Date   

moderated Re: Groups.io Allegedly Blacklisted #misc

Chris Jones
 

On Sun, Oct 25, 2020 at 09:28 PM, I wrote:
on the plus side my own service provider is passing mails through normally, at least for now.
And they have stopped again. :( This was first drawn to my attention by a moderator on a different group who got the same error message as yesterday at 0843 UK time; I had a message for moderation through at 0900 but the post moderation release was bounced at 0949.

Grrr

Chris


moderated Problems replying to digest messages? #misc

 

I'm not sure whether or not this is a bug. I don't use the digest in any of my groups, so I am unfamiliar with the way it is supposed to work, but this seems to be a problem. A member of one of my groups complained to me about it and told me she noticed it recently and that "it didn't used to do this."

The situation is that she's trying to reply to an individual message via email within a digest, and this is what she says happens: 
"When I click on Reply to Group on the message it opens a completely blank new tab in my email program (Thunderbird) (not even send etc. fields) and I can't use it to respond. Any idea what's going on? I used to be able to respond directly from the messages or digests in Yahoo and I'm pretty sure I've done so in io also, but for a while now this is how it's behaved."

I suspected, but have not yet determined, that she may not have been logged into groups.io when she did this, or that she was logged into the wrong account. To test that, I set myself up to digest mode in my test group and sent 12 messages to generate a digest. I received the digest in my email (gmail under safari, not the safari mail program) and tried to reply to a message in it while being logged into a groups.io account that's not a member of that group. The message just went into a black hole. It does not appear anywhere except in the gmail sent file.

I then logged out and logged into the account that is a member of the group, and tried the same thing, and the message went through.

So to reply via email to a digest message, do you have to be logged into groups.io in that same browser in order for the message to post, and otherwise the message just disappears? This seems wrong. And what's going on with her Thunderbird email, which seems to behave in an even weird way? As I said, I still need to check to see whether she was logged into groups.io (and the "correct" account), but either way, there seems to be a problem, or problems, here.

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Groups.io Allegedly Blacklisted #misc

Chris Jones
 

On Sun, Oct 25, 2020 at 07:41 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
Are the group members showing up as bouncing, or is this invisible?
I can only readily use my own record as a detailed reference, and there were 3 recorded "bounces" this afternoon, but they didn't get me a blue flag. I can find no bounces recorded (for anyone) in my group's activity log for today either. The Owner's Manual does not explain the determination of bouncing status in any detail so looking for a clue there proved fruitless. It may be that as the error code was not the same as a "true bounce" that Groups.io interpreted the return differently.

It's all something of a Black Art... on the plus side my own service provider is passing mails through normally, at least for now.

Chris


moderated Re: Groups.io Allegedly Blacklisted #misc

Bob Bellizzi
 

Trulyl no good deed goes unpunished.
Mark, thank you for your hard and unrelenting efforts.
You deserve far more praise than you receive.
--

Bob Bellizzi


moderated Re: Groups.io Allegedly Blacklisted #misc

 

Hi All,

On Thursday evening, Spamhaus blocked our main email server for 4 hours. They did so again starting around 12:24am this morning, pacific time. When this happens, the only information I'm given is the approximate time they received a suspect message and that they had received only one message in the 24 hour period.

When this happened on Thursday night, I spent the evening trying to isolate the email address that may have triggered the listing. Given that we send upwards of 17M emails a day, this can be tricky. I came up with a set of possible email addresses. I disabled those accounts, and sent each an email message directly, asking them to verify that they wished to be on a Groups.io email group.

Clearly I did not locate the correct email address, and we were listed again. I'm going through the logs, looking for the needle, but it's challenging. I have attempted to contact Spamhaus. I hope they get back to me.

It appears most places are no longer blocking us because of this listing, although an ISP in Italy is still blocking us.

Unrelated, Charter.net has not been accepting email from our main email server since Friday. I have been trying to contact them.

I'll update when I know more.

Thanks,
Mark


moderated Re: Groups.io Allegedly Blacklisted #misc

Chris Jones
 

On Sun, Oct 25, 2020 at 05:24 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
We are not currently blocked by them, but it appears that some places cache this.
Just to let you know that BT (a UK provider) now seems to have stopped bouncing Groups.io traffic.

Fingers crossed...

Chris


moderated Re: Groups.io Allegedly Blacklisted #misc

 

Are the group members showing up as bouncing, or is this invisible?


On Sun, Oct 25, 2020 at 9:00 AM Chris Jones via groups.io <chrisjones12=btinternet.com@groups.io> wrote:
A group of which I am a member posted a message to say that messages sent by the Group were not being delivered.

