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moderated Re: Testing Notifications; Fault or Feature? #bug

 

Chris,

*Suggestion 1:* consider making _all_ Group Notifications
*un*moderated, ... hitherto File uploads have been “instantly”
notified. i.e. unmoderated.
On 2020-06-19 these were put under control of the group's Message Moderation setting, as not doing so was seen as a bug.
https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/25466

I think it also served to avoid forcing group mods to find/create each relevant hashtag and mark it "Moderated". At least in moderated groups.

Where an individual member chooses to notify the membership of an
upload the existing configuration sends Moderators (a) a Moderat*or*
Notification, (b) a Moderat*ion* Notification (subject to Group
Moderation Setting – see above) and (c) the “published” message,
i.e. 2 or perhaps 3 related notifications.

In addition, (a) and (b) are visually almost identical,
Your (b) has the Subject text "Message Approval Needed ...", making it quite distinct from the other two, IMO. And the body content is completely different.

and their arrival in order (a)(b) is not certain. ... This is likely
to be a source of confusion.
Why? I guess because you think they're visually almost identical, but I'm not seeing that in either the Subject or the body text.

On the other hand, (a) and (c) have /similar/ subjects and bodies.

But (a) lacks the hashtag in its subject, and has your email address in the To: field, whereas (c) is hashtagged and has the group's posting address in the To: field. Their footers are also different, with (c) having the standard group message footer.

*Suggestion 2:* When a member chooses to Notify members then the
Moderat*ors’* Notification is superfluous and should not be sent.
It isn't though. At least not for a moderator who doesn't have the permission to moderate messages, or who has turned Pending Messages notification off.

*Suggestion 3:* (a) and (b) need to be /much/ more easily
distinguished,
See above.

*Suggestion 4:* either ... or change the Notification “subject” so
that it applies to “changes” rather than being specific to deletions
or uploads.
I vote for that one. At least when aggregated.

I assume that the “aggregation window” opens when the first deletion /
upload / edit is triggered.
Correct.

Does a second related “event” reset the timer so that the window
closes after x minutes of *in*activity or is a fixed period after the
first action?
There is a single reset of the timer. So after a max of 2 x 4 minutes.
https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/25552

Shal


moderated Re: Testing Notifications; Fault or Feature? #bug

Chris Jones
 

On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 03:49 PM, I wrote:
I'll go away and prepare the second batch, some of which are more complex
In the event things were not as complex as I anticipated...


What follows is based on the assumption that Moderators have Files & Photos Notifications on.

Group Notifications of uploads are moderated (or not) according to the group Moderation Setting, not those of the individual members.

Suggestion 1: consider making all Group Notifications unmoderated, with Group Owners / Moderators deciding their preferences and setting the relevant hashtags accordingly. (It is perhaps worth bearing in mind that hitherto File uploads have been “instantly” notified. i.e. unmoderated. This suggestion would IMHO most closely match what existed.)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Where an individual member chooses to notify the membership of an upload the existing configuration sends Moderators (a) a Moderator Notification, (b) a Moderation Notification (subject to Group Moderation Setting – see above) and (c) the “published” message, i.e. 2 or perhaps 3 related notifications.  

In addition, (a) and (b) are visually almost identical, and their arrival in order (a)(b) is not certain. (Trust me; I know!) This is likely to be a source of confusion.

Suggestion 2: When a member chooses to Notify members then the Moderators’ Notification is superfluous and should not be sent.

 Suggestion 3: (a) and (b) need to be much more easily distinguished, preferably without actually having to open the email, given that one is “FYI” and the other is “Action Required”.  This suggestion applies irrespective of Suggestion (1) because both (a) and (b) will continue to exist, albeit not at the same time.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 
If a member carries out a deletion, or number of deletions immediately followed by an upload or uploads within the “time window” then the Moderator Notification will be titled such as to refer to deletions but will include any uploads. As far as I can tell notifications about Files and Photos are not put together; the two categories do remain separate.

Suggestion 4: either a change in programming to ensure that deletions and uploads cannot appear in the same Notification, or change the Notification “subject” so that it applies to “changes” rather than being specific to deletions or uploads.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Clarification Request: I assume that the “aggregation window” opens when the first deletion / upload / edit is triggered. Does a second related “event” reset the timer so that the window closes after x minutes of inactivity or is a fixed period after the first action?

