Date   

moderated Re: Make Sticky Topic show at top of Messages view #suggestion

 

It’s not my group and I have no idea why it’s done that way. My point is that this is just one legitimate use of stickies *as topics*, which is, after all, how the feature was implemented and has stood for years, and there no doubt other legitimate uses of *sticky topics* that don’t necessarily conform to an abra cadabra transformation to *sticky messages.” Sticky messages and sticky topics are different beasts. It’s not my job to defend this or any other group owner who has learned to use sticky topics (which is the feature - not sticky messages), or to figure out why they use the sticky topic (not sticky message) feature the way they do. I’m simply pointing out that there are use cases that the majority here in this circumscribed conversation may not be thinking about. 

If a sticky message feature is going to be implemented, it should probably be distinct from sticky topics. E.g., an individual message could be chosen as a sticky. It would not be restricted to first messages of topics. To turn every first message of a sticky topic into a sticky message is not what I would think of as a sticky message feature. I’d want to be able to pick out individual important messages. 


On Aug 25, 2020, at 8:46 PM, Duane <txpigeon@...> wrote:

On Tue, Aug 25, 2020 at 07:00 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
about 20 stickies, all important and warranted
Is there some reason they can't be combined into fewer?  Seems like if there's that much stuff they want to bring to members attention, a monthly reminder (or a calendar event more often) containing all of them would be better.

Duane

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Direct add message problem #bug ? #bug

Su
 

I think this is a bug.

When you direct-add a new member to a main group and then use the checkboxes to add the person to a subgroup at the same time, the member receives the Welcome notice for the subgroup, not the Direct Add notice for it.

If I add the member to the main group, and then separately to the subgroup, then the new member receives both the Welcome notice and the Direct Add notice for the subgroup. 

It seems to me that the emails sent should be the same in either case.

Thanks,
Su


moderated Re: Make Sticky Topic show at top of Messages view #suggestion

Duane
 

On Tue, Aug 25, 2020 at 07:00 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
about 20 stickies, all important and warranted
Is there some reason they can't be combined into fewer?  Seems like if there's that much stuff they want to bring to members attention, a monthly reminder (or a calendar event more often) containing all of them would be better.

Duane


moderated Re: Schedule regular EXPORTs? #suggestion

Duane
 

On Tue, Aug 25, 2020 at 06:01 PM, Everett Kaser wrote:
Basically, it would work the way it does not (email notice that the EXPORT is available for the next 24 hours), then it would be up to the user to make sure it got downloaded, either via an automatic processing of the email, or by manually starting the download.
That's what you do now.  It sounds like all you want/need is a reminder to do it.  You could use the calendar for that.  Once you request an export, it's all collected automatically, usually within about 10 minutes.  It seems to me that if you have to request the export, you'd be more likely to follow through right away.  If it were scheduled, you'd run the risk of not noticing, then have to request another anyway.

Duane


moderated Re: Make Sticky Topic show at top of Messages view #suggestion

 

ps I know of at least one group (not mine) that has about 20 stickies, all important and warranted, and will probably not be happy with the change. Important to remember that not all users are in beta and some might be pretty shocked by the change if it’s forced on them and not made optional.


On Aug 25, 2020, at 4:41 PM, J_Catlady via groups.io <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

“Judicious” to you is “stingy” to others and vice versa. As users we got used to being able to thumb through the Messages view without any obstacles. And there’s nothing wrong with that. We adjust, as you say, to the feature. Sort of like bees adapting to flowers. Now you’re going to change the flower. It doesn’t mean the bee’s behavior in respond to the original flower was in any way “injudicious.”

I can live with this change provided that only the first message in any sticky topic is affected. That doesn’t mean I like it, and I would still prefer that it be an option. I like my Messages view straight-up, no twist.


