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moderated Re: Disallow concurrent "special notices" and "following only" #suggestion #bug

 


On 2021-02-08 18:22, J_Catlady via groups.io wrote:
I'll be promoting the needed-fix
Emphasis on "needed."

Yes, something is definitely needed, it's not just the bugs, but also overall easier and better user experience as well.


Thanks for the clarification.

LOL, I need an editor for my emails ... but at least there are no typaws.


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Cheers,
Christos


moderated Re: Disallow concurrent "special notices" and "following only" #suggestion #bug

 

On Mon, Feb 8, 2021 at 02:07 PM, Christos G. Psarras wrote:
I'll be promoting the needed-fix
Emphasis on "needed."
Thanks for the clarification.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Disallow concurrent "special notices" and "following only" #suggestion #bug

 

>>> It (the UI) is really in radical need of a fix and I hope this doesn't get swept under the rug.

No it's not, at least from my end

Oops, I should had bolded what I was referring to with the "No" bit, "No it's not, at least from my end" getting swept, I'll be promoting the needed-fix.




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Cheers,
Christos


moderated Re: Disallow concurrent "special notices" and "following only" #suggestion #bug

 

Yes (I'll present the whole proposal in a complete and concise manner in a new topic)

And also yes (but if we present it the right way it may increase our chances of it happening)



On 2021-02-08 15:49, J_Catlady via groups.io wrote:
On Mon, Feb 8, 2021 at 12:40 PM, Christos G. Psarras wrote:
No it's not, at least from my end
Oh, you mean it's not getting swept under the rug, you don't mean that you disagree it's in need of a fix. Good.
However, it's not up to us whether or not anything is done about this. It's obviously up to Mark.
 
--
J


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Cheers,
Christos


moderated Re: Per-member pricing is live #update

Chris Jones
 

On Mon, Feb 8, 2021 at 05:14 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
Also, a related change is that the member count on group home pages now does not include non-confirmed members.
And also does not include "Bouncers", both blue and red. Was that intentional?

Chris


moderated Re: Disallow concurrent "special notices" and "following only" #suggestion #bug

 

On Mon, Feb 8, 2021 at 12:40 PM, Christos G. Psarras wrote:
No it's not, at least from my end
Oh, you mean it's not getting swept under the rug, you don't mean that you disagree it's in need of a fix. Good.
However, it's not up to us whether or not anything is done about this. It's obviously up to Mark.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Disallow concurrent "special notices" and "following only" #suggestion #bug

 

On Mon, Feb 8, 2021 at 12:40 PM, Christos G. Psarras wrote:
Don't feel alone,
I don't. Many of my group members have fallen into this trap, which was the whole reason I brought it up here.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Disallow concurrent "special notices" and "following only" #suggestion #bug

 

>>> OMG! Listen to this. This is a case in point and the victim was me, myself and I.

Don't feel alone, I also have been undeservedly-tricked by the system a few times!


>>> It (the UI) is really in radical need of a fix and I hope this doesn't get swept under the rug.

No it's not, at least from my end, I've done too much work to just leave it here. I've been waiting for any additional input so we can have all our eggs in the basket before submitting the new topic and try to sell the basket in the market.  This topic has gotten too long, but it end up being the research & design part of the proposed solution.

>>> Christos's original plan

Lol, it's not really my plan per se; if one re-reads the entire thread things will make sense with what I proposed, I just coalesced+tweaked a bit+visually-articulated what others had already suggested or bought up.  Now the pretty graphics was exclusively my own idea, organic eggs taste and look better than farm-raised ones! :)



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Cheers,
Christos


moderated Re: Rejection message #bug

 

On Sat, Feb 6, 2021 at 9:03 AM Duane <txpigeon@...> wrote:
One of our rejection notices has quote marks, "thank you", but when selected, it shows the hmtl, &quot;thank you&quot;  Checking the notice, it appears correct, it's only when used that it's converted.  (I hope these show correctly.)

This should be fixed now.