Mark; your consideration of the above would be much appreciated. I think I have now covered all the "matters arising" but time will tell. :)

Chris


moderated Separate delete permission for database tables #suggestion

Andy Wedge
 

Hi Mark,

granting a member 'edit' permission on a database table also allows them to delete a row. Can we separate the edit into Update and Delete permissions to allow finer control over who does what.

Use of database tables has taken off recently in my subgroups but we have a need to limit the size of the tables. As there's currently no way to set a maximum size of table (see my message #25278) and we only want 6 entries per table, the creator pre-defines 6 rows for people to fill in. The Add Row permission is not granted so members cannot increase the size of the table but we frequently get members deleting rows instead of just removing their details from a pre-defined row, which means the table owner ends up having to add an empty row again.

Thanks
Andy


moderated Make date formats in calendar messages match local preferences #suggestion

Andy Wedge
 

Hi Mark,

Can we get the date format in calendar messages matching the local preferences please?  Here's the subject of a cal-reminder message that appeared for one of my subgroups today:

Upcoming Event: Observer Update - Sat, 07/11/2020 9:00am-10:30am #cal-reminder

Here in the UK (and many other places) this is naturally read as 7th November 2020 when the actual event is on 11th July 2020 (11/07/2020).

Thanks,
Andy


moderated Re: Moderator notifications enabled for all #update

 

Mark,

I've been trying to grasp all the new notification variations and hope this summary is not too far off. Does this begin to describe the events and subsequent notifications?

One thing that stood out at me is that the notices sent to Moderators don't carry a hashtag.

This means that group activities (e.g. File, Photo, Wiki changes) create two different types of notices: a Group Notice and a Moderator Notice. The Group Notice is optional (as you've noted), has the corresponding hashtag, posts to the group's messages, and the web/app is opt-in. The Moderator Notice is not controlled by the person who took the action, does not carry a hashtag, is not stored on site, and is Opt-out for both email and web/app.

Member Notices (generated manually via the Members list, or automatically via the Member Notices tab of the group Settings page) are like Moderator Notices in that they do not carry a hashtag, and are not stored on site, but they cannot be opted-out by the member.

You also need a row for "Message posted in a Topic with a hashtag" because they act like Group Notices too: the member can opt-in for a web/app notification of such message postings. Yup, any old hashtag, not just the system-defined ones.

I haven't done a cross-check with the Notifications page in GMF's Wiki, but that may turn up something if you haven't done that already.

Shal


moderated Re: Moderator notifications enabled for all #update

Mark Murphy
 

I've been trying to grasp all the new notification variations and hope this summary is not too far off. Does this begin to describe the events and subsequent notifications?

Event or Action System Hashtag Notice Sent To Web/App
Calendar event cancelled #cal-cancelled Group Opt-in
Calendar invitation created #cal-invite Group Opt-in
Calendar notice created #cal-notice Group Opt-in
Calendar reminder created #cal-reminder Group Opt-in
Chat created or modified #chat-notice Group Opt-in
Database table created or modified   Moderators Opt-out
File folder modified #file-notice Group Opt-in
File uploaded #file-notice Group* Opt-in
Group content reported   Moderators Opt-out
Guidelines updated #guidelines-notice Group Opt-in
Member approval pending   Moderators Opt-out
Member join or leave   Moderators Opt-out
Message approval pending   Moderators Opt-out
Monthly notice sent #monthly-notice Group Opt-in
Photo album modified   Moderators Opt-out
Photo uploaded #photo-notice Moderators Opt-out
Group* Opt-in
Poll created or sent #poll-notice Group Opt-in
Storage limit reached   Moderators Opt-out
Subgroup created or deleted   Moderators Opt-out
Wiki page created or modified #wiki-notice Moderators Opt-out
Group* Opt-in
 * Group notification is optional when the action is performed


kjhkjh







* asdfasdf


moderated Re: Testing Notifications; Fault or Feature? #bug

Chris Jones
 

On Mon, Jul 6, 2020 at 08:24 PM, I wrote:
I'll try to report within 48 hours.
I am going to split this into two chunks. The first one is below.

