Date   

moderated Re: Problems replying to digest messages? #misc

 

On Thu, Oct 29, 2020 at 08:03 AM, West Coast Compañeros Staff wrote:
I can't find any mention of this bug on Mozilla's support site for Thunderbird, but the site is a pretty confusing maze.
BTW I never knew anything about TB before this, but when I looked it up I found that Mozilla no longer owns it. Or something. You probably know more about this than I do.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Problems replying to digest messages? #misc

 

"TB for Windows 78.4.0 (64-bit)"
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Problems replying to digest messages? #misc

 

Asking her now. Thanks.


On Oct 29, 2020, at 8:03 AM, West Coast Compañeros Staff <westcoastcompaneros@...> wrote:

On Mon, Oct 26, 2020 at 08:32 AM, West Coast Compañeros Staff wrote:
On Sun, Oct 25, 2020 at 04:47 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
The situation is that she's trying to reply to an individual message via email within a digest, and this is what she says happens: 
"When I click on Reply to Group on the message it opens a completely blank new tab in my email program (Thunderbird) (not even send etc. fields) and I can't use it to respond. Any idea what's going on? I used to be able to respond directly from the messages or digests in Yahoo and I'm pretty sure I've done so in io also, but for a while now this is how it's behaved."
--
J
J,

I can reproduce this error using the current release of Thunderbird for Macintosh, version 78.4.0. It happens whenever I try to reply to a message using the footer links (either Reply to Group or Reply to Sender), whether it is an individual message or in a digest. A new tab opens in Thunderbird with the title "Loading..." and nothing further happens. (See attached screenshot.) If this is not the case in Thunderbird for Windows, it would point to a bug in Thunderbird for Mac. If it also occurs in Thunderbird for Windows then I would be surprised that it has not been reported before now. In that case it could be a general Thunderbird bug or it could be due to the way Groups.io formulates the footer reply links.

The workarounds for an individual message is 1) to use the Thunderbird interface to reply to the group (or to the sender, if the individual's email address is known). or 2) to make the reply using the Groups.io web interface. The only way to reply to a message In a digest is to use the Groups.io web interface.

Robert R.
J,

Can you ask the member with the footer-link "Reply to Group" problem whether she is using Thunderbird for Windows or Thunderbird for Macintosh? A version number would also be useful. This bug is definitely occurring in the interaction between Thunderbird and Groups.io, and it will help to determine the source of the error if we know whether it also affects Windows users or is restricted to Mac users. So far I can't find any mention of this bug on Mozilla's support site for Thunderbird, but the site is a pretty confusing maze.

Robert R.

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Problems replying to digest messages? #misc

West Coast Compañeros Staff
 

On Mon, Oct 26, 2020 at 08:32 AM, West Coast Compañeros Staff wrote:
On Sun, Oct 25, 2020 at 04:47 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
The situation is that she's trying to reply to an individual message via email within a digest, and this is what she says happens: 
"When I click on Reply to Group on the message it opens a completely blank new tab in my email program (Thunderbird) (not even send etc. fields) and I can't use it to respond. Any idea what's going on? I used to be able to respond directly from the messages or digests in Yahoo and I'm pretty sure I've done so in io also, but for a while now this is how it's behaved."
--
J
J,

I can reproduce this error using the current release of Thunderbird for Macintosh, version 78.4.0. It happens whenever I try to reply to a message using the footer links (either Reply to Group or Reply to Sender), whether it is an individual message or in a digest. A new tab opens in Thunderbird with the title "Loading..." and nothing further happens. (See attached screenshot.) If this is not the case in Thunderbird for Windows, it would point to a bug in Thunderbird for Mac. If it also occurs in Thunderbird for Windows then I would be surprised that it has not been reported before now. In that case it could be a general Thunderbird bug or it could be due to the way Groups.io formulates the footer reply links.

The workarounds for an individual message is 1) to use the Thunderbird interface to reply to the group (or to the sender, if the individual's email address is known). or 2) to make the reply using the Groups.io web interface. The only way to reply to a message In a digest is to use the Groups.io web interface.