Thanks,
Mark 


moderated Re: Disallow concurrent "special notices" and "following only" #suggestion #bug

 

Particularly confusing is this juxtaposition, because of the possible conflation of "message" and "email":

 Special Notices Only You will only receive special notices from the moderators.

No Email You will receive no emails.

As discussed before, it would be better for Special Notices Only to be grouped with the "message selection" section (currently on the Advanced Preferences page), because that's what it is: a message-selection filter, not a delivery method. But what confounds the confusion is the word "email" just below that. Because Special Notices only really is a matter of message selection rather than delivery, the brain then parses "No Email" below that to "No Messages." The result, or one of them, is that you think if you later set yourself to Following Only, the "No Email" (which your brain subconsciously turned into "No Messages") turns into "only the messages I'm following." And of course, that's not what happens. You still get no messages except special notices.

So I think it is particularly important to distinguish, in all of this, between "message" and email." One bit of language that may help is to substitute "Web Only" for "No Email."

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Member activity incomplete for Direct Added members #bug

 

On Sat, Feb 6, 2021 at 9:02 AM Andy Wedge <andy_wedge@...> wrote:

I noticed that the Member Activity list does not include the point at which a member joined a group if they were Direct Added. It does show if they accepted an invite though.  Can we include the Direct Added entry as well for a full list please?

Hmm. It should, and in a test, it did for me. Off-list, please email me the name of the list and the email address of the person you direct added.

Thanks,
Mark 


moderated Re: Disallow concurrent "special notices" and "following only" #suggestion #bug

 

>>> I fear that no matter what, if anything, is done, there will still be people that don't read the information presented, same as with guidelines or welcome messages.

You're right Duane, and that fact is the reason I personally prefer to make the option/setting title less clinical and more explanatory, if there is something of high importance in the explanation/help text which isn't really being conveyed by the title; it's even more important IMO if that option/setting is presented to the whole audience matrix.  So you just caused me a bit of additional work on this, lol jk, good hint-idea actually and I will create an alternative version of our proposal with more english option/setting titles, leaving the help text as is.

Or possibly also a 3rd version as well where the titles stay as now more-or-less (current proposal), but with the title integrated with the help text as a whole paragraph, with the title bolded.  It may encourage reading the help text because it's now flows together naturally with the title in reading the sentence.

--

Cheers,
Christos


moderated Re: Per-member pricing is live #update

 

On Mon, Feb 8, 2021 at 9:29 AM Duane <txpigeon@...> wrote:
On Mon, Feb 8, 2021 at 11:14 AM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
premium groups under the per-member pricing can have up to 500 members for $20/month (instead of 400), and additional members above that are $0.04/month.
Will the annual also change?  $0.44/yr?

Yes, that's correct.

Thanks,
Mark 


moderated Re: Per-member pricing is live #update

Duane
 

On Mon, Feb 8, 2021 at 11:14 AM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
premium groups under the per-member pricing can have up to 500 members for $20/month (instead of 400), and additional members above that are $0.04/month.
Will the annual also change?  $0.44/yr?

Thanks,
Duane


moderated Per-member pricing is live #update

 

Hi All,

The new per-member pricing is now live for newly created/upgraded groups, as discussed here. There is one change to note: premium groups under the per-member pricing can have up to 500 members for $20/month (instead of 400), and additional members above that are $0.04/month.

All premium groups now have 30GB storage.

Also, a related change is that the member count on group home pages now does not include non-confirmed members.

At this time, I have not implemented a free/paid user scheme, as first proposed by Samuel. I still think it may be a good idea, but as discussed, I think it was too complex. I may revisit it at some point.

Finally, I appreciate all the discussion over these changes.

Thanks,
Mark


moderated Re: Disallow concurrent "special notices" and "following only" #suggestion #bug

 

And again, it's a problem because No Email, while technically an email delivery method, comes across as a message selection/filter (it reads like "No Messages"). So when you choose Following Only it seems to override No Email. But we've been over that. 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Proposing a change to Hashtag page display on mobile devices #suggestion

billsf9c
 

Oh well, I will ... see if there is some kind of iPad setting that will let me override the mobile iOS display and instead see the desktop OS version displayed. It was nice to have the choice of which display version I wanted but as in all things time marches on...
Sandi Dickenson

Not on an iPh but sometimes have a similar(?) issue of late.

