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moderated Re: Turn off Credit Card tab #suggestion

Glenn Glazer
 

On 9/3/2020 09:39, Duane wrote:
On Thu, Sep 3, 2020 at 11:14 AM, Chuck Palmer wrote:
I would think that somewhere in the back-end of groups.io is my profile that says what groups I am a member of, what my roles are in those groups, and which groups have donations turned on.
Let's see...  Let's say 100,000 groups, 5,000,000 accounts, at least 3 possible roles per account.  True, a computer can figure all that out, but it takes computing cycles to do it.  It would have to be an almost instantaneous status in order to be useful, like when someone starts a group and wants to upgrade immediately.  Seems like a terrible waste of resources to me, though I'm sure it could be done.  BTW, I doubt that many of my members (~7,000 total) even know the Billing item exists in their account and no one has ever asked about it.

So, I'm a software engineer for Second Life. We have over 2.6 million resident groups in our system and we provide realtime group information, include roles for a member.

The simple db schema for such a thing is to have a user table which has information about users, including a UUID for the user; a groups table that has information about groups including a group UUID and a roles table that has role information including a role UUID. Then, there is a simple mapping table that has rows consisting of tuples (userid,groupid,roleid) that is updated whenever someone joins, leaves or changes roles in the group. Then, retrieving the roles and groups for a user is a simple SELECT statement against the mapping table and decoding the group and role id's back to human readable strings by a secondary lookup. No "waste of resources" and yes, it is available instantaneously. A query of this kind, even including the subqueries for the strings returns in fractions of a second - yes cycles are used, but not an appreciable amount. This is, after all, what databases are built to do.

Best,

Glenn

--
PG&E Delenda Est

Virus-free. www.avast.com


moderated Re: List-Post header option for individual groups #suggestion

 

On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 6:12 PM Drew <pubx1@...> wrote:

Since there is no Reply-To-Sender message footer link in plaintext
formatted groups like ours we must either copy & paste the email address
between headers in the mail reader, or click the View/Reply Online
footer link, which then requires several more button clicks (REPLY,
PRIVATE, QUOTE).

This necessitates an explanation from moderators every time they ask a
subscriber to "take it off-list"; and posting of reminders to the group
on the steps required for replying to sender only, whether online or by
copy/pasting headers.


Just refreshed my memory by looking back at the old topics addressing this. I have a suggestion. You can use the new `Reply To Followers Only` topic setting to move discussions `off-list` (that is, hidden from the rest of the group). No need for your members to change their behavior, no need for you to post reminders on the list. If you see this happening, you can just change the reply-to setting of the topic to this new setting and any further replies only go to the topic participants and not the entire group. You could also set up a hashtag to automatically set a topic to that setting.


Mark


moderated Re: Turn off Credit Card tab #suggestion

Duane
 

On Thu, Sep 3, 2020 at 11:14 AM, Chuck Palmer wrote:
I would think that somewhere in the back-end of groups.io is my profile that says what groups I am a member of, what my roles are in those groups, and which groups have donations turned on.
Let's see...  Let's say 100,000 groups, 5,000,000 accounts, at least 3 possible roles per account.  True, a computer can figure all that out, but it takes computing cycles to do it.  It would have to be an almost instantaneous status in order to be useful, like when someone starts a group and wants to upgrade immediately.  Seems like a terrible waste of resources to me, though I'm sure it could be done.  BTW, I doubt that many of my members (~7,000 total) even know the Billing item exists in their account and no one has ever asked about it.

For those groups that I am an owner or that have donations turned on, it makes sense for me to see the Billing menu item and it should be accessible.
There's at least one additional case to consider.  A moderator can have billing privileges to pay for a group without owning it.

Duane


moderated Re: Turn off Credit Card tab #suggestion

 

On Thu, Sep 3, 2020 at 09:23 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
I would think that somewhere in the back-end of groups.io is my profile that says what groups I am a member of, what my roles are in those groups, and which groups have donations turned on.
This is not a simple piece of data in the account. The monitoring required to maintain it would be nontrivial. Any time a group changed the Donations toggle, all the group members would have to be processed. And even if you argue that it's no big deal, I still don't like the end result on the UI - my billing info suddenly disappears like the Cheshire cat, and maybe appears again or I am made to enter it again, possibly over and over again.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Turn off Credit Card tab #suggestion

 

On Thu, Sep 3, 2020 at 09:14 AM, Chuck Palmer wrote:
I would think that somewhere in the back-end of groups.io is my profile that says what groups I am a member of, what my roles are in those groups, and which groups have donations turned on.