Robert R.
J,

Can you ask the member with the footer-link "Reply to Group" problem whether she is using Thunderbird for Windows or Thunderbird for Macintosh? A version number would also be useful. This bug is definitely occurring in the interaction between Thunderbird and Groups.io, and it will help to determine the source of the error if we know whether it also affects Windows users or is restricted to Mac users. So far I can't find any mention of this bug on Mozilla's support site for Thunderbird, but the site is a pretty confusing maze.

Robert R.


moderated Re: Blacklisting - using multiple IP addresses? #suggestion

 

Mark,

If I had to guess, it's people direct adding email addresses that had
been bouncing on Y! Groups for many years now. I don't know how to
prevent that behavior.
Nor do the people involved.

It /was/ possible to download the Bouncing list, before last year's October surprise. It hasn't been available since then. But even before then the need to subtract that list from the Manage Members list would not have been obvious to all, and a way to do it (other than manually) would have been known to fewer. And then there's Yahoo's false-negatives, which got by the Easy Group Transfer mechanism, and by me for the handful of Yahoo Groups I've helped manually migrate.

Also, I've probably Direct Added a few hundred bouncing addresses to my PTA group (with its inevitable typos, misremembered, misspelled, or illegibly scrawled registration lists). In that process I acted with deliberate disregard for the possibility that the list might contain addresses that would bounce - I have been deliberately using Direct Add plus Groups.io's bounce tracking to vet those lists. It seems like the only practical way.

I did not expect that this could in any way cause a problem for Groups.io.

Certainly in the past, the reason we've been put on blocklists was
because of premium groups direct adding bad addresses to their groups.
I wonder here if the nature of "bad" isn't "bouncing", but rather addresses that do NOT bounce -- but are spamtraps. I would think just bad as in "no such user" addresses have to turn up far too frequently in Direct Ads to be what triggered two blocks so widely separated in time (and not be blocked every day). Especially given that you suspend sending to the hard bouncing addresses rather immediately.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spamtrap (for readers who don't know)

How a spamtrap address would get into a Yahoo Groups members list I don't know. Probably it dates back to when Direct Add existed in Yahoo Groups, but that doesn't answer the question of how it ended up in some group owner's list to add.

Shal


moderated Re: All member data is restored except "notes" when member leaves and rejoins - please include that also #suggestion

 

On Wed, Oct 28, 2020 at 12:13 PM, Bruce Bowman wrote:
Are you talking about Member Notes? ..... that's a problem (although I don't know how "glaring" it is
Don't know how it's referred to in documentation. It's entitled simply "Notes" on the page itself.
I said it was a glaring exception to what's restored. Whether or not it's a glaring problem depends on how you use it.:-)  I use it extensively for information about my members and their cats and restoring it when someone leaves and comes back is difficult.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: All member data is restored except "notes" when member leaves and rejoins - please include that also #suggestion

Bruce Bowman
 

J -- Are you talking about Member Notes?

I use Member Notes mainly to log past issues with each user's compliance with group guidelines. If this can be cleared by simply leaving and rejoining, I agree that's a problem (although I don't know how "glaring" it is.)  :-)

Regards,
Bruce


moderated Re: Problems replying to digest messages? #misc

 

On Wed, Oct 28, 2020 at 10:36 AM, Chris Jones wrote:
Any chance of a screenshot or two from the bottom of the digest?
Not sure what you mean. There's nothing unusual about the digest. Do you mean a screenshot of her blank Thunderbird windwo when she tries to reply?
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Problems replying to digest messages? #misc

Chris Jones
 

On Wed, Oct 28, 2020 at 04:58 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
Her email is just not handling a reply link.
Any chance of a screenshot or two from the bottom of the digest?

Chris


moderated Re: Problems replying to digest messages? #misc

ro-esp
 

On Tue, Oct 27, 2020 at 07:59 PM, ro-esp wrote:


If you want to reply from your own email, you click the "reply" of
your
email and delete the stuff in the digest that you don't reply to, and
change the subjectline to that of the thread you are replying to.
and apparently, that does work, AND gets threaded properly.

