Date   

moderated Re: Disallow concurrent "special notices" and "following only" #suggestion #bug

Andy Wedge
 

On Sun, Jan 24, 2021 at 03:55 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
That's right. Christos was correct about that. The original serious problem still remains, which is that members can set themselves to Special Notices Only and Following Only, and think that they will receive messages from topics they follow, but they don't. The Special Notices Only setting always takes precedence, even if they set Following Only later.
While that combination of options may not work the way some users expect, they will not miss any Special Notices due to it so I don't really see that as a 'serious problem'.

Andy


moderated Re: Disallow concurrent "special notices" and "following only" #suggestion #bug

 

On Sun, Jan 24, 2021 at 07:55 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
Christos was correct about that
Actually Peter Cook first tested this and since then I and numerous others have confirmed it.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
I'm not arguing. I'm just explaining why I am right.

My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Disallow concurrent "special notices" and "following only" #suggestion #bug

 

Also, I never claimed that was a problem. I said I had not yet tested it but that it might be. It's not.


On Sun, Jan 24, 2021 at 7:55 AM J_Catlady via groups.io <j.olivia.catlady=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
That's right. Christos was correct about that. The original serious problem still remains, which is that members can set themselves to Special Notices Only and Following Only, and think that they will receive messages from topics they follow, but they don't. The Special Notices Only setting always takes precedence, even if they set Following Only later.

On Sun, Jan 24, 2021 at 7:19 AM Andy Wedge <andy_wedge@...> wrote:
On Thu, Jan 21, 2021 at 09:33 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
My group has had several new members recently set themselves up that way. I'm sure they think that this means they will get emails from topics they follow. But they won't. They will *only* get special notices they follow, which means that they will get zero messages (under normal circumstances).
I'm trying to get back up to speed with this topic and I see that Christos confirmed what is shown on the Subscription page in the Advanced Preferences panel that they do not apply if Special Notices Only is set.  I've done my own test, setting a Member account to Special Notices and Following Only and then sending a Special Notice from my Owner account.  The Member account is not following any topics and the Special Notice email was received as expected. From my testing therefore, I don't think your original assertion that members will only receive Special Notices for topic they follow is correct.

Andy


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
I'm not arguing. I'm just explaining why I am right.

My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
I'm not arguing. I'm just explaining why I am right.

My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Disallow concurrent "special notices" and "following only" #suggestion #bug

 

That's right. Christos was correct about that. The original serious problem still remains, which is that members can set themselves to Special Notices Only and Following Only, and think that they will receive messages from topics they follow, but they don't. The Special Notices Only setting always takes precedence, even if they set Following Only later.


On Sun, Jan 24, 2021 at 7:19 AM Andy Wedge <andy_wedge@...> wrote:
On Thu, Jan 21, 2021 at 09:33 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
My group has had several new members recently set themselves up that way. I'm sure they think that this means they will get emails from topics they follow. But they won't. They will *only* get special notices they follow, which means that they will get zero messages (under normal circumstances).
I'm trying to get back up to speed with this topic and I see that Christos confirmed what is shown on the Subscription page in the Advanced Preferences panel that they do not apply if Special Notices Only is set.  I've done my own test, setting a Member account to Special Notices and Following Only and then sending a Special Notice from my Owner account.  The Member account is not following any topics and the Special Notice email was received as expected. From my testing therefore, I don't think your original assertion that members will only receive Special Notices for topic they follow is correct.

Andy


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
I'm not arguing. I'm just explaining why I am right.

My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Disallow concurrent "special notices" and "following only" #suggestion #bug

Andy Wedge
 

On Thu, Jan 21, 2021 at 09:33 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
My group has had several new members recently set themselves up that way. I'm sure they think that this means they will get emails from topics they follow. But they won't. They will *only* get special notices they follow, which means that they will get zero messages (under normal circumstances).
I'm trying to get back up to speed with this topic and I see that Christos confirmed what is shown on the Subscription page in the Advanced Preferences panel that they do not apply if Special Notices Only is set.  I've done my own test, setting a Member account to Special Notices and Following Only and then sending a Special Notice from my Owner account.  The Member account is not following any topics and the Special Notice email was received as expected. From my testing therefore, I don't think your original assertion that members will only receive Special Notices for topic they follow is correct.

