Date   

moderated Free to Premium Expanse #suggestion

billsf9c
 

Maybe a better title is;
Losing Ground to #Google.

A treasurer-CoOwner informed me that he wrote IO, suggesting an intermediate step between 1 & 20 Gigs.

He WANTS to contribute to IO, and see it continue, but feels the 1 to 20 Gig jump is excessive. I don't feel it's due to cost, although that must be attached to the issue.

It may be an accounting matter. Accepting under 20$ / month (an option over annual payment,) is probably burdensome. An increment between might be at 5 Gigs, but not allow monthly payments. Maybe no Premium add-ons would be allowed.

IO has 4 levels. That's hard to put on a bell-curve. Even a graph seems unsmooth.

But I hugely fear that despite a comparable sized and active list of 2000, actually TWO, this size, I feel 1 has and 1 is goingnto google because they cannot see that Free will contain them for 4-6 more years.

They see 15 GIGS FREE.

IO is "Good Enough."
But "Perception is Reality."

You gotta compete.
As anoast communications security guy, I watched google and email services. I watched the "memory allowed.per account," almost explode. And things related to that and google that I shant discuss.

Almost NO group will use 5 Gigs or 10.or 15 for decades. Yes, some movie.or photo group will. Block movies.over 5 megs???

There will alwys be that one guy at the all-you-can eat that's a small problem. But the all-you-can-eat is up on a billboard next door to your burger joint.

Consider, with yahoo again poised, what you will lose, permanently, if you wait a month to set an upgraded policy. From my perspective you are a mom'n pop competing with McDonalds. You'll always have us... buy wouldn't you like some of them? I cannot sway groups because members cannot WILL not take time to understand the nuance.

They see 1 and they see 15 and they see $220. And they don't understand. GIVE them 15 Gigs and they won't use them in their lifetime... except that 1 big guy. He is the cost of doing business and he's 1 guy in a hundred... a thousand. Time to go all-in. Don't have 15 G for everyone? You don't order more meat until the fridge is low.

You're Great!
But you also have to COMPETE.

Diesel is great - but it's not easy to find a pump at Joe's Diner is whatever that town was when you were lost, once, 20 years ago - so you bought a gasser. Diesel, all but locked out.because the signs don't SAY diesel available soon. I can think of all.sorts of ways to sell this an an Intro offer and leverage it.

C'mon! Google will be around, but give them a rash, eh? Chafe their dang derrier!

Don't wait a dang month...! A week is enough time to not have to shoot entirely from the hip. Time to play with the big boys... on their turf. (The sloth have a name?)

With great appreciation,
BillSF9c


moderated Re: drafts disappearing - bad #bug

 

On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 12:53 PM, Jim Fisher wrote:
Why don't you use a simple text editor such as Notepad instead of Word?
Shouldn't even have to do that. Let's just hope Mark finds a way to fix the bug.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: drafts disappearing - bad #bug

 

Why don't you use a simple text editor such as Notepad instead of Word? No
formatting problems then because there's no formatting.

Jim Fisher

On 20 Oct 2020 at 6:16, J_Catlady wrote:

I did end up having to copy/paste a word doc last night
(which results in formatting issues).


moderated Re: drafts disappearing - bad #bug

 

The real problem is the inconsistent behavior. If we leave the site entirely, the draft gets saved. And we (users) have become accustomed to that. So when we don't even leave the site and do something as simple as go to another page, and use the back button, who's going to expect that the draft disappears? Not me. Either ditch the whole draft-saving mechanism or fix it so that drafts get saved regardless of what other actions are taken, including innocently using the back button. Users should not have to know that they have to open other windows to make sure their draft is saved. Etc
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: drafts disappearing - bad #bug

 

Please, don't give Mark any ideas. All of that is cumbersome. We need this fixed. ;)
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: drafts disappearing - bad #bug

SBL webmaster
 

J_Catlady wrote:
Good to know. However, not using the back button is going to be really
cumbersome. Imagine you're writing a long, complex reply, and you have
to go out of your draft several times to look something up on the site.
There should never be a need to leave the draft page to look something up.
All of the major browsers support multiple tabs, so if you need to look
something up, you can either:

- Open a new blank tab; on most browsers, this is Ctrl-T on the keyboard,
or click on the "+" next to the last open tab at the top of the window.

- Open a link on the current page in a new tab; on most browsers, this is
right-click on the link and type "t", or select "Open link in new tab"
in the pop-up menu.

-- Dave Tweed
(long-time lurker)


moderated Re: drafts disappearing - bad #bug

 

On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 10:12 AM, Duane wrote:
I'm using FF, so I think this may be the biggy.  I've never seen the problem, but always go through the Drafts option on the left menu to get to one
Good to know. However, not using the back button is going to be really cumbersome. Imagine you're writing a long, complex reply, and you have to go out of your draft several times to look something up on the site. It is going to be very unintuitive to have to remember to repeatedly go to the Drafts tab instead of back to where you were. So I hope Mark comes up with one of his whiz-bang solutions soon. :)
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: drafts disappearing - bad #bug

Duane
 

On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 11:43 AM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
Don't use the back button to return to a draft reply.
I'm using FF, so I think this may be the biggy.  I've never seen the problem, but always go through the Drafts option on the left menu to get to one.