I'm not sure whether the line
"Do not reply to this email. To reply to one of the messages in the digest, click on the link at the bottom of the message." should be changed

groetjes/ĝis, Ronaldo


moderated Re: Problems replying to digest messages? #misc

 

She doesn't want to reply to sender. She wants to post a reply in the group. In any case, for all I know that may not work for her either. I doubt Reply to Sender or Reply to Group has anything to do with this. Her email is just not handling a reply link.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Problems replying to digest messages? #misc

Judy F.
 

Maybe I'm missing something in this thread, but if she is only wanting to reply to one message in a digest, she should click on Reply to Sender and it will go directly to the person that wrote the original message. 

Judy F.
SW Florida - USA


moderated Re: Problems replying to digest messages? #misc

ro-esp
 

From: J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2020 18:12:02 CET
On Tue, Oct 27, 2020 at 10:07 AM, ro-esp wrote:


The situation is that she's trying to reply to an individual message via
email
within a digest, and this is what she says happens:
" When I click on Reply to Group on the message
Why would you do that? that's supposed to take you to the
iogroups-website.
If you want to reply from your own email, you click the "reply" of your
email and delete the stuff in the digest that you don't reply to, and
change the subjectline to that of the thread you are replying to.
This is what I'm trying now

"Why would you do that"? Because the digest specifically says at the top "do not reply to this email.
Good point, but that's just MF's preference. In some cases replying to several messages in one thread at the same time makes sense


To reply click reply-to-group below
any message." That is not the option that takes you to the site.
It takes you to the part of the site where you compose your reply. At leas that's how it works in plain-digests

That's a different option, "view/reply online." There is no "reply to this message" in a digest.
I agree that there is no "reply to this digest" -link, but as a digest is an email-message, you can (ab)use the reply (and edit out the "noreply" thingy...IF YOU INSIST on replying by email)

Now let's see how this message is threaded

groetjes, Ronaldo


moderated All member data is restored except "notes" when member leaves and rejoins - please include that also #suggestion

 

When a member leaves a group and then rejoins, the member's activity log and member page are thankfully fully restored, with one glaring exception: the Notes page is absent. Hoping that can be made to return as well.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Groups.io Allegedly Blacklisted #misc

ro-esp
 

On Mon, Oct 26, 2020 at 07:22 PM, John Wirtz SF wrote:

Imagine if your postman filtered your
mail before he put it through your letter box. That’s exactly what these
providers are doing, making decisions for us and not giving us any support
to fix it and authenticate our business activity.
Yes, that's one reason I am with a "small" ( thousands of subscribers) provider and happily paying a few euro. It uses spamassassin, which means I can (/have to) check my spambox for "ham" and unflag it.

groetjes/ĝis, Ronaldo


moderated Re: Problems replying to digest messages? #misc

 

On Tue, Oct 27, 2020 at 10:07 AM, ro-esp wrote:
The situation is that she's trying to reply to an individual message via email
within a digest, and this is what she says happens:
" When I click on Reply to Group on the message
Why would you do that? that's supposed to take you to the iogroups-website.
If you want to reply from your own email, you click the "reply" of your email and delete the stuff in the digest that you don't reply to, and change the subjectline to that of the thread you are replying to.
"Why would you do that"? Because the digest specifically says at the top "do not reply to this email. To reply click reply-to-group below any message." That is not the option that takes you to the site. That's a different option, "view/reply online." There is no "reply to this message" in a digest. There is only "view/reply online" and "reply to group."
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Problems replying to digest messages? #misc

ro-esp
 

On Mon, Oct 26, 2020 at 12:47 AM, J_Catlady wrote:


The situation is that she's trying to reply to an individual message via email
within a digest, and this is what she says happens:
" When I click on Reply to Group on the message
Why would you do that? that's supposed to take you to the iogroups-website.
If you want to reply from your own email, you click the "reply" of your email and delete the stuff in the digest that you don't reply to, and change the subjectline to that of the thread you are replying to.


