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moderated Re: What is the algorithm for the display order of groups after entering a keyword search? #misc

 

Ok, I want to turn this thread into a #suggestion.

1. In Find or Create a group, when someone enters a search term, don't eliminate the other criteria. Let the user still select between "Newest," "Most Popular," and "Most Active" if there are ties within the names.

2. Within the categories above, if entered:
  • prioritize groups that have the search term within the actual group name as opposed to just within the description
  • prioritize upper case (not lowercase) names, or if possible don't use that criterion at all (preferable IMO)
  • prioritize alpha, rather than reverse alpha, names as currently (or possibly don't use that criterion at all, preferable IMO - the group name is irrelevant except as it relates to the actual search term)
  • If possible: If the term is in the group description only, rather than in the group name, prioritize groups where the term occurs earlier on in the description (e.g. "This group is for bananas" takes priority over "This group is about anything having to do with jungles, wild animals, ecology, and bananas" if the search term is "bananas")
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: What is the algorithm for the display order of groups after entering a keyword search? #misc

 

On Wed, Nov 18, 2020 at 07:05 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
So a group "Bananas for Monkeys"
assuming the search term is "bananas"
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: What is the algorithm for the display order of groups after entering a keyword search? #misc

 

I think I see what you're saying. You're both saying the search returns all the possible results, and then sorts them according to the actual group name with no consideration of (a) where the search term appears in the group (in the name? only in the description? early or late in the description?) or (b) any other criteria relating to the group (dates and other stats). So a group "Bananas for Monkeys" with description "Bananas for monkeys is the only allowable topic in this group," 2,000 members, 10,000 topics, and last post one hour ago, that will display BELOW the group "jungle fun" with description "Anything about jungles can be discussed here, including wild animals, rain forests, ecology, and bananas" with 1 member, last post 1 year ago, and 2 topics simply because its name is lowercase. Is that what you're saying?
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: What is the algorithm for the display order of groups after entering a keyword search? #misc

 

I'm still not making this clear. What is the search algorithm and why does it not take into account the categories "Newest," "Most Popular," and "Most Active" available on the left? If you enter a name, those go out the window and the search reverts to "By Name." And even in "By Name" I don't understand the criterion. When you say "Alpha order by lowercase,..." etc., are you saying that the group title is not included in that, and that the description takes precedence? Because that's seemingly what happens in some cases (but again, not all, and seems completely random). I'm waiting for Mark to explain the algorithm. I don't care about Premium vs. Basic (although my group is premium and could benefit from the boost, that's not a criterion I would want to see as a user/non-mod - I'd just want to see ALL the groups irrespective of whether or not they're paying money to be in the list).

My immediate suggestion would be that when someone enters a word for the search, rather than reverting to "By Name" you could still select one of "Newest," "Most Popular," and "Most Active" (rather than those being disabled). And even if we get that, I still don't have any conception of how the by-name ordering is calculated.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: What is the algorithm for the display order of groups after entering a keyword search? #misc

 

Duane is right. When I search for "feline", the groups are sorted like:

winn
tanyackd
petdiabetes
nierenkranke-katze
nhff
. . .
bengalcatrescue
WholeCatHealthIO
SpaceFrontiers
. . .

(They all have "feline" in the description.)

That's reverse alphabetical order by lowercase, followed by reverse alphabetical order by uppercase, without regard to group size or history or activity.

Someone could create a group "zzzzzzzzzzz" with a bunch of terms in the description and appear at the top of the search results for each of those terms.

I'm not sure of the limitations of Elasticsearch, but there should be a better way to sort the list, probably by reverse message volume (higher number of messages means higher in the results). Possibly premium groups before basic groups, which would be another perk of premium.

JohnF


moderated Re: What is the algorithm for the display order of groups after entering a keyword search? #misc

 

Another incompehensible example: this group
1 Member, 1 Topic, Public Archive, Last Post: Mar 14
displays nearly at the top of the list. Whereas my group, with hundreds of members, thousands of topics, and last post yesterday (rather than 7 months ago) is pages below it.

