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J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

On Thu, Jul 2, 2020 at 09:10 AM, Duane wrote:

Now it seems to have shifted the other way a bit.  Pending members are getting the summary.  I don't believe they're supposed to get anything about group postings until approved.  As near as we can tell, it's on groups that have chosen Summary as the default.

This should be fixed now.

Thanks, Mark

On Thu, Jun 4, 2020 at 06:16 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:

Hi All,

I think I've tracked down and fixed the missing summaries bug.

Now it seems to have shifted the other way a bit.  Pending members are getting the summary.  I don't believe they're supposed to get anything about group postings until approved.  As near as we can tell, it's on groups that have chosen Summary as the default.

Thanks,
Duane

Hi Mark,

I can see some changes have been made as the column header no longer overwrites the description (it would be good if the 'Show less' link was always left justified on its own line like the 'Show more' link). However, I've also noticed that the column header overwrites the Your Groups drop-down menu:




Regards,
Andy

On Wed, Jul 1, 2020 at 08:49 PM, Rick Nakroshis wrote:

It turned out that I did not have permission to Ban members.  When that was enabled, then the Banned member list display worked properly. Turning it back off caused the improper display again.

I cannot recreate this problem. With my Moderator account, regardless of whether banning members is enabled, the membership list display options work fine. If there is a problem, I think it's a bit more involved than just having permission to ban members(or not).

Andy

On Wed, Jul 1, 2020 at 12:49 PM, Rick Nakroshis wrote:

I suggest that if a moderator is allowed to view the member list, then they should be allowed at least a view-only capability of the Pending and Banned members.

I would not like that to happen. There are some moderators in one of my groups who should have access to the members list but not the banned members list. I don't think all moderators should see pending members, either, unless they have permission to accept/reject members.

It should be possible to fix this issue without granting superfluous and (in some cases) undesirable viewing permissions.
 
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J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

I'm a group owner of several groups and a moderator on others. I happened to be viewing member lists on a couple of groups and discovered one group I'm a moderator on had a problem when trying to display the Banned members.

There are 68 members in the group, with zero Bouncing members. When I clicked to view the Banned members, the button that should have said 'Banned' had no text on it, AND ALL 68 MEMBERS WERE LISTED.

It turned out that I did not have permission to Ban members.  When that was enabled, then the Banned member list display worked properly. Turning it back off caused the improper display again.

I suggest that if a moderator is allowed to view the member list, then they should be allowed at least a view-only capability of the Pending and Banned members. If an owner has chosen to ban someone, I'd like to be able to see who (their email address) in case they're also in my group.  Likewise, I'd like to be able to warn an owner about a prospective new member by being able to see who has applied to join that group.

Rick

Thanks Mark
This will be helpful for a number of groups - but one idea if/when you roll it out to the membership.  Can you make them opt in instead of having to opt out like the moderators are set please?  I have a number of subgroups with several moderators, and they don't always want to see notifications. I have been explaining and turning off, but I can't do that with the membership.
Thanks again
Beth

On Wed, Jul 1, 2020 at 12:10 AM, Shal Farley wrote:

Another source of puzzlement was as follows: the "Uploaded By" column
in Files had my /member/ Display Name shown (expected). However, the
Notifications showed the uploads as having been carried out by my
moderator Display Name (NOT expected).

Oh, that is weird. Looking at the upload of 1:08pm today (PDT)...

I see the same discrepancy between the Files list and both the Moderator Notices and Group Notices I received for those files you uploaded. I think the combiner somehow combined more than it should have, attributing all the individual actions to one (the first?) actor.

I have at least got somewhere with this anomaly...

The emailed "attribution" uses the Account Display Name, not the individual Group Display Name. My 2 Account D/Ns were the same; I edited one of them and the "fault" followed the change.

Mark: is that intentional? It seems wrong to me.

More investigations to follow.

Chris

Chris,

It suddenly occurred to me that the moderation requirement seen this
morning could be a function of the moderation status of the "uploader"

Possibly, but if it is I don't think it should be.

