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moderated Re: Member receiving msgs from non-subscribed groups #bug

 

On Wed, Feb 24, 2021 at 7:12 PM Andy <AI.egrps+io@...> wrote:
Mark, I guess you tracked down many of those suspect subscribers that forward messages to other people (https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/28546).  I see a few dozen former group members who were "banned from Groups.io via support" a few hours ago.

It is a major focus of my time this week.

 
Oddly, they don't appear in the Past or Banned Members lists, but are in the Activity log.

Perhaps 'banned from Groups.io' is not the right phrase if it implies they will appear on the Banned Members list. These are user accounts that have no subscriptions and are prevented from doing anything in the system. Internally, they're called 'inactive' but I don't think that's descriptive enough for the activity log.


Mark 


moderated Re: Invalid entries in ICS file #bug

 

Hello,

On Wed, Feb 24, 2021 at 7:39 AM Ry Jones <rjones@...> wrote:
Hi,
In looking into some calendar issues, I used an ICS validator and it showed quite a few issues:
Mostly invalid timezones and non-unique UIDs.

I have fixed all the invalid timezones, the incorrect UTC DTSTART/DTEND issues, and most of the non-unique UIDs. There are 4 remaining non-unique UIDs, which I believe came from multiple calendar invites sent to the group. We should merge those events when we receive them, but we don't currently. You can delete them by hand in the calendar.

If you are still seeing any issues, please send me as much detail as you can and I'll investigate.

Thanks,
Mark


moderated Re: Member keeps being unsubscribed, and re-joins with settings he did not set #misc

monamouroui
 

Has your member ever received an email from the group or GIO? 

I ask because I am wondering if maybe they are entering their email address incorrectly. Accidently using one that belongs to someone else. So when that other person receives a confirmation email, they are immediately rejecting it and simultaneously unsubscribing.

On Wed, Feb 24, 2021, 7:28 PM Andy <AI.egrps+io@...> wrote:
Andy Wedge,

So if person A forwards a group email to person B, and person B clicks on the "unsub" link in the footer of that email, person B should not be able to unsubscribe person A, unless person B also knows person A's login password -- right?  That was one of the concerns I had too.  Also if person B fakes person A's "from" email address and sends an email to the +unsubscribe address, there is a confirmation email that only goes to person A, so person B should not be able to confirm.

I still am almost 100% clueless what has been going on with the person in my group who gets unsubscribed and resubscribed so many times.  So the original question remains unanswered.  I THOUGHT he was doing this himself because every entry in the Activity log said "via web", but apparently that is not true at all.  My best guess at this point is that there is some sort of interaction going on in emails between Groups.io's servers and the member's email gateway, causing him to be repeatedly unsubscribed and immediately resubscribed with altered delivery settings, without the member lifting a finger.  Then Groups.io labels all that activity as "via web" even though it was entirely by email.

I note with some amusement that the link in the message footer to unsubscribe, includes "xyzzy" in the URL!

Andy I.


moderated Re: Member keeps being unsubscribed, and re-joins with settings he did not set #misc

Andy Wedge
 

Andy I,

On Thu, Feb 25, 2021 at 12:28 AM, Andy wrote:
So if person A forwards a group email to person B, and person B clicks on the "unsub" link in the footer of that email, person B should not be able to unsubscribe person A, unless person B also knows person A's login password -- right?
No. The Unsubscribe link in the email footer is personalised, in common with so many other mailing lists.  So if person A forwards an email with an unsubscribe link at the bottom, they are effectively giving away their credentials for that group and there is no need for person B to login to unsubscribe person A.  When the unsubscribe is completed in this way, Groups.io sends one further email to the unsubscribed account address with a resubscribe link.

As I said, personalised unsubscribe links are used in many mailing lists and very commonly in advertising emails so it is not a specific feature of Groups.io. People either don't think or don't realise what they are sending when they forward these types of emails to others.  I make a habit of editing out any unsubscribe links if I forward an email to someone else.

