Date   

moderated RE : [beta] Changes to new basic groups #update

JediPirx
 

Just a thought, but, what about creating a "Free" plan that
is mailing list and possibly Wiki only, and keeping "Basic"
as is but adding a nominal monthly charge ($5/month ?). This
avoids legacy plan tracking.

Those on the Basic plan who only need mailing list can
downgrade to Free plan if they wish. The Wiki feature would
be used to document rules-of-engagement, and links to other
sites for files/photos/etc.

Is there a plan that can be created for Non-Profits ? Are
there certain features that Non-Profits typically use ?

As an aside, does Groups.io track feature usage for each plan ?
This would help with developing plans in the future.

There are other pricing models, such as "Utility Computing" and
"A La Carte" but that is not the scope here.

Stan/jp

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Subject : [beta] Changes to new basic groups #updates
Date : Mon, 10 Aug 2020 13:05:33 -0700
From : Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io>
To : beta@groups.io

All,

I am making a change that will affect all new basic groups created
after Monday, 24, 2020 at 9am Pacific Time. Basic groups created
after that time will be limited to mailing list features only.

.
.
.

Please let me know if you have any questions.

Thanks,
Mark


moderated Re: Changes to new basic groups #update

KWKloeber
 

On Tue, Aug 11, 2020 at 06:09 PM, Andy Wedge wrote:
On Tue, Aug 11, 2020 at 08:25 PM, Ken Kloeber wrote:
jump to Premium
I'd rather more people jumped to a premium account than a price rise for existing premium customers.


Andy
 Well of course  - that’s optimum.  $$trength in numbers.

We did jump. Just now.  

Not “the ship”, of course. 


moderated Re: Changes to new basic groups #update

Andy Wedge
 

On Tue, Aug 11, 2020 at 08:25 PM, Ken Kloeber wrote:
jump to Premium
I'd rather more people jumped to a premium account than a price rise for existing premium customers.

Andy


moderated Re: Changes to new basic groups #update

KWKloeber
 

On Tue, Aug 11, 2020 at 01:04 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
We have a long standing policy of not changing things for existing groups.
Mark
Would this include current pricing for premium groups? As in jump to Premium before the rollback for new groups and the price will be held.  I’m trolling for a reason(s)/benefit(s) to get our group  owner to go Premium (which I believe we should and have lobbied for that. 


moderated Re: #bug #bug

 

On Tue, Aug 11, 2020 at 10:16 AM admin fali.org <admin@...> wrote:
For about 3 days now I have been getting multiple message, 20+ as a guesstimate,  for some of our messages that are posting. I am the group moderator but some of our members are complaining of the same problem. This could be a major deterrent to them remaining with this group which is an important part of our membership. Please help as soon as possible. Our email boxes are filling up with messages that have already been handled.


The problem is with Network Solutions, your email provider. After we send the body of an email to them, we have to wait for a response, indicating that they got the message ok, or if there was an error. The issue is that they're not responding back to us in a timely manner. We timeout and have to try sending the message again, because we're not sure they received it. Normally this shouldn't be a problem because email providers can tell if they've received a message more than once, because each email has a unique identifier, called the Message-ID. Get two emails with the same Message-ID, and you know you've gotten a duplicate and can throw one away. But it appears Network Solutions is not doing that. So the combination of those two things means you could end up with a bunch of duplicate emails.

I just changed how long we wait for an answer after sending the email body. So maybe that will fix it for you. But my suggestion is to complain to them, because they're having problems and need to fix them.

(Also in the future, please try to use a more descriptive subject line. I normally edit them if they are not descriptive before I approve the messages, but this one slipped by).

Thanks,
Mark


moderated #bug #bug

admin fali.org
 

For about 3 days now I have been getting multiple message, 20+ as a guesstimate,  for some of our messages that are posting. I am the group moderator but some of our members are complaining of the same problem. This could be a major deterrent to them remaining with this group which is an important part of our membership. Please help as soon as possible. Our email boxes are filling up with messages that have already been handled.

Amy O'Rourke
admin@...


moderated Re: Changes to new basic groups #update

 

On Tue, Aug 11, 2020 at 9:58 AM Ken Kloeber via groups.io <KWKloeber=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
On Mon, Aug 10, 2020 at 04:07 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
This change will not affect existing groups.

Mark what about groups that went premium for a YahCHOO! transfer intending to drop back after the year?  They are “existing” groups that get full benefits?