Similar email delivery problems have manifested themselves on a group I Moderate, and examination of my own email delivery history shows my service provider bouncing emails from Groups.io because...

mx.lb.btinternet.com: 522 email sent from 66.175.222.12 found on industry IP blacklists (Spamhaus/Invaluement/ReturnPath) on 2020/10/25 15:20:41 GMT. To protect our customers, we use leading industry providers of blacklists to ensure only good senders can send email to us. If believe this is a mistake, please contact them directly as there is nothing our Postmaster will be able to do.

I don't know how many mail service proividers may have acted upon this erroneous blacklisting. FWIW this problem seems to have arisen recently, such as this morning UK time. Other than on the group I moderate my Groups.io activity is via the web UI so I have no means of knowing how widespread this problem might be.

Chris


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Changing subject line in Edit Poll screen is misbehaving #bug

Bruce Bowman
 

Unlike Edit Message, the Edit Poll screen allows you to change the subject line.

If you do change it and click Update Poll, the subject line of the topic is unaffected. But the change is stored somewhere, because if you click Edit Poll again, the change you made shows up, and these changes do appear in the activity log. 

It would be more straightforward (and consistent with Edit Message) if this entry field was simply disabled and you had to click on the "Topic Properties" button to update it.

Thanks for your consideration,
Bruce


moderated Re: Groups.io Allegedly Blacklisted #misc

Paul Evans W4/VP9KF
 

As you should know by now, the list of 'bad' IP addresses is fetched by e-mail server admins from Spamhaus. The rate at which this is done (under a cron process) is, within reason, as often as they like. In practice the default is often every 24 hours. How long they live in the receiving e-mail server is also set at a decay pace by the admin., so if the timing is just 'right' and addresses are injected while Spamhaus has them 'up', it could take 1-2 days for a server to clear out definitions (often using a TTL algorithm). Unless, of course, an admin manually flushes the cache, although it's normally 'all or nothing' so they must remember to fetch manually from Spamhaus for fear of getting a bunch of real trash thru until the next fetch.

In practice, it'll last as long as it takes. The only thing you can ever do is inform Spamhaus that it's really not correct and make sure it at least cannot be included on the next fetch by any given e-mail server...... It certainly used to run by IP addr., so it's most annoying when used on sources that are using Shared servers or VPSes. That often blocks out many domains!


moderated Re: Groups.io Allegedly Blacklisted #misc

Chris Jones
 

On Sun, Oct 25, 2020 at 05:24 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
I am investigating this and will report more later this afternoon.
Many thanks for your efforts on a Sunday!

Chris


moderated Re: Groups.io Allegedly Blacklisted #misc

 

Hi All,

We were blocked by Spamhaus earlier this morning for a few hours. We are not currently blocked by them, but it appears that some places cache this.

I am investigating this and will report more later this afternoon.

Thanks,
Mark


moderated Re: Groups.io Allegedly Blacklisted #misc

Bruce Bowman
 

On Sun, Oct 25, 2020 at 12:00 PM, Chris Jones wrote:
we use leading industry providers of blacklists to ensure only good senders can send email to us.
The "leading industry provider" seems to be Sorbs Spam. See https://mxtoolbox.com/SuperTool.aspx?action=blacklist%3a66.175.222.12&run=toolpage 

Regards,
Bruce


moderated Re: Groups.io Allegedly Blacklisted #misc

 

Hmm, apparently soemthing is affot, I also got it from a seanet.com address:

spamtitan.isomedia.com: 554 5.7.1 Service unavailable; Client host [66.175.222.12] blocked using public.isobl.org; see http://antispam.isomedia.com/?ip=66.175.222.12 for more info and to be unbanned

Cheers,
Christos


moderated Re: Groups.io Allegedly Blacklisted #misc

Dave Sergeant
 

Quite a few to me have bounced today as well, my mail goes via 1&1
Ionos:

mx00.1and1.co.uk: 554 kundenserver.de (mxeue010) Nemesis ESMTP Service
not available No SMTP service IP address is black listed. For
explanation visit
https://www.ionos.com/help/index.php?id=2425&ip=66.175.222.12&c=bl

Dave

On 25 Oct 2020 at 8:34, Chris Jones via groups.io wrote:

A group of which I am a member posted a message to say that messages
sent by the Group were not being delivered.

Similar email delivery problems have manifested themselves on a group I
Moderate, and examination of my own email delivery history shows my
service provider bouncing emails from Groups.io because...