Andy


moderated Re: Disallow concurrent "special notices" and "following only" #suggestion #bug

 

There is one issue with putting Special Nofices Only in the “what” (message selection) category snd the others in the “how” (format of receipt - individual, digest, or summary). The problem is that special notices should always be sent individually, in addition to being in either the digest or the summary. That would have to be made clear.


On Jan 24, 2021, at 3:10 AM, J_Catlady via groups.io <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

On Sun, Jan 24, 2021 at 12:03 AM, Shal Farley wrote:
But I realize that practically, that forces people who don't want to
receive group emails to go into their Advanced Preference page.
a) So?
Shal,

I'm with you. No real reason, just anticipating a fight to keep the status quo, or "it's too difficult for people," etc.

b) Hiding the Message Selection and other options away under Advanced Preferences was, I think, another concession to former Yahoo Groups owners and mods. The thinking being that these new features would be seen as "too complicated" for members to understand.
LOL that's exactly the kind of thinking I was talking about in my answer to (a).

So again, it may be timely to reconsider the layout of the Subscription page. Maybe rename Advanced Preferences to Message Selection and pull it up above signature, and default Signature to a closed panel. Maybe default Email Delivery to a closed panel as well, both for consistency and also to make it more likely the user will notice that there's more here than just that.
Agree that it's time. But not just the layout. The most important thing is to disallow the combination of Special Notices Only and Following Only. I assume you agree with that, because that's really the basis of my thread. The details don't concern me as much as changing to a format that reflects the logic. The current one doesn't and besides being confusing to group members, it allows them to actually put themselves in a bind. with respect to receiving messages.

I would be interested to hear your thoughts on how to handle the secondary place (mentioned by Andy) where it's possible to set to Special Notices Only. That panel suffers from the same "display logic" (mixing up the "what" with the "how") on top of duplicating/allowing the same problem, and making thigs slightly worse because in the duplication, there's no clarity about the disallowal of the problematic combination (which, again, I assume you agree with). It has to be coordinated with the other panel , or panels, to (a) also implement the disallowal and (b) also make the disallowal clear to the user somehow.

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
I'm not arguing. I'm just explaining why I am right.

My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
I'm not arguing. I'm just explaining why I am right.

My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Disallow concurrent "special notices" and "following only" #suggestion #bug

 

On Sun, Jan 24, 2021 at 12:03 AM, Shal Farley wrote:
But I realize that practically, that forces people who don't want to
receive group emails to go into their Advanced Preference page.
a) So?
Shal,

I'm with you. No real reason, just anticipating a fight to keep the status quo, or "it's too difficult for people," etc.

b) Hiding the Message Selection and other options away under Advanced Preferences was, I think, another concession to former Yahoo Groups owners and mods. The thinking being that these new features would be seen as "too complicated" for members to understand.
LOL that's exactly the kind of thinking I was talking about in my answer to (a).

So again, it may be timely to reconsider the layout of the Subscription page. Maybe rename Advanced Preferences to Message Selection and pull it up above signature, and default Signature to a closed panel. Maybe default Email Delivery to a closed panel as well, both for consistency and also to make it more likely the user will notice that there's more here than just that.
Agree that it's time. But not just the layout. The most important thing is to disallow the combination of Special Notices Only and Following Only. I assume you agree with that, because that's really the basis of my thread. The details don't concern me as much as changing to a format that reflects the logic. The current one doesn't and besides being confusing to group members, it allows them to actually put themselves in a bind. with respect to receiving messages.

I would be interested to hear your thoughts on how to handle the secondary place (mentioned by Andy) where it's possible to set to Special Notices Only. That panel suffers from the same "display logic" (mixing up the "what" with the "how") on top of duplicating/allowing the same problem, and making thigs slightly worse because in the duplication, there's no clarity about the disallowal of the problematic combination (which, again, I assume you agree with). It has to be coordinated with the other panel , or panels, to (a) also implement the disallowal and (b) also make the disallowal clear to the user somehow.

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
I'm not arguing. I'm just explaining why I am right.