They are existing groups, so will not be affected. 

I understand that things change over time, but other than this change  will “things” (whatever they may be) remain status quo for all groups as to whatever the “things”/policies that were in place when they signed up?  The drop-backs would be one of those type policies but I would imagine that there’s other ones as well.  


We have a long standing policy of not changing things for existing groups. Of course I cannot predict the future, but I don't anticipate that changing anytime soon.


Cheers,
Mark


moderated Re: Do not delete pending messages after 14 days #suggestion

Chris Jones
 

On Mon, Aug 10, 2020 at 04:40 PM, Ondřej Čertík wrote:
Would it be possible to add an option to never delete pending messages automatically?
You probably won't thank me for saying this but the problem is not the automatic deletion after 14 days but the fact that you left your Spam Box unchecked for 2 months.

I would argue that a message is likely to lose its currency after 24 hours, never mind 14 let alone 60 days; on top of that I am slightly surprised that after that amount of time your ISP had not automatically cleared your Spam Box.

If you had just set your group up then I suspect that you never checked the web UI and did not have any other person appointed to moderate messages.

As a matter of principle spam boxes ought to be checked far more frequently than every two months whether or not this is to find any messages from Groups.io. There are ways of setting your email service up so that the risk of Groups.io mails being shunted off is minimised; one common one is to ensure that the address that Groups.io uses to send messages to you is listed in your service provider's contact list.

In asking for a "never delete" option you are IMHO seeking to address an incorrect diagnosis of the problem.

Chris


moderated Re: Changes to new basic groups #update

KWKloeber
 

On Mon, Aug 10, 2020 at 04:07 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
This change will not affect existing groups.

Mark what about groups that went premium for a YahCHOO! transfer intending to drop back after the year?  They are “existing” groups that get full benefits?

It doesn’t affect us, but it would seem to be akin to a bait n switch for those folks.

I understand that things change over time, but other than this change  will “things” (whatever they may be) remain status quo for all groups as to whatever the “things”/policies that were in place when they signed up?  The drop-backs would be one of those type policies but I would imagine that there’s other ones as well.  

No argument you need to and hope you make this sustainable, and well, maybe the model wasn’t projected out far enough or invalid assumptions used.  On the other hand there’s groups who may have jumped here expecting that, say, after 2-3 years the growth in membership would push them to a premium due to storage. The problem is (and this example is exaggerated simply to make the point clear) if they knew the premium was $100 but 2-3 yrs later it’s “Sorry, it’s now $1,000,” that’s a hard pill to swallow having made sacrifices to go G.io, only to find they’re now under a rock pile. 

i try to tell people there ain’t no free lunch and if something seems to good to be true, well yes, it’s probably too good to be true. 

thx, ken


moderated Re: Changes to new basic groups #update

 

On Tue, Aug 11, 2020 at 5:13 AM Alan N <amnast@...> wrote:
Very sorry to hear this.  IMHO, Groups.io would be a more sustainable business model if Mark reduced the Premium tier to $10/mo (or a flat $100/yr paid in advance).  That would be a lot more palatable pricing model for the majority (I presume) of groups that have no revenue stream or dues structure.  Otherwise, I fear Groups.io will not be sustainable for the long run.


Groups were priced at $10/month for 2.5 years before the price increase last October (and that's still the price for those legacy premium groups who have been paying all along). The data does not agree with your assessment.

Cheers,
Mark


moderated Re: Changes to new basic groups #update

 

Ok. Points well-taken. I won't worry. :-)


On Tue, Aug 11, 2020 at 9:40 AM Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:
On Tue, Aug 11, 2020 at 7:13 AM J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:
I have to admit that I, too, felt some panic about the sustainability of groups.io when I first read this announcement. My premium group (for cats) is grandfathered in for pricing and my basic group (for my block) is grandfathered in for features, so I personally made it under the wire. But this does have the smell of yahoo groups, and although I am hanging onto trust that the combination decided on for pricing and features was the best combination possible, I worry that groups.io will have trouble distinguishing itself from yahoo going forward, and that instead of making things more sustainable, it might have the opposite effect. 


Not sure I see the comparison. Yahoo doesn't even offer most of the features we have. If someone goes with Y Groups these days (or Google Groups for that matter), then I have either not marketed the Groups.io advantages well, or they would not be a good customer fit for us.