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated payment clarification #misc

Duane
 

Mornin' Mark,

A situation has come up that we'd like some clarification on.  A group owner (OwnerA) passed away, so another owner (OwnerB) is in charge.  OwnerA had paid for the year to get the transfer done.  We're trying to figure out how to be sure that the card for OwnerA won't be charged for a renewal since the group plans to drop back to Basic.

OwnerB has deleted OwnerA from the group
OwnerB has entered a credit card so he can see the View/Change Plan button to, hopefully, change the plan to Basic

Unanswered questions:
Can a non-mod/owner account be charged for a renewal? (If OwnerA had only been changed to member)
Can a non-member be charged, as in this case?
Can there be more than one payor for a group?
Why does an owner/mod need to enter a CC in order to view/change plans?

Any other details that might be pertinent would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Duane


moderated Re: What is the algorithm for the display order of groups after entering a keyword search? #misc

Tracy <tracy@...>
 

Speaking of ordering, no one ever did take under consideration the other week my suggestion about "Manage my Subscriptions" to be at the top of the "Your Groups" pull down did they?

On 11/18/20 9:14 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
Thanks but I still don't understand the example. Hopefully Mark will explain. It seems that my group is appearing lower and lower in the ordering (and is now on page 2) for groups containing the word "feline," despite having more activity than some others appearing closer to the top, more members, etc. It seemed to me for awhile that maybe the newer groups are displaying first despite less activity (etc) but that does not seem to be the case, either. It seemed that maybe groups with the word "feline" appearing in the title, rather than in just the description, are displaying first, but that also does not seem to be the case. I cannot discern any criterion and that's why I'm asking Mark.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


-- 
Tracy Johnson
BT







NNNN


moderated Re: What is the algorithm for the display order of groups after entering a keyword search? #misc

 

For example, a group without the word "feline" in the title (upper or lower case), with these stats
"32 Members, 6 Topics, Private Archive, Restricted, Last Post: Sep 10"

now displays third. Whereas my group, with an order of magnitude more members and thousand more topics, and with last post yesterday, does not show up until you scroll to page 2. The smaller group *was* created later than my group (10/30/19) but that does not explain its high order, either, because a group showing up above it was created five years ago.

I can't see any rhyme or reason to the display order and am concerned that my group is showing up lower and lower down for some unknown reason, and despite a lot of activity, more members than some others, created before some others (and simultaneously those others have less activity and fewer members), and lower than others that don't even have the word in their titles but rather just in their descriptions.

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: What is the algorithm for the display order of groups after entering a keyword search? #misc

 

On Wed, Nov 18, 2020 at 06:14 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
and that's why I'm asking Mark
...what the algorithm is. If it's just Elastisearch, then that implies there's nothing about group population, creation date, last activity date, etc. And that seems wrong.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: What is the algorithm for the display order of groups after entering a keyword search? #misc

 

Thanks but I still don't understand the example. Hopefully Mark will explain. It seems that my group is appearing lower and lower in the ordering (and is now on page 2) for groups containing the word "feline," despite having more activity than some others appearing closer to the top, more members, etc. It seemed to me for awhile that maybe the newer groups are displaying first despite less activity (etc) but that does not seem to be the case, either. It seemed that maybe groups with the word "feline" appearing in the title, rather than in just the description, are displaying first, but that also does not seem to be the case. I cannot discern any criterion and that's why I'm asking Mark.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: What is the algorithm for the display order of groups after entering a keyword search? #misc

Duane
 

On Wed, Nov 18, 2020 at 07:53 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
No comprendo. What’s the search term in that?
It was a hypothetical example.  If all of the group descriptions contained the word FUN, and those were the only groups that did, that's the order they'd show up, top to bottom.  It would include the other information normally found with a group listing.  The results page shows as Publicly Listed Groups (by Name).  For an actual example, use the word GIFT (upper or lower case is fine.)  The sort order is probably a function of the way Elasticsearch finds things.

