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moderated Re: Notifications about your own actions #misc

Chris Jones
 

On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 06:45 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
For pending messages, pending subscriptions, spam resub, join group, and create subgroup moderator notifications, if your action generated the notification, you will not receive a push notification. You will continue to receive an email notification.
I can see the logic to this, however the result is that overall email and push notifications behave differently. Anyone used to email notifications only (i.e. the existing system) will see one set of actions / responses but if they change to using push notifications only they will get a different set. This may (will?) lead to confusion. A notification of any action, even if instigated by "me" has the advantage that it tells the me that "Groups.io has done what you wanted".

Chris


moderated Re: Notifications about your own actions #misc

 

Hi All,

I've changed the push notifications policy as follows:

For pending messages, pending subscriptions, spam resub, join group, and create subgroup moderator notifications, if your action generated the notification, you will not receive a push notification. You will continue to receive an email notification.

For spam unsubscribe notifications, you will continue to receive push notifications for your own spam unsubscribes.

For storage overage notifications, since they aren't generated necessarily by a single person/action, you will continue to receive those push notifications regardless.

Again, this only affects push notifications, and only if you have them set up.

Thanks,
Mark


moderated Re: Notifications about your own actions #misc

 

Yes and yes. (No it's not confusing.;)
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Notifications about your own actions #misc

 

Hi All,

The existing moderator notifications (pending subscriber/message/etc) are always sent to the appropriate moderators, both email and push notifications (if you have them configured).

When I set up the new moderator notifications (create a chat/add file/etc), I set it so that if you were the person doing the thing that triggered the notification (ie you were the one that uploaded the photo), that you would not receive the notification, either as an email or push notification.

I have a couple of questions, triggered by J's request:

- Should I extend that change to the existing moderator notifications? 
- Should the policy instead be that email moderator notifications are always sent, but push notifications are not sent in the case where you did the thing that generated the notification?

Hopefully this isn't too confusing....


Thanks,
Mark


moderated Re: Testing notifications #misc

 

This morning I removed the hashtags from the new moderator notifications. My thinking was that these notifications aren't controlled by hashtag muting, so having the hashtags would be confusing. And it matches our existing moderator notifications, which have never had hashtags.

Thanks,
Mark


moderated Re: Testing notifications #misc

 

On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 10:42 AM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
Note that moderator notifications are not sent to you if you did the action that caused the notification.
Mark, I am getting web/app notifications whenever I post a message, because I have myself on moderation so that I can edit my messages (and to make sure I didn't send them to the wrong place). While I can live with this, I do find it a bit disconcerting every time. :) Is there a way to fix this?
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Notify Members checkboxes #update

Sandi D <sandi.asgtechie@...>
 

"Up until now the owners/mods determine if something reaches the
attention of the members."

I would like to clarify the above sentence. If I as a mod make an edit I would like to have continued control over whether or not my action reaches the attention of those in my group.

Much of my wiki edits are "clean up". It's a waste of time to notify everyone when I clean something up and then spend more time in answering posts asking me what had changed or they can't find the "new" information.

It sounds like Mark may understand that aspect. I do understand that I am fortunate to have only one area impacted but that one area created a 3 day "migraine" for myself and a headache for the members of my group. 

Shal's interim fix and then Mark's temporary one worked perfectly for my need. I am very appreciative and hope Mark's permanent solution does the same.

--
Sandi Dickenson
ASG Volunteers Group.


moderated Re: Notify Members checkboxes #update

Chris Jones
 

On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 08:06 AM, Shal Farley wrote:
The only other option is (I think) that a moderator did the edit. I would want the member to be notified in that case, you and other group owners/mods may disagree.
Again I can see the validity of this view, although I am not entirely convinced!

It raises an issue of "what is an edit?" A change of album / photo name? The addition of (or change to) the descriptive text? (Silly but valid case... correction of a spelling mistake!) Unless the notification  includes some detail what has been edited may be less than clear, leading to "what has been done, what is this notification actually telling me?

Chris


moderated Re: Notify Members checkboxes #update

 

Chris,

I am also concious that the more "individual" notifications that there
are the more important it becomes that individual members can have a
pick list of those that they (might) want and those that they don't.
That's in the group's Hashtags page already.

The member sees a Mute/Notify button (grid view) or link (list view). That brings up a page where the member can choose whether to receive the related notifications by email (Mute or not) and choose to opt-in to Web/App notification (immediate "push" notifications).

Members who've chosen the Following Only setting for Message Selection (the Advanced Preferences panel in their Subscription page) will see Follow/Notify instead.

