
>
> Again.
>
> PLEEASE DO NOT BLOCK LEGITIMATE , LEGAL AND DESIRED MESSAGES from
> Groups.io.
>
> WHAT SPAMCOP IS DOING IS THEFT AND IS WHAT CAN BE SEEN AS SPAMMING.
>
> PLEASE CEASE AND DESIST
>
> Tony Moody

Spamcop replied :

Sorry, Don isn't with us anymore. He passed away about six years ago.

The issue with this IP address is that somehow one of our trap addresses
has found its way onto the mailing list Haitianpolitics@groups.io
We would never subscribe an address to a list and certainly would never
confirm a subscription to a mailing list.
However, stuff happens, so I did unsubscribe the address from the
list... twice.  The mail from Haitianpolitics@groups.io continues,
causing the IP to be listed again.
Richard

I signed up to Haitianpolitics@groups.io ; my french not good so I couldn't follow the conversation. There is some english .

It strikes me that perhaps Spamcop algorithms do not play nicely with "foreign"  languages.

OK,
Tony


moderated Re: spamcop.net blocking groups.io? #misc

SP4149
 

I had this happen today to subscribers on several lists simultaneously even though no messages had been sent when the bounce notice from spamcop was recorded on the activity log.
ken


moderated A couple more areas missed with the new subscription checks #bug

 

Hi Mark,

I just found out that there are two (or three?) more places where the new NoEmail & SpecialNotice assignment needs to also reset the FO settings, as they still allow you to "set" your subscription to either NoEmail or SpecialNotice while keeping the FO settings you had before.

A. If one has a group set to Indiv/digests/summary + FO(...), the "Your Groups" page (groups.io/groups) allows you to select one or more groups and set them to either NoEmail or SpecialNotice, and it will do so but it also keeps the previously-selected FO settings.

B. Same in the Unsubscribe page (from email message link, ../<groupname>/leave/.../.../.../xyzzy) or Sub settings page -> Leave group -> "Verify Leave" dialog, it gives you the option to "Switch to Special Notices", which also resets you to Special Notices but it also keeps the FO settings you had before.

Cheers,
Christos


moderated Re: Disallow concurrent "special notices" and "following only" #suggestion #bug

 

Christos et al, 

I couldn’t reproduce my problem, the one Mark fixed, but I did want to say  (1) my issue was not that I was FO and No Email. The problem was that I was showing No Email in the places that mattered (Member List and My Groups page) but as Individual Emsil in my subscription page; and (2) I think the reason I couldn’t run an experiment to reproduce was that i had no other subscription to any other group that was set to No Email before the change. So I’m still feeling a bit in the dark as to what Mark is fixing.


On Mar 8, 2021, at 5:14 PM, Christos G. Psarras <christos@...> wrote:

 Mark,

On 2021-03-08 17:43, Mark Fletcher via groups.io wrote:
That is, can you now change that subscription (to FeralCats), so that it's No Email and also Following Only? And if so, how did you do it?

I just tested this with my beta subscription, which normally is Indiv+FO+FF+AFR.  I selected No email, and the code reset my message selection to All Messages.  Before hitting Save, I reselected*** FO+FF+AFR, (with NoEmail selected) then clicked save, but the code reset NoEmail back to Individual.


(*** right here, IMO FO should be disabled if NoEmail is selected, so the visual settings correspond to the checks (and resets) the sub page code does when one clicks on save)

Cheers,
Christos


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Disallow concurrent "special notices" and "following only" #suggestion #bug

 

I’ve tried to reproduce this and can’t. It seems everything is working as expected.


On Mar 8, 2021, at 2:59 PM, J_Catlady via groups.io <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

Mark,

Thanks. No, I doubt that I could get screwed up again. :-) I’m probably fine with that change (not home at the moment to check but will soon). My point was that unless the force-individual-email procedure itself is fixed/changed to also update the database, as you are going to do for the currently messed up subscriptions, I don’t see what prevents anyone who was No Email before the (original) changes, and who now sets themselves to FO, from having  the same result as I did. But I’ll test that out (out of curiosity, if nothing else) when I get back.