For those groups that I am an owner or that have donations turned on, it makes sense for me to see the Billing menu item and it should be accessible.

Likewise, if I am not owner of any group and none of groups that I am a member of have donations turned on, that Billing menu item should not be accessible.
I still disagree with the basic premise. Suppose I am the owner of a premium group and have entered my billing info. Should that simply disappear when I downgrade or delete the group? I'm not talking about whether the page to enter it should disappear or be grayed out. I'm talking about the information itself. Suppose the next day I join a group that happens to have Donations turned on. Should my billing info then miraculously (courtesy of the groups.io system) be restored? Or should I be made to enter it again? Etc. I think any of those would be ridiculous. Once I enter billing info, I would expect it to stay there unless I personally delete it. If I downgrade or delete my premium group, and my billing info disappears, and then I create a different premium group an hous later, then what are you proposing should happen?

The simplest solution for naive users is to put some explanation on the page itself. This is not rocket science. If somebody has a problem, you can hold their hand. There are bigger things to worry about.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Turn off Credit Card tab #suggestion

Chuck Palmer
 

On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 08:04 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
The credit card should be on if any one or more of the groups the user is in has Donations on.
 
Exactly! I'm thinking that I should have been more explicit/precise in my original suggestion.  I would think that somewhere in the back-end of groups.io is my profile that says what groups I am a member of, what my roles are in those groups, and which groups have donations turned on.

For those groups that I am an owner or that have donations turned on, it makes sense for me to see the Billing menu item and it should be accessible.

Likewise, if I am not owner of any group and none of groups that I am a member of have donations turned on, that Billing menu item should not be accessible.

The member base for one of my groups is about retirees who are, in most cases, not that computer literate.  I have the club's website setup to take their yearly membership dues via PayPal.  But I'm now getting questions from members asking "is this where I put my credit card info now?", etc.  It's an Apple Users Group club with about 1,000 members so we run the gamut -- from very knowledgeable members to those just learning how to use their new smart iPads/iPhones.  A bit of a challenge...-;)


moderated Re: Turn off Credit Card tab #suggestion

 

And that's not even mentioning that any member of your group can be the owner of some other group and needs to able to pay for it.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: List-Post header option for individual groups #suggestion

Drew
 

Thanks, Mark.

Since there is no Reply-To-Sender message footer link in plaintext formatted groups like ours we must either copy & paste the email address between headers in the mail reader, or click the View/Reply Online footer link, which then requires several more button clicks (REPLY, PRIVATE, QUOTE).

This necessitates an explanation from moderators every time they ask a subscriber to "take it off-list"; and posting of reminders to the group on the steps required for replying to sender only, whether online or by copy/pasting headers.

With the List-Post header in effect (referring to the Thunderbird mail reader; I assume others are similar...) we will have one-click buttons for replying to either the group or to sender only, with message text being fully quoted in the reply. (I notice that message text is not quoted in replies via the footer link in html formatted groups and must be copy & pasted by hand.)

The List-Post behavior is familiar to our members, many of whom subscribe to GNU Mailman (or other popular software) mailing list groups.

Drew

On 09/02/20 15:33, Mark Fletcher wrote:
On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 9:13 AM Drew <pubx1@af2z.net <mailto:pubx1@af2z.net>> wrote:
The various Reply To Sender contortions continues to be an
irritating hassle for our group. Would it be possible to implement
the List-Post email header as an option for those groups that want
it? It was formerly removed from system wide use at Groups.io but it
would be a welcomed optional feature for some groups.
Can you give me some more information as to why the Reply To Sender stuff is a problem for your group? And what would the List-Post header get you?
Thanks,
Mark


moderated Re: Turn off Credit Card tab #suggestion

 

On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 04:59 PM, Chuck Palmer wrote:
please explain to me why my group's members should be able to put their credit card information in?
Sure, no problem. It's because they might be in other groups that do have Donations turned on.

You're still talking as if you think users are in only one group: yours. Whereas they may be (and often are) in several or many groups, all of which can toggle their Donations on and off.

"Donations on" or "Donations off" is not an account/user variable(*). "Credit card" is a user variable. They don't match 1-1. The credit card should be on if any one or more of the groups the user is in has Donations on.
 
(*) except indirectly, as a function of ALL the groups the user is in
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Turn off Credit Card tab #suggestion

Chuck Palmer
 

Still feels like a basic disconnect here. Donations on or off is only an indirect function of the account. You’d have to continually check all the groups the user is in.
Only group owners have the ability to turn on/off the Donations functionality for their groups.  If I, as a group owner, don't want Donations enabled for my group and therefore don't enable the Stripe connection, please explain to me why my group's members should be able to put their credit card information in?