... my perspective is that of being heartily fed up with members who
upload "stuff" without bothering to announce the fact. ... and that I
and the other moderators have to trawl through the Activity Log to
find out what odd corner things have been put in.

You and the other moderators should receive the Moderator Notice for the action without regard for whether the actor chose to check "Notify Members".

If that's not working I think that would be a bug. This is really the core function I want from the Notification Overhaul.

A push notification is too transient to be of any help here.

For that reason I'll always keep email enabled for Moderator Notices. I'm not sure I'll use the Web/App delivery method at all. Its key advantage (from my point of view) is that it doesn't have the combiner delay, and that may not be enough to entice me.

Shal

Chris,

... Integration sent message "File Notifications #file-notice"
requiring approval because it's a moderated integration message via
email.

I believe the word Integration there is a misnomer, relating to the Admin | Integrations feature. Not to be confused with the combiner.

I haven't fully tested everything yet but the implication is that a
"single upload notification" would pass through without moderation
being required.

I believe the inference is incorrect, caused by the terminology error in the Activity log entry.

I was unable to replicate what I had observed earlier. In all cases
the member notification went through without the need for moderation.

If the notifications were "To:" your personal address then they were Moderator Notices (my terminology), and moderation is not required.

If they were "To:" the group posting address the they were Group Notices (again my terminology) and should obey both the group's Moderation setting and the Moderated checkbox in the hashtag for that notice.

IMO the incorporation of the File Name into a single notification is
wrong; ...

Why? I think it is better to provide the additional information in the subject, when appropriate.

Another source of puzzlement was as follows: the "Uploaded By" column
in Files had my /member/ Display Name shown (expected). However, the
Notifications showed the uploads as having been carried out by my
moderator Display Name (NOT expected).

Oh, that is weird. Looking at the upload of 1:08pm today (PDT)...

I see the same discrepancy between the Files list and both the Moderator Notices and Group Notices I received for those files you uploaded. I think the combiner somehow combined more than it should have, attributing all the individual actions to one (the first?) actor.

Shal

On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 05:09 PM, I wrote:

I was unable to replicate what I had observed earlier. In all cases the member notification went through without the need for moderation. 

Some clarification about the "protocol" would be greatly appreciated.

It suddenly occurred to me that the moderation requirement seen this morning could be a function of the moderation status of the "uploader", based on remembering that this morning's upload was by a moderated member while some photos uploaded by an unmoderated member 12 days ago resulted in a notification that did not require moderation.

Again I was unable to replicate this possibility on a test group by making my second membership "moderated". The notification happened without moderation, but again seemed to use the wrong Display Name in the notification.

I am more bewlidered than ever.

As to Andy W's Having it checked by default again would just cause more complaints about unwanted emails as most people would not consider (or just forget) to uncheck it...

I do understand your point but my perspective is that of being heartily fed up with members who upload "stuff"  without bothering to announce the fact. The upshot is that the wider membership has no idea that it's been uploaded, presumably with the intention of their reading / seeing it, and that I and the other moderators have to trawl through the Activity Log to find out what odd corner things have been put in.

A push notification is too transient to be of any help here.

Chris

On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 05:09 PM, Chris Jones wrote:

As an aside, having found (the hard way) that it is very easy to forget to tick a "notify" checkbox when doing multiple uploads, my current view is that the File & Photo checkboxes should be checked by default. Better still (to satisfy both schools of thought) the default state should be moderator settable in Settings.

If the default option of checked/unchecked is settable my a Moderator I could live with that as I would have it unchecked. Having it checked by default again would just cause more complaints about unwanted emails as most people would not consider (or just forget) to uncheck it. If it went back to checked by default I'd be left with moderating the hashtag and trying to decide whether the message was really intended by the uploader or not, which would be a PITA when I could spend my time doing other things.

Andy

Peter,
One thing we have in common is Mark Fletcher who gives us unbelievable support.
That's a "luxury" that was nonexistent on Yahoo.
Please note  that our group is a patient advocacy outreach of a nonprofit and we are accountable for every penny that we utilize because it all originates with the generosity of caring donors.
We forgo luxuries and cconcentrate on what's necessary to provide information and support to the many people with a rare vision disease.

