--

On Thu, Jul 9, 2020 at 01:55 PM, David McBride wrote:

When will the fix get deployed?

Looks like it should be available now, "I think I've fixed the problem".  You'll probably need to recreate the ICS files.

Duane

--

Mark -- When one deletes the last attachment from a message in the archive, it still displays the paperclip icon. It's disconcerting to click on such a message expecting a document or photo only to find that there's nothing there.

Regards,
Bruce

Hi Mark,

I know this has been mentioned in the past but I thought I'd raise it again to try and get some more traction. Can we remove the excess wording on the calendar messages please? Using the same example as my recent post about calendar messages

Upcoming Event: Observer Update - Sat, 07/11/2020 9:00am-10:30am #cal-reminder

The text 'Upcoming Event' and the #cal-reminder hashtag effectively serve the same purpose. Given the recent changes regarding notifications and the use of hashtags I wouldn't want to lose the hashtag on this message, but 'Upcoming Event' could be removed without losing any meaning. Sometimes, less is more.

Regards
Andy

If I...as a moderator/owner...change someone else's message delivery setting, a corresponding log entry is generated. But if they change it themselves, it doesn't. Seems inconsistent.

While we're at it, I'd like the entry to say something like "from full digest to individual emails" instead of just "changed XX person's delivery."

Thanks,
Bruce 

On Thu, Jul 9, 2020 at 05:25 AM, Steve wrote:

but today I created a new poll, I "locked" the poll per normal, but just had an (idiot) member REPLY to the new poll post rather than enter his vote.

I have just tested this in one of my subgroups and it works fine for me. I locked the topic and then responded to the poll via email from my 'member' account. A message was generated in the activity log saying:

Member <member details> attempted to send a message to locked topic <poll subject> via email

An email delivery report was also returned to my member account saying the message could not be delivered:

The response from the remote server was:

500 This topic has been locked by the moderators and can no longer be posted to.

On this basis I would say there's no bug and Groups.io is working as designed.


However, the response text from Groups.io is misleading in the case of polls as they can only be correctly responded to online and you can still vote online when the poll topic is locked. Perhaps email replies to polls should always be rejected with an appropriate message?

Regards,
Andy

Hi Valancy,

On Thu, Jul 9, 2020 at 05:24 AM, Valancy Gilliam wrote:

I as owner and one of my moderators have sent polls since joining IO Groups late last year and only recently have we learned that some members are not receiving the notifications that a poll has been posted.

If you have a look at the Email Delivery History for those members who say they haven't received the poll message you will see the most recent successful, unsuccessful and bounced message. If there are any details in the unsuccessful or bounced panels that relate to your poll message there will be a description explaining why the message didn't get through (note: this is the explanation Groups.io received from the target system as to why the message could not be delivered). Use that information to help you decide your next course of action.

Others get the email, respond to the poll, but their response is not recorded.

Polls can only be responded to online so if your members are trying to respond by email, their response will not be recorded.

 I have searched the poll options and member email options to see if there's something checked that blocks the polls from going through or registering but I see nothing that I can identify.

Did you check the member's manual? There's a good description of how to use polls there https://groups.io/helpcenter/membersmanual/1/working-with-polls

 I would prefer not to have to force my membership to physically go to IO Groups website

That's unfortunate because that's the way polls work - see above.

Regards,
Andy

"Forever" whenever I create a poll, I "lock" the poll under the topic option, to make sure that members do not REPLY to the poll post.  That has always worked.  I don't know when it stopped working, but today I created a new poll, I "locked" the poll per normal, but just had an (idiot) member REPLY to the new poll post rather than enter his vote.

I tried adding a groups.io calendar to google calendar by URL.  I retrieved the following URL from the TSC sub-group at lists.opnfv.org: [link removed by mod]

Unfortunately, the events are not appearing on my google calendar.  I tried removing and re-adding the calendar multiple times.  In some cases, I waited one or more days to see if there was some sort of time delay.  Also, note that I have followed this process for multiple calendars in the past, so this is not something new to me.  

It's possible that this could be user error, but I've been over it multiple times and I can't see what I could've done wrong (isn't that always the case?).

I as owner and one of my moderators have sent polls since joining IO Groups late last year and only recently have we learned that some members are not receiving the notifications that a poll has been posted. Others get the email, respond to the poll, but their response is not recorded. I ran a test poll last week and out of 30 members, only 12 have responded, two indicated they received the email and responded but they are not showing in the poll results. As for the others, I'm not certain but I am assuming they did not receive, or their response is not in results, as well. As we are a not-for-profit organization and with the current COVID-19 self-isolation we have been wanting to use the polls to get a gauge of membership response to issues of concern that needs resolution sooner than our monthly meeting. I have searched the poll options and member email options to see if there's something checked that blocks the polls from going through or registering but I see nothing that I can identify. Is this a known bug? If so, is there a workaround? Most of our members are not techno advanced but the poll system on IO Groups is fairly simple to use. Much easier than Survey Monkey, which we had been using prior to joining IO Groups. I would prefer not to have to force my membership to physically go to IO Groups website, and our list there, find the actual topic missive and try that way. Most will not bother, as it is not convenient, and frankly, too much trouble. 