So to reply via email to a digest message, do you have to be logged into
groups.io in that same browser in order for the message to post, and otherwise
the message just disappears?
If you click "reply to this message" it should take you to the website of the io-group, right away

groetjes/ĝis, Ronaldo


moderated Re: Blacklisting - using multiple IP addresses? #suggestion

Bill Burns
 

I recently moved a notification-only group from Yahoo. I established it in 2005 with no restrictions on who could join, and it now has about 250 members. After setting up a new group here I sent invitations to all of them, and I now have 66 members.

I would never do a direct add from an old group such as this.

Bill

On 27-Oct-20 10:09 AM, Bärbel Stephenson wrote:
People migrating groups from Yahoo have no idea how many bad addresses they have as the yahoo system has been broken for years.
Bigger groups, who migrated before now, often found that up to 1/3 of the addresses in the group are no longer working.  Recently I unsubscribed almost half of the members of a group (over 300 members when migrated) and most of those addresses had never worked after making it to io groups.
Barbara


moderated Re: Blacklisting - using multiple IP addresses? #suggestion

Mo
 

Hi Mark,

Could you not add a temporary rule on Adding along the lines of your "bouncing request" first before the add is processed?  

Regards
Mo


moderated Re: Blacklisting - using multiple IP addresses? #suggestion

Bärbel Stephenson
 

John,

People migrating groups from Yahoo have no idea how many bad addresses they have as the yahoo system has been broken for years.
Bigger groups, who migrated before now, often found that up to 1/3 of the addresses in the group are no longer working.  Recently I unsubscribed almost half of the members of a group (over 300 members when migrated) and most of those addresses had never worked after making it to io groups.

Barbara

On Tue, Oct 27, 2020 at 1:58 PM John Wirtz SF <john@...> wrote:

Mark, 

 

Thanks for all your hard work on this.  It’s a thankless task at times.

 

Re “I don't know how to prevent that behaviour”: you might need to publish some administrator guidelines.  One thing that is necessary is house-keeping.  Administrators need to do a minimum to keep their data up to date, review the meber list at regular intervals specially those that run open groups.

 

I don’t allow anyone to join unless I have some indication they are a genuine person.  If we get an anonymous application and can’t trace the sender, we ask them to provide a minimum of info.  You’d be surprised how many of those request remain unanswered.  So, it’s worth checking.

 

When I first joined the premium service, the one facility I wanted was “direct join”.  All recipients can reject the invitation if they want so I don’t consider it being intrusive.

But I’d request improvement to the member database and the ability to sort, the splitting up of display name into “First “and “Last Name”.  It would be really good if w could set up a weekly/monthly report on bouncing or problematic addresses.

 

I know you can get these reports by downloading various lists but the amount of work afterwards to make them user friendly is prohibitive.

How difficult would  async facility between the system address database and the database section of the site be?  Then investigations and filtering would be possible from within io.groups.

 

 

But the basic requirement is for administrator to be firm with their members, if they don’t want to identify themselves, what is it they are wanting to hide.  We only ask for first name, last name, email and town/city and country of residence.  Not exactly the Spanish inquisition.

 

Hope this helps you look at behavioural change.

 

Cheers

 

John

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: main@beta.groups.io <main@beta.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mark Fletcher
Sent: 27 October 2020 13:37
To: main@beta.groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] Blacklisting - using multiple IP addresses? #suggestion

 

On Tue, Oct 27, 2020 at 5:40 AM Curt Gowan <curt.gowan@...> wrote:


It has occurred to me that perhaps Groups.io could have a separate email server for the paid groups and one for the free groups -- to somewhat limit the damage due to blacklisting of IP addresses. There could even be another email server for use when troubleshooting groups suspected of causing blacklisting.

 

Certainly in the past, the reason we've been put on blocklists was because of premium groups direct adding bad addresses to their groups. My suspicion is that with this last wave of Yahoo Group refugees, that's what's happened again. If I had to guess, it's people direct adding email addresses that had been bouncing on Y! Groups for many years now. I don't know how to prevent that behavior.

 

Mark

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