*mx.lb.btinternet.com: 522 email sent from 66.175.222.12 found on
industry IP blacklists (Spamhaus/Invaluement/ReturnPath) on 2020/10/25
15:20:41 GMT. To protect our customers, we use leading industry
providers of blacklists to ensure only good senders can send email to
us. If believe this is a mistake, please contact them directly as there
is nothing our Postmaster will be able to do.*

I don't know how many mail service proividers may have acted upon this
erroneous blacklisting. FWIW this problem seems to have arisen recently,
such as this morning UK time. Other than on the group I moderate my
Groups.io activity is via the web UI so I have no means of knowing how
widespread this problem might be.

http://davesergeant.com


moderated Groups.io Allegedly Blacklisted #misc

Chris Jones
 

A group of which I am a member posted a message to say that messages sent by the Group were not being delivered.

Similar email delivery problems have manifested themselves on a group I Moderate, and examination of my own email delivery history shows my service provider bouncing emails from Groups.io because...

mx.lb.btinternet.com: 522 email sent from 66.175.222.12 found on industry IP blacklists (Spamhaus/Invaluement/ReturnPath) on 2020/10/25 15:20:41 GMT. To protect our customers, we use leading industry providers of blacklists to ensure only good senders can send email to us. If believe this is a mistake, please contact them directly as there is nothing our Postmaster will be able to do.

I don't know how many mail service proividers may have acted upon this erroneous blacklisting. FWIW this problem seems to have arisen recently, such as this morning UK time. Other than on the group I moderate my Groups.io activity is via the web UI so I have no means of knowing how widespread this problem might be.

Chris


moderated Re: Compare page error (maybe) #bug

Gilbert Coville
 

The comparison used to be on the pricing page. Here are a couple Wayback Machine snapshots that show that API access for Basic changed at some point between January and April 2020.
https://web.archive.org/web/20200110180601/https://groups.io/static/pricing
https://web.archive.org/web/20200405154828/https://groups.io/static/pricing

Gilbert

On Oct 24, 2020, at 12:09 PM, Bruce Bowman <bruce.bowman@tds.net> wrote:

The plan comparison page at https://groups.io/static/compare shows that Basic groups have access to the API.

I don't recall any announcement to this effect. What's in error, the page or my memory?

Thanks,
Bruce


moderated Re: Change message-ID when a message is edited #suggestion

Bruce Bowman
 

On Sun, Oct 25, 2020 at 10:33 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
If there’s any way to fix this without changing the ID, that would be greatly oreferable because, of course, it’s the thing that identifies the message. I wonder what other problems would pop up if the message ID changes every time it’s edited.

To be clear, the message-ID in an outgoing email is not the same as the message identifier that appears in the archive.

From Wikipedia:  "Message-IDs are required to have a specific format which is a subset of an email address and be globally unique. No two different messages must ever have the same Message-ID. If two messages have the same Message-ID, they are assumed to be the same and one version is discarded." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Message-ID 

So the question is, do you want all outgoing messages that show the edit to be discarded on the receiving end? That's what the standard is...thankfully, many do not follow it.

The proposal could have some effect on message threading, though. It could be better to treat the edited message as a "reply" to the original. I'll leave such details to the expert.

Regards,
Bruce



moderated Re: Change message-ID when a message is edited #suggestion

 

If there’s any way to fix this without changing the ID, that would be greatly oreferable because, of course, it’s the thing that identifies the message. I wonder what other problems would pop up if the message ID changes every time it’s edited.


On Oct 25, 2020, at 7:07 AM, Bruce Bowman <bruce.bowman@...> wrote:

When a message (or poll) is edited, in most cases it is desirable to relay that edit to the group. However, the message-ID field in the outgoing message is left unchanged, causing some mail providers to fail to deliver it. There may be technical reasons that I'm unaware of why this must be so, but delivery of message edits would be more reliable if the message-ID was updated.

Thanks for your consideration,
Bruce

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Change message-ID when a message is edited #suggestion

Bruce Bowman
 

When a message (or poll) is edited, in most cases it is desirable to relay that edit to the group. However, the message-ID field in the outgoing message is left unchanged, causing some mail providers to fail to deliver it. There may be technical reasons that I'm unaware of why this must be so, but delivery of message edits would be more reliable if the message-ID was updated.

Thanks for your consideration,
Bruce


moderated Re: Free to Premium Expanse #suggestion

Sandi D <sandi.asgtechie@...>
 

Diito that. Services have been dropped by more companies than I care to count. And if not dropped, I have seen them transition over into something different. All I can do is evaluate those currently in business and make decisions based on available information. My groups weren't any of those bailing from Yahoo. I came to GIO well before. I have no qualms about moving or disbanding "my" 2 mailing list groups from Google Workgroups should it no longer serve our needs.

I will agree that Mark's ear is alert to those offering input. It has been challenging for me to keep abreast of all the changes to GIO. I am not saying it's bad, but it does keep me busy reading, clarifying, implementating and informing my group members of what gets rolled out! 
--
Sandi Dickenson
ASG Volunteers Group

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