Any assistance or advise is gratefully appreciated.

Valancy Gilliam
Moderator, Mid-America Romance Authors (MARA title on IO)

Chris,

*Suggestion 1:* consider making _all_ Group Notifications
*un*moderated, ... hitherto File uploads have been “instantly”
notified. i.e. unmoderated.

On 2020-06-19 these were put under control of the group's Message Moderation setting, as not doing so was seen as a bug.
https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/25466

I think it also served to avoid forcing group mods to find/create each relevant hashtag and mark it "Moderated". At least in moderated groups.

Where an individual member chooses to notify the membership of an
upload the existing configuration sends Moderators (a) a Moderat*or*
Notification, (b) a Moderat*ion* Notification (subject to Group
Moderation Setting – see above) and (c) the “published” message,
i.e. 2 or perhaps 3 related notifications.

In addition, (a) and (b) are visually almost identical,

Your (b) has the Subject text "Message Approval Needed ...", making it quite distinct from the other two, IMO. And the body content is completely different.

and their arrival in order (a)(b) is not certain. ... This is likely
to be a source of confusion.

Why? I guess because you think they're visually almost identical, but I'm not seeing that in either the Subject or the body text.

On the other hand, (a) and (c) have /similar/ subjects and bodies.

But (a) lacks the hashtag in its subject, and has your email address in the To: field, whereas (c) is hashtagged and has the group's posting address in the To: field. Their footers are also different, with (c) having the standard group message footer.

*Suggestion 2:* When a member chooses to Notify members then the
Moderat*ors’* Notification is superfluous and should not be sent.

It isn't though. At least not for a moderator who doesn't have the permission to moderate messages, or who has turned Pending Messages notification off.

*Suggestion 3:* (a) and (b) need to be /much/ more easily
distinguished,

See above.

*Suggestion 4:* either ... or change the Notification “subject” so
that it applies to “changes” rather than being specific to deletions
or uploads.

I vote for that one. At least when aggregated.

I assume that the “aggregation window” opens when the first deletion /
upload / edit is triggered.

Correct.

Does a second related “event” reset the timer so that the window
closes after x minutes of *in*activity or is a fixed period after the
first action?

There is a single reset of the timer. So after a max of 2 x 4 minutes.
https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/25552

Shal

On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 03:49 PM, I wrote:

I'll go away and prepare the second batch, some of which are more complex

In the event things were not as complex as I anticipated...

What follows is based on the assumption that Moderators have Files & Photos Notifications on.

Group Notifications of uploads are moderated (or not) according to the group Moderation Setting, not those of the individual members.

Suggestion 1: consider making all Group Notifications unmoderated, with Group Owners / Moderators deciding their preferences and setting the relevant hashtags accordingly. (It is perhaps worth bearing in mind that hitherto File uploads have been “instantly” notified. i.e. unmoderated. This suggestion would IMHO most closely match what existed.)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Where an individual member chooses to notify the membership of an upload the existing configuration sends Moderators (a) a Moderator Notification, (b) a Moderation Notification (subject to Group Moderation Setting – see above) and (c) the “published” message, i.e. 2 or perhaps 3 related notifications.  

In addition, (a) and (b) are visually almost identical, and their arrival in order (a)(b) is not certain. (Trust me; I know!) This is likely to be a source of confusion.

Suggestion 2: When a member chooses to Notify members then the Moderators’ Notification is superfluous and should not be sent.

 Suggestion 3: (a) and (b) need to be much more easily distinguished, preferably without actually having to open the email, given that one is “FYI” and the other is “Action Required”.  This suggestion applies irrespective of Suggestion (1) because both (a) and (b) will continue to exist, albeit not at the same time.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 
If a member carries out a deletion, or number of deletions immediately followed by an upload or uploads within the “time window” then the Moderator Notification will be titled such as to refer to deletions but will include any uploads. As far as I can tell notifications about Files and Photos are not put together; the two categories do remain separate.

Suggestion 4: either a change in programming to ensure that deletions and uploads cannot appear in the same Notification, or change the Notification “subject” so that it applies to “changes” rather than being specific to deletions or uploads.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Clarification Request: I assume that the “aggregation window” opens when the first deletion / upload / edit is triggered. Does a second related “event” reset the timer so that the window closes after x minutes of inactivity or is a fixed period after the first action?