Thanks,
Duane


moderated Re: drafts disappearing - bad #bug

 

Thanks, Mark, for nailing this down. That’s exactly what happens. I do use Firefox.

 I’ll try to remember to keep two separate windows open on groups.io until you come up with a fix. Not using the back arrow would be really hard. 


On Oct 20, 2020, at 9:43 AM, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:


Hi All,

I've spent a bunch of time researching this and trying to reproduce it. Here is what I believe is the bug:

- Using Firefox (it's not reproducible in Chrome or Safari), start a reply to a message.
- Navigate to another page or site.
- Go to the drafts page and click the draft to continue editing it.
- Make a change in the draft.
- Navigate to another page or site.
- Hit the back button to return to the draft.
- See that your change is no longer there.

I don't know if or when I'll be able to figure out how to fix it. In the meantime, you have a couple options: 

- Don't use Firefox
- Don't use the back button to return to a draft reply.

Thanks,
Mark


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: drafts disappearing - bad #bug

 

Hi All,

I've spent a bunch of time researching this and trying to reproduce it. Here is what I believe is the bug:

- Using Firefox (it's not reproducible in Chrome or Safari), start a reply to a message.
- Navigate to another page or site.
- Go to the drafts page and click the draft to continue editing it.
- Make a change in the draft.
- Navigate to another page or site.
- Hit the back button to return to the draft.
- See that your change is no longer there.

I don't know if or when I'll be able to figure out how to fix it. In the meantime, you have a couple options: 

- Don't use Firefox
- Don't use the back button to return to a draft reply.

Thanks,
Mark


moderated Re: Rewrite "From" address to match group address in certain cases when user is running Windows 10 and aol or verizon email #suggestion

 

Once I even noticed it was going on, I used to write them back and ask them how they were replying  privately within a thread, because we have PM’s disabled in my group and the replies were clearly within the thread. It made no sense that they could even do it. But it turned out they had no clue they were doing it and thought they were posting to the group. The problem gets exponentially worse when people start themselves replying tk the private reply, not even knowing it’s private. Threads upon threads of private conversations can be generated without anybody even being aware, including the psrticipants themselves.

This morning, the new member switched back to using her Mac and her messages are posting again.


On Oct 20, 2020, at 9:16 AM, Leeni <leeniluvsgroups2@...> wrote:


I will check the activity now to see what email addresses they are using.
 
When I got an email to the owner, I would write the member and tell them to resend it. Then the same thing would happen again. 
 
I will report back my findings. 
 
 
 
 
-------Original Message-------
 
From: J_Catlady
Date: 10/20/2020 11:05:52 AM
Subject: Re: [beta] Rewrite "From" address to match group address in certain cases when user is running Windows 10 and aol or verizon email #suggestion
 
On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 08:51 AM, Leeni wrote:
I was wondering why I have been getting a lot of messages to me as owner
It took me quite a long time to narrow this down. I ran a bunch of "reply" experiments in my group, and members were willing to be the guinea pigs. Eventually I narrowed it down to verizon or aol users on a PC. Some people in this thread (I think Bruce) helped by pointing out the problem with the Windows 10 email program regarding addresses. If you check, I think you'll find this is happening with your group members who are using verizon or aol email on PCs. They are probably totally unaware their messages aren't posting.

I would bet money this is happening in many, MANY groups all over the place and neither the owners nor the members are even aware of it. You can reply and everything looks normal. The subject of the thread looks normal, as if everything is going to and from the group. You have to look closely at the email address and/or fail to find the message(s) on the site to even know there's a problem.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

 

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Rewrite "From" address to match group address in certain cases when user is running Windows 10 and aol or verizon email #suggestion

Leeni
 

I will check the activity now to see what email addresses they are using.
 
When I got an email to the owner, I would write the member and tell them to resend it. Then the same thing would happen again. 
 
I will report back my findings. 
 
 
 
 

-------Original Message-------
 
From: J_Catlady
Date: 10/20/2020 11:05:52 AM
Subject: Re: [beta] Rewrite "From" address to match group address in certain cases when user is running Windows 10 and aol or verizon email #suggestion
 
On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 08:51 AM, Leeni wrote:
I was wondering why I have been getting a lot of messages to me as owner
It took me quite a long time to narrow this down. I ran a bunch of "reply" experiments in my group, and members were willing to be the guinea pigs. Eventually I narrowed it down to verizon or aol users on a PC. Some people in this thread (I think Bruce) helped by pointing out the problem with the Windows 10 email program regarding addresses. If you check, I think you'll find this is happening with your group members who are using verizon or aol email on PCs. They are probably totally unaware their messages aren't posting.