  That was one of the concerns I had too.  Also if person B fakes person A's "from" email address and sends an email to the +unsubscribe address, there is a confirmation email that only goes to person A, so person B should not be able to confirm.
If Groups.io receives an unsubscribe request via email (that apparently comes from person A), Groups.io sends a confirmation email to the account address.  The 'From' address of the confirmation email contains the group name and two strings of numbers (which is personalised information for 'A'), and when a message is sent to that address, Groups.io unsubscribes the account from the group. The message sent to that address would typically come from person A sending a reply but if person B has access to person A's email account then they could reply instead.  However, if person A forwards the confirmation email to person B (effectively giving away their credentials), then person B could send an email to that 'From' address and unsubscribe person A.  When someone unsubscribes via email, no email from Groups.io with a resubscribe link is sent.

From my limited testing over a short period of time, the 'From' address on a unsubscribe confirmation email is unique to a person and group and may not be time limited so any message sent to that address at any time would unsubscribe that person/group combination.  Why they would come back into a group with different subscription options is a mystery to me. I believe (and someone correct me if I'm wrong) that using a re-subscribe link should keep the same settings but just going through a 'standard' join process, they should end up with the group defaults (those in Default Sub Settings).


Regards
Andy W


moderated Re: Member keeps being unsubscribed, and re-joins with settings he did not set #misc

 

On Tue, Feb 23, 2021 at 08:25 PM, Andy wrote:

Could it be that somehow his web browser is automatically clicking those choices
The web-browser or its extension may be used for "acceleration" - really pre-fetch linked webpages.

Or the recipient web-server may fetch all links found in emails, to check for viruses.


moderated Re: Member receiving msgs from non-subscribed groups #bug

Andy
 

Mark, I guess you tracked down many of those suspect subscribers that forward messages to other people (https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/28546).  I see a few dozen former group members who were "banned from Groups.io via support" a few hours ago.

Oddly, they don't appear in the Past or Banned Members lists, but are in the Activity log.

Andy


moderated Re: Member keeps being unsubscribed, and re-joins with settings he did not set #misc

Andy
 

Andy Wedge,

So if person A forwards a group email to person B, and person B clicks on the "unsub" link in the footer of that email, person B should not be able to unsubscribe person A, unless person B also knows person A's login password -- right?  That was one of the concerns I had too.  Also if person B fakes person A's "from" email address and sends an email to the +unsubscribe address, there is a confirmation email that only goes to person A, so person B should not be able to confirm.

I still am almost 100% clueless what has been going on with the person in my group who gets unsubscribed and resubscribed so many times.  So the original question remains unanswered.  I THOUGHT he was doing this himself because every entry in the Activity log said "via web", but apparently that is not true at all.  My best guess at this point is that there is some sort of interaction going on in emails between Groups.io's servers and the member's email gateway, causing him to be repeatedly unsubscribed and immediately resubscribed with altered delivery settings, without the member lifting a finger.  Then Groups.io labels all that activity as "via web" even though it was entirely by email.

I note with some amusement that the link in the message footer to unsubscribe, includes "xyzzy" in the URL!

Andy I.


moderated Re: Member keeps being unsubscribed, and re-joins with settings he did not set #misc

Andy Wedge
 

On Wed, Feb 24, 2021 at 05:01 AM, Andy wrote:
So if I understand correctly, we should ignore the fact that the Activity log says "left via web" and "resumed via web".  It could actually have been done by email, but the log calls it via the web.  OK......
Not quite. If you click on the unsubscribe link in an email footer, it takes you to the web site to confirm so the final action is via the web.  If you send an email to the groupname+unsubscribe@ address, it should show via email.

Andy


moderated Display bug (parenthesis to underscores) in Files -> AddNew -> UploadFile #bug

 

Hi Mark,

See attached, when I go to upload a file in Files, if the file contains parentheses, the Upload File dialog will display them as underscores.

The file does get uploaded correctly with the parentheses and displays so, and if you click on Update the Update dialog will display it correctly, it's just the initial selection, either by Drag-n-drop or Browse, it will display the underscores.