In addition to having some of my members asking me what it's for, I wonder from a privacy perspective where the info is physically kept?

Kind Regards,
-chuck


moderated Re: List-Post header option for individual groups #suggestion

 

On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 9:13 AM Drew <pubx1@...> wrote:

The various Reply To Sender contortions continues to be an irritating hassle for our group. Would it be possible to implement the List-Post email header as an option for those groups that want it? It was formerly removed from system wide use at Groups.io but it would be a welcomed optional feature for some groups.

Can you give me some more information as to why the Reply To Sender stuff is a problem for your group? And what would the List-Post header get you?

Thanks,
Mark 


moderated message about deleted topic due to hashtag time-out refers to "thread" not "topic" #bug #fixed

 

Missed another one! Need to change "Thread 'bla bla bla' was deleted because of an expired hashtag" to "Topic bla bla bla was deleted"

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Profile photo #bug

Bruce Bowman
 

On Tue, Mar 17, 2020 at 10:32 AM, Duane wrote:
Someone on GMF reported that they couldn't delete their photo in the profile for a group. 
Mark -- Here's a reminder that this bug still remains to be fixed.

Got another report on it in GMF this morning.

Regards,
Bruce


moderated List-Post header option for individual groups #suggestion

Drew
 

The various Reply To Sender contortions continues to be an irritating hassle for our group. Would it be possible to implement the List-Post email header as an option for those groups that want it? It was formerly removed from system wide use at Groups.io but it would be a welcomed optional feature for some groups.

Drew


moderated Re: Turn off Credit Card tab #suggestion

 

Still feels like a basic disconnect here. Donations on or off is only an indirect function of the account. You’d have to continually check all the groups the user is in.


On Sep 2, 2020, at 7:29 AM, Duane <txpigeon@...> wrote:

On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 05:26 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
But Mark, you say, things disappear on the group sidebar if they are not enabled. You're right! Perhaps I should change that so that instead of them disappearing, they should be disabled. Anyone object to that?
I've noticed that when grayed out, it can be difficult to distinguish the text color from 'normal'.  If it's not too much trouble, maybe use the ban icon in front of (or behind?) anything not available instead of only when hovering over it, in addition to the graying.

Thanks,
Duane

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Turn off Credit Card tab #suggestion

Duane
 

On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 05:26 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
But Mark, you say, things disappear on the group sidebar if they are not enabled. You're right! Perhaps I should change that so that instead of them disappearing, they should be disabled. Anyone object to that?
I've noticed that when grayed out, it can be difficult to distinguish the text color from 'normal'.  If it's not too much trouble, maybe use the ban icon in front of (or behind?) anything not available instead of only when hovering over it, in addition to the graying.

Thanks,
Duane


moderated Re: Turn off Credit Card tab #suggestion

Radioman ZeroZero <radioman@...>
 

If you don't need them then you don't need to know where they are.  It's just clutter for most users.
--
Thanks Steve


moderated Re: Event RSVP Activity Log #done #suggestion

 

On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 11:06 AM Charlie Behnken <charles.behnken@...> wrote:


First problem was people getting RSVPs rejected due to the Event being locked.  When I looked at the Event (a day later) it was not locked, but Locking an Event is not logged in the Activity log, so I can not tell if it was actually locked and unlocked, or who locked it.

We now log when someone locks/unlocks/cancels an event.
 
Second was the organizer sent out an email to the Attendees and no one got it. This 'message' is also not logged in the Activity Log as a message so once again I can not tell if it was actually submitted or not.

We now log when someone sends a message to event responders.
 
P.S. there is a bug in RSVP - when I click on View Responses it tells me how many people are attending etc.  It also says I am attending on every event even though I have not responded. If I respond Will Not Attend it is correct.
_
This has been fixed.

Thanks,
Mark 


moderated Re: Turn off Credit Card tab #suggestion

 

On Tue, Sep 1, 2020 at 07:05 AM, Duane wrote:
But it doesn't hurt anything either.  It could be a nightmare, IMO, to keep track of whether any group a person belongs to has Donations enabled at any given time since they can be turned on and off as needed. 
Exactly. Seems like someone here gets it.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Groups.io page footer not anchored on Firefox mobile #bug

Andy Wedge
 

Hi Mark,

I use Firefox on my mobile phone and I've noticed that the 'Messages  New Topic  More' page footer is no longer anchored to the bottom of the screen when I'm trying to approve messages. The initial display looks fine:




but when I tap the screen to approve a message the page footer moves up, covers the buttons and the approve action is not done:



It seems fine on Chrome and the default Samsung browser.

Regards
Andy

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