I would bet money this is happening in many, MANY groups all over the place and neither the owners nor the members are even aware of it. You can reply and everything looks normal. The subject of the thread looks normal, as if everything is going to and from the group. You have to look closely at the email address and/or fail to find the message(s) on the site to even know there's a problem.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

 


moderated Re: Rewrite "From" address to match group address in certain cases when user is running Windows 10 and aol or verizon email #suggestion

 

On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 08:51 AM, Leeni wrote:
I was wondering why I have been getting a lot of messages to me as owner
It took me quite a long time to narrow this down. I ran a bunch of "reply" experiments in my group, and members were willing to be the guinea pigs. Eventually I narrowed it down to verizon or aol users on a PC. Some people in this thread (I think Bruce) helped by pointing out the problem with the Windows 10 email program regarding addresses. If you check, I think you'll find this is happening with your group members who are using verizon or aol email on PCs. They are probably totally unaware their messages aren't posting.

I would bet money this is happening in many, MANY groups all over the place and neither the owners nor the members are even aware of it. You can reply and everything looks normal. The subject of the thread looks normal, as if everything is going to and from the group. You have to look closely at the email address and/or fail to find the message(s) on the site to even know there's a problem.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Rewrite "From" address to match group address in certain cases when user is running Windows 10 and aol or verizon email #suggestion

Leeni
 

I was wondering why I have been getting a lot of messages to me as owner and not being sent to the group. That isn't good.  
 
 
 
 

-------Original Message-------
 
From: J_Catlady
Date: 10/20/2020 10:27:36 AM
Subject: Re: [beta] Rewrite "From" address to match group address in certain cases when user is running Windows 10 and aol or verizon email #suggestion
 
At the risk of not picking my battles: I have just had to announce to my group for about the fifth time that replies from users with verizon or aol email on a PC don't post to the group. There's another new member with this configuration and her replies were coming privately to me, again completely unknown to the member (and, at first, me). I now have a group sticky, an alert in the welcome message, and an alert in the group guidelines about this, complete with a sad statement that I've been trying to get groups.io to create a workaround but it's unlikely in the near future yada yada. But people don't read or get it. If there could be a workaround to this soon that would be extremely helpful.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

 


moderated Re: Rewrite "From" address to match group address in certain cases when user is running Windows 10 and aol or verizon email #suggestion

 

At the risk of not picking my battles: I have just had to announce to my group for about the fifth time that replies from users with verizon or aol email on a PC don't post to the group. There's another new member with this configuration and her replies were coming privately to me, again completely unknown to the member (and, at first, me). I now have a group sticky, an alert in the welcome message, and an alert in the group guidelines about this, complete with a sad statement that I've been trying to get groups.io to create a workaround but it's unlikely in the near future yada yada. But people don't read or get it. If there could be a workaround to this soon that would be extremely helpful.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: drafts disappearing - bad #bug

 

The problem with using word for groups.io is the formatting is incompatible.


On Oct 20, 2020, at 8:04 AM, Marv Waschke <marv@...> wrote:

It appears to me that there is either a bug, or at least difficult to predict behavior, lurking here somewhere. However, I have to say that I gave up on online drafts in all applications, not just gio, long ago in self-defense. Defects and unpredictable behavior in this area are everywhere. As a habit, I draft any writing of any length locally, usually in Word. Life is too short and humans too frail for me to expect perfect code. Best, Marv

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: drafts disappearing - bad #bug

Marv Waschke
 

It appears to me that there is either a bug, or at least difficult to predict behavior, lurking here somewhere. However, I have to say that I gave up on online drafts in all applications, not just gio, long ago in self-defense. Defects and unpredictable behavior in this area are everywhere. As a habit, I draft any writing of any length locally, usually in Word. Life is too short and humans too frail for me to expect perfect code. Best, Marv


moderated Re: drafts disappearing - bad #bug

 

On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 07:12 AM, Duane wrote:
I'm not seeing that.  Mine is saving each draft when I leave the composition page.
Not sure I understand the comment..?? You're not seeing that because you're not experiencing the bug.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: drafts disappearing - bad #bug

Duane
 

On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 08:52 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
the fact that it saves the first drsftvand only the first draft
I'm not seeing that.  Mine is saving each draft when I leave the composition page.

Duane


moderated Re: Actions button on member list becomes unavailable and count of selected members is negative #bug

Duane
 

On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 08:21 AM, Andy Wedge wrote:
Unchecking the previously selected members causes the count to go negative. Normal service can be resumed
I can verify that this happens on Firefox 81.0.2 and 82.0, both 64bit on Win7.  A somewhat easier 'resume' is to use the Uncheck All button to get things back in sync until the underlying problem is corrected.

Duane

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