On Aug 25, 2020, at 3:43 PM, Marv Waschke <marv@...> wrote:

I'm also in favor of consistency. I observe that when a change like this is made, user behavior changes also: moderators will get better at trimming top-heavy clusters of stickies and become more judicious about declaring a message sticky. Note to Mark: if you're not thinking about a way to put a hash table on the sticky flag, you might consider that a hash can work performance wonders pulling sparse rows from a large table.
Best, Marv

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Make Sticky Topic show at top of Messages view #suggestion

 

“Judicious” to you is “stingy” to others and vice versa. As users we got used to being able to thumb through the Messages view without any obstacles. And there’s nothing wrong with that. We adjust, as you say, to the feature. Sort of like bees adapting to flowers. Now you’re going to change the flower. It doesn’t mean the bee’s behavior in respond to the original flower was in any way “injudicious.”

I can live with this change provided that only the first message in any sticky topic is affected. That doesn’t mean I like it, and I would still prefer that it be an option. I like my Messages view straight-up, no twist.


On Aug 25, 2020, at 3:43 PM, Marv Waschke <marv@...> wrote:

I'm also in favor of consistency. I observe that when a change like this is made, user behavior changes also: moderators will get better at trimming top-heavy clusters of stickies and become more judicious about declaring a message sticky. Note to Mark: if you're not thinking about a way to put a hash table on the sticky flag, you might consider that a hash can work performance wonders pulling sparse rows from a large table.
Best, Marv

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Changes to new basic groups #update

 

On Tue, Aug 25, 2020 at 10:35 AM Dave Sergeant <dave@...> wrote:
Does 'attachment as links' work as it does at the moment then (in new
basic groups)?

Yes it does.

Cheers,
Mark 


moderated Schedule regular EXPORTs? #suggestion

 

One of my groups would like to back up their group regularly to a non-Groups.io site. Currently, it seems, we'd have to manually request an EXPORT every week or month. How about adding the ability to schedule regular EXPORT requests (once a week, I would think, would be the minimum granularity that would be needed, and once a month would probably be acceptable). Basically, it would work the way it does not (email notice that the EXPORT is available for the next 24 hours), then it would be up to the user to make sure it got downloaded, either via an automatic processing of the email, or by manually starting the download.

Any chance?


moderated Re: Make Sticky Topic show at top of Messages view #suggestion

Marv Waschke
 

I'm also in favor of consistency. I observe that when a change like this is made, user behavior changes also: moderators will get better at trimming top-heavy clusters of stickies and become more judicious about declaring a message sticky. Note to Mark: if you're not thinking about a way to put a hash table on the sticky flag, you might consider that a hash can work performance wonders pulling sparse rows from a large table.
Best, Marv


moderated Re: Make Sticky Topic show at top of Messages view #suggestion

 

Walking that back: I think that would be ok. 😊


On Aug 25, 2020, at 2:32 PM, J_Catlady via groups.io <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

I’m not sure I understand how the message order would look in that case. You’d have message #1 of a sticky topic separated from Message #s 2-n of that tophc by Message #1.of the second sticky topic, Message #1 of the third sticky topic, etc? That almost seems worse.


On Aug 25, 2020, at 1:49 PM, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:


On Tue, Aug 25, 2020 at 11:51 AM J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:
Good idea about making it an option! I’m not sure people realize the ramifications of this change. If a group has, say, 3-5 sticky topics (and many groups have more), with 3-5 messages per topic (again, many have more), the messages list will be top-heavy with about a dozen, and possibly even dozens, of messages to have to manually get through before finally reaching current messages.

If/when I implement this, I would only display the first message in a sticky topic.

Cheers,
Mark 

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Make Sticky Topic show at top of Messages view #suggestion

 

I’m not sure I understand how the message order would look in that case. You’d have message #1 of a sticky topic separated from Message #s 2-n of that tophc by Message #1.of the second sticky topic, Message #1 of the third sticky topic, etc? That almost seems worse.


On Aug 25, 2020, at 1:49 PM, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:


On Tue, Aug 25, 2020 at 11:51 AM J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:
Good idea about making it an option! I’m not sure people realize the ramifications of this change. If a group has, say, 3-5 sticky topics (and many groups have more), with 3-5 messages per topic (again, many have more), the messages list will be top-heavy with about a dozen, and possibly even dozens, of messages to have to manually get through before finally reaching current messages.

If/when I implement this, I would only display the first message in a sticky topic.