My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Disallow concurrent "special notices" and "following only" #suggestion #bug

 

J,

"Special Notices" is not really an "email delivery method." It's a
filter, more akin to the Following Only filters. Logically, it makes
more sense to put that filter on the Advanced Preference page along
with the rest, instead of under "email delivery method."
Agreed.

I think the only reason it is the way it is was to keep the Email Delivery options comparable to Yahoo Groups. That's now an extinct reason, so it may be timely to reconsider it.

But I realize that practically, that forces people who don't want to
receive group emails to go into their Advanced Preference page.
a) So?

b) Hiding the Message Selection and other options away under Advanced Preferences was, I think, another concession to former Yahoo Groups owners and mods. The thinking being that these new features would be seen as "too complicated" for members to understand.

So again, it may be timely to reconsider the layout of the Subscription page. Maybe rename Advanced Preferences to Message Selection and pull it up above signature, and default Signature to a closed panel. Maybe default Email Delivery to a closed panel as well, both for consistency and also to make it more likely the user will notice that there's more here than just that.

That does leave Max Attachment size as a stand-alone. I'm not sure what to do about that.

Shal


moderated Re: #bug First attachment doesn't show up in new topic #bug

 

Doesn't matter for this testing, he doesn't have to actually send the message, he can discard it;  we're just testing the editor's AttachFile functionality.

Cheers,
Christos

On 2021-01-24 01:52, Dave Sergeant via groups.io wrote:
Trying to send 10MB files via email is asking for trouble.


moderated Re: #bug First attachment doesn't show up in new topic #bug

Dave Sergeant
 

Trying to send 10MB files via email is asking for trouble.

Dave

On 23 Jan 2021 at 14:43, Christos G. Psarras wrote:

Bob, try again but with a 10+ Mb PDF file, see if it fails for you as
well.

http://davesergeant.com


moderated Re: #bug First attachment doesn't show up in new topic #bug

 

On Sat, Jan 23, 2021 at 05:19 PM, Joanie wrote:
Mine was a 414KB pdf file.
I tried it 3-4 times and works fine for me; only very large files cause the same problem to me. 

Are you saying this exact file you attached gave you the problem before? (but it worked fine this time?)

Cheers,
Christos


moderated Re: #bug First attachment doesn't show up in new topic #bug

 

On Sat, Jan 23, 2021 at 05:00 PM, Bob Bellizzi wrote:
Tried again and it still worked ok for me
Bob, try again but with a 10+ Mb PDF file, see if it fails for you as well.

I can consistently reproduce the error with very large (PDF & TXT) files; I don't get it with smaller files (<~9 Mb)

Cheers,
Christos


moderated #bug Folder Photos, "emailed photos" search function, no results ????? #bug

Alain Mionnet
 

Hi Mark,
 
In the title.
How does it work?
Because nothing as result....
I have searched "IMSTP" , I was waiting all the small pictures table.
Blank page...
I have supposed that for many returns in the search  the  page have a size trouble but no , same for my group with fews pictures in "emailed photos" (20).
Initial was here:
https://groups.io/g/listeATV
Where I am a moderator.
 
By the way, it seems that the record is on the name and the date but....if many time the same picture we lost many space.
Possible rule:
-on name, if already exist, if same size  it is the same , not re-load.
-if later a picture no more exists, it could be taken the picture with the name only.(because owner or moderator have cleaned it)

Why  many time the same picture?
-used in the e-mail signature.
-re-send with reply function with all the content.
So for listATV, IMSTP12.gif is stored around 80 times in "Emailed photos" folder.

Thank you for your help.

Alain
https://groups.io/g/advantestinstrument
owner


moderated Re: #bug First attachment doesn't show up in new topic #bug

Joanie
 

Christos,

Mine was a 414KB pdf file. I attached it and it worked first time in the reply.

Bob,

Here's the system information. I already posted the browser and version in the first post.