Duane


moderated Re: What is the algorithm for the display order of groups after entering a keyword search? #misc

 

Duane,

No comprendo. What’s the search term in that? And is that display top to bottom? Are you saying that if the search term is “balloon,” then groups with balloon capitalized in their name are displayed below, not above, groups with that word in all lowercase? If so I don’t understand the rationale. And this says nothing about other criteria - activity, number of members, various dates (creation, etc). I’m sure these exist.???


On Nov 18, 2020, at 5:39 AM, Duane <txpigeon@...> wrote:

On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 11:20 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
In "Find or Create a Group," if you enter a search term, what is the algorithm for the display order? I can't discern any pattern.
I believe the default is descending lower case, followed by descending upper case, according to group name.  For example:
water
balloon
Water
Balloon

Duane

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: What is the algorithm for the display order of groups after entering a keyword search? #misc

Duane
 

On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 11:20 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
In "Find or Create a Group," if you enter a search term, what is the algorithm for the display order? I can't discern any pattern.
I believe the default is descending lower case, followed by descending upper case, according to group name.  For example:
water
balloon
Water
Balloon

Duane


moderated What is the algorithm for the display order of groups after entering a keyword search? #misc

 

Mark,
In "Find or Create a Group," if you enter a search term, what is the algorithm for the display order? I can't discern any pattern. Thanks.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Send and Discard buttons too close together #suggestion

Bruce Bowman
 

On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 05:24 AM, Andy Wedge wrote:
Or perhaps a prompt to confirm the Discard like we see on so many other Groups.io actions.
This would work for me, too...and already exists for bulk deletion of drafts from the Drafts tab.

Bruce


moderated Re: Member Directory Search fails if member name is an email address #bug

Bruce Bowman
 

On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 11:02 AM, Terry Slattery wrote:
If Display Name is not set, would the member not appear in the Directory?
It is currently possible to share your profile without populating Display Name. I am proposing a change to eliminate that, forcing the person to populate it before sharing the profile with others.

If that's the case, what name would be displayed in a posting by that member?

The current mechanism uses the email frag as a proxy for the Display Name for some functions...
Correct.

If Display Name is not populated, a posting (or Directory entry) is tagged with that person's system-wide @Username, if they have one. If they have neither a group Display Name nor a system-wide @Username, the post is labeled with the obfuscated email address myaddress@....

Forcing a person to populate Display Name before sharing their profile would eliminate your searching concerns...other subscribers can then search on the Display Name without having to know anything about that person's email address. It would also help to address concerns expressed by others about the security of displaying the fragmentary email address.

Regards,
Bruce


moderated Re: Send and Discard buttons too close together #suggestion

Marv Waschke
 

An "Are you sure?" gate protects against fat brains as well as fat fingers, which is a bigger problem for me than fat fingers.  Best, Marv


moderated Re: Member Directory Search fails if member name is an email address #bug

Terry Slattery <tcs@...>
 

If Display Name is not set, would the member not appear in the Directory? If that's the case, what name would be displayed in a posting by that member?

The current mechanism uses the email frag as a proxy for the Display Name for some functions, like the name in a posting and in the Directory if manually searched. It came up because I was going to recommend that Member1 search for Member2 to send a private email instead of asking on the list. Member2 only had an email frag for the Display Name, which wouldn't match in a search, but could be found by manually paging through the Directory. Thus, the email frag is not truly hidden, creating inconsistency and false security for anyone who thought that not setting a Display Name would keep them hidden.


moderated For individual email messages add space between message and footer #suggestion

Mdivine <nextdoorsb@...>
 

Adding a line space or two at end of each individual email message as it goes out, before footer.
Will make it easier to read message.

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