On Mar 8, 2021, at 2:43 PM, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:


On Mon, Mar 8, 2021 at 2:27 PM J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but if by "fix existing subscriptions" you mean make the changes retroactive, I don't think it's a matter of that. Even after you fix existing subscriptions with the configuration I described, any member who is currently No Email could - even after you fix existing subscriptions - change to Following Only and I think you'd have the same problem. As I explained in the chronology, I was No Email before the changes, and I set myself to Following Only *after* the changes. But maybe I misunderstood.
 
For the one subscription in question, I just went into your Subscription page, and hit Save. That changed the database so that it had valid values. Can you now change it so that it no longer has valid values again? That is, can you now change that subscription (to FeralCats), so that it's No Email and also Following Only? And if so, how did you do it?

Thanks,
Mark

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Disallow concurrent "special notices" and "following only" #suggestion #bug

 

Mark,

On 2021-03-08 17:43, Mark Fletcher via groups.io wrote:
That is, can you now change that subscription (to FeralCats), so that it's No Email and also Following Only? And if so, how did you do it?

I just tested this with my beta subscription, which normally is Indiv+FO+FF+AFR.  I selected No email, and the code reset my message selection to All Messages.  Before hitting Save, I reselected*** FO+FF+AFR, (with NoEmail selected) then clicked save, but the code reset NoEmail back to Individual.


(*** right here, IMO FO should be disabled if NoEmail is selected, so the visual settings correspond to the checks (and resets) the sub page code does when one clicks on save)

Cheers,
Christos


moderated Re: How to fix out-of-bounds subscriptions #misc

 

IMO it comes down to the intent of the member, i.e., what they had in mind (or thought was going to happen) when they originally set their settings to FO+... or AFR, regardless of the NoEmail/SpecialNotices delivery selection.  Their "intent", as I interpret it, was that they would receive only messages they manually follow and nothing else (or just SpecialNotices as well).  So if one has [either FO, FO+FF, FO+AFR, or FO+FF+AFR selected] and [NoEmail or SpecialNotices], FO should take precedence IMO which means reset their delivery to Individual Messages, because that would achieve the intent (and end result) of receiving only messages/hashtags they manually follow and nothing else.  It's also consistent with what the (affected) user would get if they themselves went to their subscription screen and clicked on save, even without changing anything, since the code now checks and resets invalid combos.

In other words, I'd personally err on "giving them more than they thought they'd get" instead of "giving them less (or none) than they thought they'd get".  Either way may upset some of those folks, but personally I'd rather have a member be upset/annoyed at me for sending them more email than none at all; they can reset the first scenario because they are aware of it, but they won't know the second one is going on (for a while at least), and judging by the fact that some of us more knowledgeable folks were still fooled, imagine their case.

Another alternative could be to leave things as they are, and send a system email to the affected users only, instructing them to go and check/reset their subscription settings to ensure they are getting what they really meant to get.

Or reset the Message Selection to All Messages and send a system email to the group owners instructing them to let their members know to check/reset their subscription settings to ensure they are getting what they really meant to get.

Cheers,
Christos


moderated Re: How to fix out-of-bounds subscriptions #misc

 

On second thought I think going with the FO might be best. If someone starts receiving emails they don't want, they will notice and can easily fix it by going to No Email. But if they are missing emails, they might not even realize it.

On top of that, the problem I experienced was a consequence of the system trying, and failing, to set me to Individual Email after I set myself to FO because I wanted selected emails. I don't know if there are, or were, any screwups in the opposite direction, but I know that kind exists. So I'd be more inclined to err on the side of setting them to FO and Individual Email.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: How to fix out-of-bounds subscriptions #misc

 

Since you don't know which option they set last (as you do in the context of the recent changes, so that the last one takes precedence), I don't think it matters one way or the other.

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

1961 - 1980 of 30417