In case you haven't noticed, the basic Database has the ability  to present location/direction Google maps via a provided link on each address.

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Bob Bellizzi

Mark; I know you are on leave at the moment but I hope you will spot this and answer it on your return.

When I switched on this morning there was a (File upload) Notification awaiting moderation, which I found slightly surprising. The member had uploaded 3 files within the "window" so the single Notification contained the 3 separate files.  A visit to the group's Activity log provided the following: Integration sent message "File Notifications #file-notice" requiring approval because it's a moderated integration message via email. I haven't fully tested everything yet but the implication is that a "single upload notification" would pass through without moderation being required. The actual uploads took place in real time without moderation. (Expected!)

I carried out some tests using a test group to which I have access but I finished up more confused than when I started. For the avoidance of doubt I have 2 memberships of that test group (i.e. I have two Groups.io Accounts); one as a moderator and the second set to "member" for these tests, and I was careful to ensure that I was only logged in to one or other account at a time; never both together. Uploads were only done using the "member" account

I was unable to replicate what I had observed earlier. In all cases the member notification went through without the need for moderation. 

Some clarification about the "protocol" would be greatly appreciated.

There were additional anomalies...

Individual File Notifications were titled: File /<file name>.docx uploaded. (Plus Hashtag) A collective notification was titled File Notification. (Plus Hashtag). IMO the incorporation of the File Name into a single notification is wrong; all (file) notifications should be titled File Notification (Plus Hashtag)

Another source of puzzlement was as follows: the "Uploaded By" column in Files had  my member Display Name shown (expected). However, the Notifications showed the uploads as having been carried out by my moderator Display Name (NOT expected). (Notifications here means both the emailed and web UI versions) As stated above at the time I carried out the uploads I was only logged in with my "member" account. FWIW I have seen that behaviour on a previous occasion but didn't think to worry about it. 

Something is telling me that this last oddity may well be involved with the first one above, but some clarification would again be greatly welcome.

As an aside, having found (the hard way) that it is very easy to forget to tick a "notify" checkbox when doing multiple uploads, my current view is that the File & Photo checkboxes should be checked by default. Better still (to satisfy both schools of thought) the default state should be moderator settable in Settings.

Chris

Hi All,

The new moderator notifications, for chat, photos, files, database, and wiki activity, have been enabled for all moderators. This also includes new settings in the Moderator Notifications panel in the Subscription and group member pages.

Cheers, Mark

On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 04:22 AM, Chris Jones wrote:

am still firmly of the view that moderators not only have the right but a duty to try to maintain order in a group's limited storage without having to explain their actions in detail on each and every occasion.

Agree 100%.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

On Tue, Jun 23, 2020 at 03:03 AM, Shal Farley wrote:

For edit I'd say the member deserves to know (and you likely deserve to fend off such questions). Maybe move too (if not notified the member might look and not find his/her content, and believe that it was deleted). I'm more willing to concede on delete: as J points out that's already a fact with messages.

I know that quite a lot of water has flowed under the bridge in the 7 days since the above was written, but...

This morning a member of the group I moderate uploaded some photos into an album he had created especially for the purpose.

He did not look to see if there was already a suitably titled album into which he could upload more photos.
He did not compose an album title that properly reflected the contents other than in a sense that was so broad as to be meaningless. .
He did not choose to notify the membership of anything, either by using the checkbox or by posting a separate message about his uploads.

He is not unique in taking a rather haphazard approach to making sure that uploads "make sense". I only found out about this uploading because I was looking in the Activity Log for something else entirely.

While I can understand the point about members being informed about edits, relocations and so on I cannot see any reason why I should have to "defend" myself for wanting to maintain some sense of order in our Photos section or anywhere else, especially when we have had a group wiki page about this sort of random uploading in existence for months.

I am still firmly of the view that moderators not only have the right but a duty to try to maintain order in a group's limited storage without having to explain their actions in detail on each and every occasion. It's also the sort of problem where the longer it's left the harder it is to do.

Chris