Sizing IO to read a mag is someyimes a.wrong size for inserted or attached info, text ir chart/etc. Must keep a.closer.eye on tbis to make a better report.

I do find 99% of IO tonbe such a tiny font that reordering my settings to allow landscape mode, (which I turn on only for rare videos,) still results in a small font that I can barely stretch enough to read. No font setting changed have altered anything, so far. Makes me feel like I've lost all ability to function is this common ph-venue.

BillSF9c


moderated Re: Disallow concurrent "special notices" and "following only" #suggestion #bug

 

On Mon, Feb 8, 2021 at 08:36 AM, Duane wrote:
Maybe we just comprehend differently, but that bit of text is a full explanation to me. 
It's a full explanation if you (a) fully understand what "email delivery setting" means and (b) didn't set your email delivery setting several months ago. Even if you understand those two, it feels psychologically - even to me, even a few days ago! - that changing to Following Only is going to increase your deliveries from No Email to the "email from the topics I'm following." It feels psychologicially (and even intellectually) like an increase. "I'm going to increase from No Email to getting the ones I'm following." It (the UI) is really in radical need of a fix and I hope this doesn't get swept under the rug.

I fear that no matter what, if anything, is done, there will still be people that don't read the information presented, same as with guidelines or welcome messages.
That can't happen if the system disallows the bad combinations. Your idea to completely disable adv prefs if no email or special notices only is set would be part of the equation. The other part would be doing the converse. Just make it so they can't exist simultaneously, and make the text much clearer so that it explains to the user that's what will happen when they change either side.

I like Christos's original plan as set forth here. Yours is good too, and there are undoubtedly others. I'm not intending to make any particular suggestions with my message this morning beyond what has already been suggested. I am just making the point that this is in great need of a fix.

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Disallow concurrent "special notices" and "following only" #suggestion #bug

Duane
 

On Mon, Feb 8, 2021 at 09:21 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
That little bit of text "according to your email delivery setting" below the Following Only option does absolutely nothing to warn people about this trap.
Maybe we just comprehend differently, but that bit of text is a full explanation to me.  Another idea would be to disable all of the Advanced Preferences everywhere if No Email or Special Notices Only is selected for that subscription.  Also adding "regardless of any advanced setting" on the No Email and Special Notices Only descriptions might help those that don't fully understand it.  I fear that no matter what, if anything, is done, there will still be people that don't read the information presented, same as with guidelines or welcome messages.

Duane


moderated Re: Disallow concurrent "special notices" and "following only" #suggestion #bug

 

OMG! Listen to this. This is a case in point and the victim was me, myself and I. 

I joined a group several months ago, setting myself up to No Email. A few days ago I got interested in a topic there and went in and "changed" myself (or so I thought) to  Following Only and clicked on Follow This Topic for that topic. Nobody in their right mind - including me, who originally pointed out this issue - is going to think at that point that they would have to undo their No Email setting in order to receive messages from a topic they had just clicked on to follow. You think - and I say this AS THE VICTIM, and as a sophisticated user, and the person who originally brought up the problem! - you think you are *increasing* the emails you receive by choosing to follow some.

So believe it or not, several days later I  couldn't understand why I was not receiving the messages from the topic I clicked to follow.  EVEN AFTER this long, drawn-out conversation, in which I myself brought up the issue on behalf of my group members, I didn't truly understand the psychology of the situation was until I experienced it. I kept checking for days, trying to match my emails with the messages onsite.

Then it dawned on me: I had to go into the OTHER page and remove my No Email setting and change myself to Individual Messages. This is where I would have used the "hit self over the head" option (Chritos's little hammer:-).

That little bit of text "according to your email delivery setting" below the Following Only option does absolutely nothing to warn people about this trap. If I fell into it, even after this discussion, others will, too. You think, when you select Following Only, that you are *changing* from No Email. You're not.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

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