Having carried out a whole series of tests my first batch of observations and suggestions is set out below. I would like to think that they are “complete” but there almost certainly things that I have missed. (Sorry!)

 

Simple – to – report things first:

  •  The creation of a Folder is notified, but the creation of a photo Album is not. (Note: there is a mix of terminology here; in the Activity log a Folder is called a directory, and the Notification refers to a directory as well; IMHO it would be better if the word directory was not used.

 

  • The Move of a.File is notified, but the Move of a Photo is not. FWIW there is no available entry in the Activity log for the movement of a Photo.

 

  • If a Photo is Edited, e.g. by adding some Description or changing its Name then a Notification is generated but the notification is to the effect that a new upload has taken place. This has the potential to be profoundly confusing. (Name changing can be a useful way of determining the order in which photos are displayed in an album, and adding a Description cannot be done at the time of upload; it can only be done by editing; neither action should be seen as in any way unusual. ) Edits should be notified as edits, not new uploads.

 

  • Notifications of Folder / File activities are by instigator’s Display Name only but Notifications of Album / Photo activity are by Display Name and email address.  It should be by Display name only.  

 

  • At this time deletions, edits and the like are not sent to the original owner of the material. If that notification is introduced, then it is essential that the notification is an accurate summary of what was done and not a complete mis – description. I would suggest that any such edit provides the option of including a “Reason for Edit” that can (again optionally) be fed back to the original owner.  That “reason for edit” would not need to be stored for future reference; its only purpose would be to advise the material’s originator of why changes were being made.

    Having said that while "uploaders" have the ability to not notify members of an upload I would prefer to have the ability to not inform original uploaders of any edits or deletions.

I'll go away and prepare the second batch, some of which are more complex... :(

Chris

 


moderated Re: hashtags don't appear #bug

Bruce Bowman
 

On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 09:59 AM, Moderators wrote:
About half the time (can't see any consistent reason) hashtags do not appear in the subject line when moderator adds them.
You're probably adding a hashtag to a reply, instead of the original message.

Hashtags are a function of a topic, not a message. Thus, a hashtag will be stripped if not already present in the topic that it's threaded into.

If a hashtag appears to be missing from an existing topic, you have to edit the topic.

Regards,
Bruce


moderated hashtags don't appear #bug

Moderators
 

About half the time (can't see any consistent reason) hashtags do not appear in the subject line when moderator adds them.
They must be typed manually. 

Sharon


moderated Re: Moderator notifications enabled for all #update

 

Mark,
Great! Thanks.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Testing Notifications; Fault or Feature? #bug

Chris Jones
 

On Mon, Jul 6, 2020 at 06:24 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
Not intentional, it was a bug. Just fixed.
Mark; many thanks. I have done some further investigations that have (I think) revealed further oddities.

At one point I thought I had actually broken Groups.io, or at least one corner of it.

I'll try to report within 48 hours.

Chris


moderated Re: Moderator notifications enabled for all #update

 

Hi All,

I've just changed it so that moderator notifications are also not emailed to the moderator who generated them. Previously moderator notifications didn't generate push notifications for the moderator who generated them (this is still the case as well) but were still emailed to them.

Cheers,
Mark


moderated Re: No user ID metadata in exported Photos zip file #bug #fixed

paul fox
 

mark wrote:
> On Sun, Jul 5, 2020 at 07:44 AM, paul fox wrote:
>
> >
> > Is there a reason that the json files that accompany the exported
> > image folders in the exported zip file don't include the Owner name
> > that was associated with the folder on the site, along with the Title,
> > Description, and creation date?
> >
>
> I've added more information to both the album and photo json exports.

Thanks!

=----------------------
paul fox, pgf@... (arlington, ma, where it's 71.8 degrees)


moderated Re: Database column headers obscuring description text #bug #fixed

 

On Thu, Jul 2, 2020 at 03:54 AM, Andy Wedge wrote:

I've also noticed that the column header overwrites the Your Groups drop-down menu:

This has been fixed.