OS Name Microsoft Windows 10 Home
Version 10.0.19041 Build 19041
Other OS Description Not Available
OS Manufacturer Microsoft Corporation
System Name DESKTOP-C2HGIFU
System Manufacturer LENOVO
System Model 20BG0014US
System Type x64-based PC
System SKU LENOVO_MT_20BG
Processor Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4800MQ CPU @ 2.70GHz, 2694 Mhz, 4 Core(s), 8 Logical Processor(s)
BIOS Version/Date LENOVO GNET61WW (2.09 ), 2/18/2014
SMBIOS Version 2.7
Embedded Controller Version 1.10
BIOS Mode Legacy
BaseBoard Manufacturer LENOVO
BaseBoard Product 20BG0014US
BaseBoard Version 0B98401 Pro
Platform Role Mobile
Secure Boot State Unsupported
PCR7 Configuration Binding Not Possible
Windows Directory C:\WINDOWS
System Directory C:\WINDOWS\system32
Boot Device \Device\HarddiskVolume1
Locale United States
Hardware Abstraction Layer Version = "10.0.19041.488"
User Name DESKTOP-C2HGIFU\john_
Time Zone Pacific Standard Time
Installed Physical Memory (RAM) 16.0 GB
Total Physical Memory 15.6 GB
Available Physical Memory 9.77 GB
Total Virtual Memory 17.3 GB
Available Virtual Memory 10.4 GB
Page File Space 1.64 GB
Page File C:\pagefile.sys
Kernel DMA Protection Off
Virtualization-based security Not enabled
Device Encryption Support Reasons for failed automatic device encryption: PCR7 binding is not supported, Hardware Security Test Interface failed and device is not Modern Standby, Un-allowed DMA capable bus/device(s) detected
Hyper-V - VM Monitor Mode Extensions Yes
Hyper-V - Second Level Address Translation Extensions Yes
Hyper-V - Virtualization Enabled in Firmware No
Hyper-V - Data Execution Protection Yes

Hugs,

Joanie


moderated Re: #bug First attachment doesn't show up in new topic #bug

Bob Bellizzi
 

Tried again and it still worked ok for me.
Both tries were with no subject and no body text.
What device r u using?  What browser, is the file local or in the cloud like dropbox,etc, etc?
I'm on a new Gamer PC this time and it worked.
the first test was on an HP PC Intel I7
Both are Chrome and my network is xfinity.

--

Bob Bellizzi


moderated Re: #bug First attachment doesn't show up in new topic #bug

 

Joanie,

I was able to (more or less) consistently reproduce the error but with LARGE files only.

There seems to be some refresh-timing issue that causes this, I'll post a more detailed follow-up message with my test findings, they should help Mark pinpoint exactly where the problem is, but I had the same problem with > 9 Mb PDF, > 12 Mb TXT, and > 15 Mb or so JPEG; smaller sizes worked fine.

How large where the files you had problem with?  Have you tried it with smaller size and/or less-complex PDF?

Cheers,
Christos


moderated Re: #bug First attachment doesn't show up in new topic #bug

Joanie
 

It seems very intermittent. I just tried again with subject only and it didn't show up. I tried to refresh my browser screen after I did the attachment but that did not help.

It manifests itself as sending two attachments with the message because if you don't see the first one then you try a second time. The second one shows up and then you press send and it sends a message with the duplicate attachment.

It's more of an annoyance but there may be an underlying problem that is larger. Not sure.


moderated Re: #bug First attachment doesn't show up in new topic #bug

 

This could explain why so many of my group members send duplicate attachments. 


On Jan 23, 2021, at 9:59 AM, Joanie <joanie.m.nightingale@...> wrote:

start a new topic. Press the paper clip (attachment). browse for the file on your laptop and select one. I've tried jpg and pdf file types. Then Add the attachment to the topic. The file information is not displayed below the text box for the message. If you do this operation twice then the file is displayed below the text box but when send the message you'll that both attachments are in the topic.

Not sure if this occurs on a reply to a topic when attaching a message.

Windows 10 64-bit running Chrome Version 87.0.4280.141 (Official Build) (64-bit)

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
I'm not arguing. I'm just explaining why I am right.

My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: #bug First attachment doesn't show up in new topic #bug

Joanie
 

It only occurs when you don't have a subject or any message text prior to adding the attachment. If you have either a subject or some message text then it shows up.


moderated Re: #bug First attachment doesn't show up in new topic #bug

Joanie
 

Very weird. I'll try to narrow it down.

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