Mark; your consideration of the above would be much appreciated. I think I have now covered all the "matters arising" but time will tell. :)

Chris

Hi Mark,

granting a member 'edit' permission on a database table also allows them to delete a row. Can we separate the edit into Update and Delete permissions to allow finer control over who does what.

Use of database tables has taken off recently in my subgroups but we have a need to limit the size of the tables. As there's currently no way to set a maximum size of table (see my message #25278) and we only want 6 entries per table, the creator pre-defines 6 rows for people to fill in. The Add Row permission is not granted so members cannot increase the size of the table but we frequently get members deleting rows instead of just removing their details from a pre-defined row, which means the table owner ends up having to add an empty row again.

Thanks
Andy

Hi Mark,

Can we get the date format in calendar messages matching the local preferences please?  Here's the subject of a cal-reminder message that appeared for one of my subgroups today:

Upcoming Event: Observer Update - Sat, 07/11/2020 9:00am-10:30am #cal-reminder

Here in the UK (and many other places) this is naturally read as 7th November 2020 when the actual event is on 11th July 2020 (11/07/2020).

Thanks,
Andy

I've been trying to grasp all the new notification variations and hope this summary is not too far off. Does this begin to describe the events and subsequent notifications?

Event or Action	System Hashtag	Notice Sent To	Web/App
Calendar event cancelled	#cal-cancelled	Group	Opt-in
Calendar invitation created	#cal-invite	Group	Opt-in
Calendar notice created	#cal-notice	Group	Opt-in
Calendar reminder created	#cal-reminder	Group	Opt-in
Chat created or modified	#chat-notice	Group	Opt-in
Database table created or modified		Moderators	Opt-out
File folder modified	#file-notice	Group	Opt-in
File uploaded	#file-notice	Group*	Opt-in
Group content reported		Moderators	Opt-out
Guidelines updated	#guidelines-notice	Group	Opt-in
Member approval pending		Moderators	Opt-out
Member join or leave		Moderators	Opt-out
Message approval pending		Moderators	Opt-out
Monthly notice sent	#monthly-notice	Group	Opt-in
Photo album modified		Moderators	Opt-out
Photo uploaded	#photo-notice	Moderators	Opt-out
		Group*	Opt-in
Poll created or sent	#poll-notice	Group	Opt-in
Storage limit reached		Moderators	Opt-out
Subgroup created or deleted		Moderators	Opt-out
Wiki page created or modified	#wiki-notice	Moderators	Opt-out
		Group*	Opt-in

 * Group notification is optional when the action is performed


kjhkjh







* asdfasdf

On Mon, Jul 6, 2020 at 08:24 PM, I wrote:

I'll try to report within 48 hours.

I am going to split this into two chunks. The first one is below.

Having carried out a whole series of tests my first batch of observations and suggestions is set out below. I would like to think that they are “complete” but there almost certainly things that I have missed. (Sorry!)

 

Simple – to – report things first:

•  The creation of a Folder is notified, but the creation of a photo Album is not. (Note: there is a mix of terminology here; in the Activity log a Folder is called a directory, and the Notification refers to a directory as well; IMHO it would be better if the word directory was not used.

 

• The Move of a.File is notified, but the Move of a Photo is not. FWIW there is no available entry in the Activity log for the movement of a Photo.

 

• If a Photo is Edited, e.g. by adding some Description or changing its Name then a Notification is generated but the notification is to the effect that a new upload has taken place. This has the potential to be profoundly confusing. (Name changing can be a useful way of determining the order in which photos are displayed in an album, and adding a Description cannot be done at the time of upload; it can only be done by editing; neither action should be seen as in any way unusual. ) Edits should be notified as edits, not new uploads.

 

• Notifications of Folder / File activities are by instigator’s Display Name only but Notifications of Album / Photo activity are by Display Name and email address.  It should be by Display name only.  

 

• At this time deletions, edits and the like are not sent to the original owner of the material. If that notification is introduced, then it is essential that the notification is an accurate summary of what was done and not a complete mis – description. I would suggest that any such edit provides the option of including a “Reason for Edit” that can (again optionally) be fed back to the original owner.  That “reason for edit” would not need to be stored for future reference; its only purpose would be to advise the material’s originator of why changes were being made.
  
  Having said that while "uploaders" have the ability to not notify members of an upload I would prefer to have the ability to not inform original uploaders of any edits or deletions.

I'll go away and prepare the second batch, some of which are more complex... :(

Chris

 

On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 09:59 AM, Moderators wrote:

About half the time (can't see any consistent reason) hashtags do not appear in the subject line when moderator adds them.

You're probably adding a hashtag to a reply, instead of the original message.

Hashtags are a function of a topic, not a message. Thus, a hashtag will be stripped if not already present in the topic that it's threaded into.

If a hashtag appears to be missing from an existing topic, you have to edit the topic.

Regards,
Bruce