Thanks, Mark


moderated Re: Testing Notifications; Fault or Feature? #bug

 

Chris,

On Wed, Jul 1, 2020 at 4:01 AM Chris Jones via groups.io <chrisjones12=btinternet.com@groups.io> wrote:

The emailed "attribution" uses the Account Display Name, not the individual Group Display Name. My 2 Account D/Ns were the same; I edited one of them and the "fault" followed the change.

Mark: is that intentional? It seems wrong to me.


Not intentional, it was a bug. Just fixed.

Thanks,
Mark 


moderated Re: No user ID metadata in exported Photos zip file #bug #fixed

 

On Sun, Jul 5, 2020 at 07:44 AM, paul fox wrote:

Is there a reason that the json files that accompany the exported image folders in the exported zip file don't include the Owner name that was associated with the folder on the site, along with the Title, Description, and creation date?

I've added more information to both the album and photo json exports.

Cheers, Mark


moderated No user ID metadata in exported Photos zip file #bug #fixed

paul fox
 

Is there a reason that the json files that accompany the exported
image folders in the exported zip file don't include the Owner name
that was associated with the folder on the site, along with the Title,
Description, and creation date?

Losing the owner information makes it much more difficult to recreate
the original tree with correct attribution, whether re-uploading (for
resizing purposes) or hosting elsewhere.

It's possible to get the owner name from the thumbnail index of the
Photos section -- so the omission can be worked around -- but it's
way more difficult than it should be.

paul
=----------------------
paul fox, pgf@... (arlington, ma, where it's 66.4 degrees)


moderated Re: Bug in displaying Banned Members #bug

Andy Wedge
 

On Sun, Jul 5, 2020 at 03:27 AM, Rick Nakroshis wrote:
I've never seen "Past" listed before.  Do you have a top-tier (paid) group?
Yes, that would explain it.

Andy


moderated Re: Bug in displaying Banned Members #bug

Rick N
 

Andy,

I've never seen "Past" listed before.  Do you have a top-tier (paid) group?

Rick


On Sat, Jul 4, 2020 at 6:17 PM Andy Wedge <andy_wedge@...> wrote:
On Sat, Jul 4, 2020 at 05:15 PM, Rick Nakroshis wrote:
Sure thing.  Attached is a screenshot of my permissions on that group
Thanks. That set of permissions gives me Moderators, Bouncing, Banned and Past which wasn't mentioned before.  However, I can recreate the issue and I'd say it's definitely a bug. As you said, when the Ban Members permission is in effect, it works OK. Without the Ban Members permission you get this after clicking the Members option on the left side menu:



You will note that there are 4 other options, including Banned, on the drop-down.  If you select Banned here, then you see this:



Now there are 5 options and this time it also includes Members. It seems Groups.io knows that the selected option is not Members (so it now appears in the drop-down) but without the Ban Members permission, it will not display the Banned list. The result is the malformed button and it still shows the member list.

After further testing, I found it's possible to recreate this issue if either Set Member Subscription Options or Set Moderator Privileges is checked.  I'm sure Mark will be able to resolve this when he returns from holiday.

Regards,
Andy





moderated Re: Bug in displaying Banned Members #bug

Andy Wedge
 

On Sat, Jul 4, 2020 at 05:15 PM, Rick Nakroshis wrote:
Sure thing.  Attached is a screenshot of my permissions on that group
Thanks. That set of permissions gives me Moderators, Bouncing, Banned and Past which wasn't mentioned before.  However, I can recreate the issue and I'd say it's definitely a bug. As you said, when the Ban Members permission is in effect, it works OK. Without the Ban Members permission you get this after clicking the Members option on the left side menu:



You will note that there are 4 other options, including Banned, on the drop-down.  If you select Banned here, then you see this:



Now there are 5 options and this time it also includes Members. It seems Groups.io knows that the selected option is not Members (so it now appears in the drop-down) but without the Ban Members permission, it will not display the Banned list. The result is the malformed button and it still shows the member list.

After further testing, I found it's possible to recreate this issue if either Set Member Subscription Options or Set Moderator Privileges is checked.  I'm sure Mark will be able to resolve this when he returns from holiday.

Regards,
Andy