Cheers,
Christos


moderated Re: Member keeps being unsubscribed, and re-joins with settings he did not set #misc

Jim Wilson
 

My two cents: this does not sound like a GIO problem. Their work e-mail server is far more likely the problem due to the weird "bouncing" or "greylisting" events so I would tell them to use another email address due to "an apparent incompatibility with list services."

It also sounds like they could have been hacked since leaving and re-joining is happening via the web so I would most strongly urge them to change their work email password and their GIO account password after they have changed to a new email address.

If their computer isn't fully compromised, I would bet it would would resolve their issues. If it continues, their computer is likely infected.
--
Jim


moderated Invalid entries in ICS file #bug

Ry Jones
 

Hi,
In looking into some calendar issues, I used an ICS validator and it showed quite a few issues:
Mostly invalid timezones and non-unique UIDs.
Ry
--
Ry Jones
Community Architect, Hyperledger


moderated Re: Member keeps being unsubscribed, and re-joins with settings he did not set #misc

Andy
 

So if I understand correctly, we should ignore the fact that the Activity log says "left via web" and "resumed via web".  It could actually have been done by email, but the log calls it via the web.  OK......

But why does he find himself unsubscribed so many times?  12 times in the last 24 hours.  Is someone else doing that to him, by clicking a link in a forwarded email footer, which apparently works without any member confirmation?  (Isn't that f---ed up?  Or did I misunderstand?)

And why is he re-subscribed again within 60 seconds, ever time?  Is that also someone else doing that to him?

And why does he become re-subscribed with altered delivery settings every time?

And why did all this start when he tried to fix his delivery setting?  That was what started this mess.

Why?  Do I tell him it's his own fault?  Is a malevolent third party responsible?

I can see why this member is fed up with Groups.io.  If it happened to me, I would be too.

Thanks for any suggestions.

Andy


moderated Re: Member keeps being unsubscribed, and re-joins with settings he did not set #misc

 

On Tue, Feb 23, 2021 at 12:40 PM, Andy wrote:
I don't know -- but he did say they bounce the first message, and after the
resend, they pass it through.
They may be using "greylisting" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greylisting_(email) - which is where an email server sends a temporary error response for any unrecognized sender. Proper mailers will retry after waiting a few minutes, but the theory is that spammers don't bother and just continue on with the next address on their list. That's not really a bounce, and Groups.io wouldn't record it as such, but he might not know the difference.

JohnF


moderated Updating a file in Files-Search mode doesn't work #bug

 

Hi Mark,

See attached, if one is in Files search mode (/filessearch?q=...), clicking on a file's 'Update' icon brings up an empty/incomplete dialog.  Attempting to enter something* and clicking on 'Update' does nothing and goes back to the top Files level with no search term. (*I only tested the description field)

Out of curiosity I tested the Move & Delete functions in the filessearch page and they worked, albeit the Delete dialog did not give the option to "Notify Members" as deleting it through the normal Files pages.  Both of the Move & Delete actions also take you back to the top Files level with no search term; in the normal pages, all three take you back to the same page/folder.

Also, not sure if by design, but there is the Flag/Report icon as an option in the normal Files pages but it's not there in the filessearch page.

Cheers,
Christos


moderated Database CSV Import of Mutli-Select Column #bug

Todd M. Taylor <todd.m.taylor@...>
 

Database CSV Multiple Select Column Import Bug
The CSV import process for a database that contains a "Multiple Select, Multiple Choice" column has a bug.  If the "Multiple Select, Multiple Choice" column in CSV data row has more than 1 value defined, the values are ignored even when properly formatted.

Steps to Reproduce

  1. Create a new database with a "Multiple Select, Multiple Choice" column (Ex. Column Name: "Widgets")
  2. Add multiple choices to the column definition (Ex. Choices: "A", "B", "C")
  3. Save the new database.
  4. Add a new row with "Widgets" defined as "A" and "C" and save the row.
  5. Export the database to a CSV file.   The results should look like this (Note the "quotes" around the multiple selected values):

    Widgets
    "A,C"
  6. Add data row(s) to the CSV file to give "Widgets" both single and multiple values:

    Widgets
    "A,B,C"
    "B,C"
    C
    A

  7. Use the "Import Rows" feature to import the CSV file with the new rows.  Check the "File Has Header Line" checkbox. 

    Note that the rows are added, but none of the "Widgets" that define multiple values are selected.   The bug appears to be that the import process cannot handle the multi-select values that are wrapped in quotes even though that's how the CSV file formats multi-select columns.
Here is the result of performing the above steps.   Note the missing values:


moderated Re: Member keeps being unsubscribed, and re-joins with settings he did not set #misc

Andy Wedge
 

On Tue, Feb 23, 2021 at 06:25 PM, Andy wrote:
AFAIK, these things aren't happening via email.  If someone clicked on the link in an email message, wouldn't it show that he unsubscribed via email? 
There was a discussion on that late last year (See beta message #27077)

Andy


moderated Re: Member keeps being unsubscribed, and re-joins with settings he did not set #misc

Andy
 

    "I'm wondering if he is using the word "bounce" correctly. ..."

I don't know -- but he did say they bounce the first message, and after the resend, they pass it through.

Andy


moderated Re: Member keeps being unsubscribed, and re-joins with settings he did not set #misc

Andy
 

Mark wrote this:

    "Does he forward group messages to other people? If so, they could be clicking on the Unsubscribe link in the message footers."

There is an Unsubscribe link in the message footers, online?  I don't see any.

AFAIK, these things aren't happening via email.  If someone clicked on the link in an email message, wouldn't it show that he unsubscribed via email?  All his unsubscriptions have been "via web".  (In fact, that's half the problem; he has had to use the web because Groups.io stopped sending him group messages by email.)

re: bouncing first messages:

    "Sounds like a very user hostile way of doing spam prevention."

I agree.  But I'm no expert.

I don't know if they bounce back to the sender, or only to the sender's server which retries the message.

Regardless, I THINK it's unrelated to why he keeps being unsubscribed.  Even if Groups.io dumps him because of bounced messages, that should show up in the Activity log, and anyway he is getting dumped even when there were no messages being sent.

I just tried to see what happens if I click the red "leave group" button on the Subscription page.  I get a pop-up window with the choice to stay but change my message delivery to Daily Summary or Special Notices only, or to actually leave.  Could it be that somehow his web browser is automatically clicking those choices, and activating all of them, first changing his delivery mode, then leaving the group?  Sounds far-fetched, but it seems to fit the outcome.

Also I wonder if he reads "Leave group" as meaning, "Now I'm done here so I can move on to my next group," and doesn't realize that it means to unsubscribe.  This could be a language issue, although his use of English seems very good.

Andy


moderated Re: Member keeps being unsubscribed, and re-joins with settings he did not set #misc

Peter Cook
 

On Tue, Feb 23, 2021 at 12:43 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
He says his email gateway (where he works?) bounces the first message from every new address
I'm wondering if he is using the word "bounce" correctly. One organization I volunteer for deals with anything they consider spam by simply deleting it. No bounce, no notifications, no fbl, period. So this would not show up in a GIO log.

Pete


moderated Re: Member keeps being unsubscribed, and re-joins with settings he did not set #misc

 

On Tue, Feb 23, 2021 at 9:25 AM Andy <AI.egrps+io@...> wrote:
I don't know if this is a sign of a problem.  All my instincts tell me it is user-error, but just in case it isn't, I'm reporting it here.

I have a group member with two apparent but related problems:

(1)  He keeps finding his subscription changed to one of the Daily Digest or Summary settings.  He wants individual messages only.

(2)  He keeps finding himself unsubscribed from the group.  This happened several times today alone, but before too.


Does he forward group messages to other people? If so, they could be clicking on the Unsubscribe link in the message footers.


There is one other oddity.  He says his email gateway (where he works?) bounces the first message from every new address, which they do to cut down on spam.  He has a record of bounced messages from "bounce+number@groups.io", "bounce+number+number@groups.io", etc. which their server bounced because every one came from a previously unknown sender.  Yet, his Groups.io account shows no record of any bounces, and there is nothing in the Activity log about bounces from his address.  Ever.

Sounds like a very user hostile way of doing spam prevention. 


Mark 

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