Thanks,
Mark


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Changes to new basic groups #update

 

On Tue, Aug 11, 2020 at 7:13 AM J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:
I have to admit that I, too, felt some panic about the sustainability of groups.io when I first read this announcement. My premium group (for cats) is grandfathered in for pricing and my basic group (for my block) is grandfathered in for features, so I personally made it under the wire. But this does have the smell of yahoo groups, and although I am hanging onto trust that the combination decided on for pricing and features was the best combination possible, I worry that groups.io will have trouble distinguishing itself from yahoo going forward, and that instead of making things more sustainable, it might have the opposite effect. 


Not sure I see the comparison. Yahoo doesn't even offer most of the features we have. If someone goes with Y Groups these days (or Google Groups for that matter), then I have either not marketed the Groups.io advantages well, or they would not be a good customer fit for us.

Thanks,
Mark


moderated Re: Do not delete pending messages after 14 days #suggestion

Duane
 

On Tue, Aug 11, 2020 at 09:31 AM, Linda Perry wrote:
Is this the same with pending members?
Yes.  With either, you can go to the web site and Claim them so they won't be automatically deleted.  (To Claim a message, you can choose to Edit it, then select Cancel.)

Duane


moderated Re: Do not delete pending messages after 14 days #suggestion

Linda Perry
 

Is this the same with pending members?  I find they are disappearing as well. Is there a way to change this?

Linda Perry
Linda@...
www.peachhead.net
Twitter:  Peachhead


moderated Re: Changes to new basic groups #update

 

I have to admit that I, too, felt some panic about the sustainability of groups.io when I first read this announcement. My premium group (for cats) is grandfathered in for pricing and my basic group (for my block) is grandfathered in for features, so I personally made it under the wire. But this does have the smell of yahoo groups, and although I am hanging onto trust that the combination decided on for pricing and features was the best combination possible, I worry that groups.io will have trouble distinguishing itself from yahoo going forward, and that instead of making things more sustainable, it might have the opposite effect. 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Add the full range of photo editing tools to the Photos albums "photo edit" #suggestion

KWKloeber
 

Bruce,

✔️✔️


-Ken


Ken

Sent from my phone


moderated Re: Changes to new basic groups #update

Sandi D <sandi.asgtechie@...>
 

Thanks for explaining.

I hope you will consider a way to ease the financial burden this would impose on the smaller, community focused Non Profits. We really struggle on our shoestring budget and GIO has been a lifesaver to us in regards to communication.

Our ASG mission is both educational and service focused. We respond within hours to a variety of needs including those from local hospitals, regional food banks and shelters, state disasters, deployed overseas troops and more recently the global pandemic.

Please consider offering NP's free or minimal subscriptions or list your free or minimal subscription rates on TechSoup.com. TechSoup is a verification mechanism for NPs. For a small Tech Soup administrative free we have been able to afford a variety of technical equipment and services ranging from hardware, to software to internet based services. In other cases we have found a NP pricing link on the service site which is easier on us as no 3rd party discount codes are involved. 

Thanks for considering this, 
--
Sandi Dickenson
ASG Volunteers Group, a 501(c) non profit


moderated Re: Changes to new basic groups #update

 

Agree that an interim pricing with limited features could be much more appealing.

i understand this is Mark’s business and he is free to make the rules but also feel that once users have been enticed to use his services it might be useful to run a poll or something to find out what features users are willing to pay for.  I think files and an occasional poll are important while others are more interested in photos. 

The wiki is a unique feature of groups.io and, IMO, shouldn’t be eliminated from free basic groups - maybe limit number of,pages. 

Patti in AZ


moderated Re: Changes to new basic groups #update

 

On Tue, Aug 11, 2020 at 06:19 AM, Duane wrote:

If a group wants to make the information available about contacting other
members, they could make the Members list visible to everyone.  I don't find
the member directory very useful since it only shows other members those that
have chosen to make their profile public.
Ah, I mixed up member list and member directory. My point was just to see who else is in the group, if the group owner sets it up that way.

JohnF


moderated Re: Changes to new basic groups #update

Alan N
 

Very sorry to hear this.  IMHO, Groups.io would be a more sustainable business model if Mark reduced the Premium tier to $10/mo (or a flat $100/yr paid in advance).  That would be a lot more palatable pricing model for the majority (I presume) of groups that have no revenue stream or dues structure.  Otherwise, I fear Groups.io will not be sustainable for the long run.

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