Cheers,
Mark 

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Make Sticky Topic show at top of Messages view #suggestion

 

On Tue, Aug 25, 2020 at 11:51 AM J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:
Good idea about making it an option! I’m not sure people realize the ramifications of this change. If a group has, say, 3-5 sticky topics (and many groups have more), with 3-5 messages per topic (again, many have more), the messages list will be top-heavy with about a dozen, and possibly even dozens, of messages to have to manually get through before finally reaching current messages.

If/when I implement this, I would only display the first message in a sticky topic.

Cheers,
Mark 


moderated Re: show descriptions in databaes overview #suggestion

 

O.k.,
I´ll try this. Thanks
Victoria


moderated Re: Make Sticky Topic show at top of Messages view #suggestion

 

Duane is exactly.right. The only way to avoid what would be a fiasco for some groups is to avoid using stickies altogether. And I like stickies. :-) I not want to be forced into not using them by this change.


On Aug 25, 2020, at 11:51 AM, Duane <txpigeon@...> wrote:

On Tue, Aug 25, 2020 at 12:34 PM, Ro wrote:
I prefer NOT to have the messages sticky.
If the owner/mod doesn't make any stickies, there wouldn't be any on any view.

Duane

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: show descriptions in databaes overview #suggestion

Duane
 

On Tue, Aug 25, 2020 at 12:55 PM, Victoria wrote:
yes, but it only shows after opening a database but not in the overview of the databases.
I'm assuming the view you mean is https://groups.io/g/GroupName/database.  If so, then it does IF you fill in the Short Description.  It doesn't use any of the (long) Description field.  They are totally separate.

Duane


moderated Re: Make Sticky Topic show at top of Messages view #suggestion

Duane
 

On Tue, Aug 25, 2020 at 12:34 PM, Ro wrote:
I prefer NOT to have the messages sticky.
If the owner/mod doesn't make any stickies, there wouldn't be any on any view.

Duane


moderated Re: Make Sticky Topic show at top of Messages view #suggestion

 

Good idea about making it an option! I’m not sure people realize the ramifications of this change. If a group has, say, 3-5 sticky topics (and many groups have more), with 3-5 messages per topic (again, many have more), the messages list will be top-heavy with about a dozen, and possibly even dozens, of messages to have to manually get through before finally reaching current messages. I myself will feel it’s best stop using stickies in my group if this comes to pass, failing cutting down each sticky topic to 1-2 messages, which is impractical for our group and the way we use stickies (namely, for important conversations, some of them extended -  not just individual messages).

The usefulness or, conversely, inconvenience of the revised feature will depend in large part on how the individuak groups have grown to use stickies currently - understanding, and coming to rely on, the fact that the messages list has not so far been burdened with this display order. And that’s why making the change an option would be a good idea. 

Either way I hope this will be very well thought out before a final implementation decision is made.

 Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 25, 2020, at 10:34 AM, Ro <recarlton@...> wrote:

Perhaps this can be made a user option. I prefer NOT to have the messages sticky.  But for those that do. It ca be an option in settings

Ro

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: show descriptions in databaes overview #suggestion

 

On Tue, Aug 25, 2020 at 05:18 PM, Duane wrote:
If you put something in the Short Description when creating/editing the database, that will show on the listing of available databases.
Duane,
yes, but it only shows after opening a database but not in the overview of the databases. Compare it to files: When you create a folder, you can add a description to each folder, and this description shows in the overview page of the folders. When creating a database adding a description this description does not show in the overview but it should in my opinion.
Victoria


moderated Re: Changes to new basic groups #update

Dave Sergeant
 

Does 'attachment as links' work as it does at the moment then (in new
basic groups)?

Dave

On 25 Aug 2020 at 9:57, Mark Fletcher wrote:

Because the
Photos section is disabled, there is no 'Emailed Photos' album where you
can view photo attachments.

http://davesergeant.com


moderated Re: Make Sticky Topic show at top of Messages view #suggestion

Ro
 

Perhaps this can be made a user option. I prefer NOT to have the messages sticky.  But for those that do. It ca be an option in settings

Ro