This raises another issue; someone chooses not to receive information
about photo edits (however defined) but would that choice also apply
to edits to a photo that they themselves had uploaded?
That's an interesting case. If it was they themself that did the edit I'd say no notification is needed. The only other option is (I think) that a moderator did the edit. I would want the member to be notified in that case, you and other group owners/mods may disagree.

Shal


moderated Re: Testing notifications #misc

 

Mark,

Please let me know if you have any questions or see anything amiss.
One thing that stood out on a recent #wiki-notice was the "Integration" badge in the Pending list. I don't think that was there before, so I'll blame the combiner for it.

Shal


moderated Re: Testing notifications #misc

 

Hi All,

The new moderator notifications have been turned on for those who asked. There are also a couple changes that have just gone live for all:

- The notifications generated when a member checks a `Notify Members` checkbox are also now sent through the combiner, so they won't immediately appear in your group. If multiple notifications of the same kind are generated quickly, they will be merged into one email. Also, these notifications no longer have the 'Cheers, Groups.io Team' signature. The new per-moderator notifications now being tested work the same way.
- In the Subscription and group members pages, the `Notifications` panel has been renamed `Moderator Notifications`.

Please let me know if you have any questions or see anything amiss.

Thanks,
Mark


moderated Re: Testing notifications #misc

Duane
 

On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 03:04 PM, Bob Morley wrote:
1. But I want to know that my uploaded photo did actually get uploaded without having to go to the web and verify.

2. Perhaps even more obscure: I would *want" to be notified if a photo was uploaded under my ID and it wasn't me doing the upload.
1.  You have to be online to upload anyway.

2.  Can't be done.  Ownership of a photo can be changed after upload, but in the activity log, the original upload is always attributed to the person logged in.

Duane


moderated Re: Testing notifications #misc

Bob Morley
 


On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 02:42 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
Note that moderator notifications are not sent to you if you did the action that caused the notification. For example, if I'm a moderator of a group with photo notifications turned on, and I upload a photo, I will not get notified of it. But if someone else uploads a photo, I will get that notification.
Playing the devil's advocate:

1. But I want to know that my uploaded photo did actually get uploaded without having to go to the web and verify.

2. Perhaps even more obscure: I would *want" to be notified if a photo was uploaded under my ID and it wasn't me doing the upload. 
 
--
Gerald


moderated Testing notifications #misc

 

Hi All,

Before I roll out the new moderator notifications (for chat/files/photos/wikis/databases), I'd like some feedback on them. If you're interested, please contact me off-list and I'll enable them for you. You won't be able to turn them off during the test (that is, they will not show up in Notifications in your Subscription page). They will be set to Email and Web/App, which is the default and they will be turned on for all of your groups.

If your groups have no activity in those areas, you will receive no notifications.

Note that moderator notifications are not sent to you if you did the action that caused the notification. For example, if I'm a moderator of a group with photo notifications turned on, and I upload a photo, I will not get notified of it. But if someone else uploads a photo, I will get that notification.

Thanks,
Mark


moderated Re: Notify Members checkboxes #update

 

Sandi,

Is what you are doing changing the concept of how notifications will
function?
Yes in one major regard: you can now opt in to immediate ("push") notifications by web, and soon in the mobile device apps. See GMF's wiki page:
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum/wiki/21482

Also, there are new per-user controls for muting or following notifications. See that same wiki page.

Up until now the owners/mods determine if something reaches the
attention of the members.
Not exactly. Members have long had the option of checking the Notify Members box on the File Upload page. This remains the same, plus now that checkbox also appears on Photos upload and Wiki page create/edit.

Will the eventual change mean that is negated? That notifications will
reach the member unless they log in and change a setting?
Probably not. But not everything is settled yet (to my knowledge).

We have no photos, database and just a few files. Have used the
calendar twice in our history. Have used the pool once. We don't make
use of hashtags.
So you won't have much to be notified about. ;-)

Whatever is being changed with hash tags, I hope I will be able to
prevent a notification reaching them for superficial edits ...
Right now you have to check the Notify Members box if you want a notification posted to the group. But this is one of the areas Mark has said he's still working on.

Shal


moderated Re: Notify Members checkboxes #update

Chris Jones
 

On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 04:24 PM, Sandi D wrote:
Up until now the owners/mods determine if something reaches the attention of the members.

Will the eventual change mean that is negated?
Perhaps...

That notifications will reach the member unless they log in and change a setting?
I sincerely hope not. They ought to be able to suppress the worst effects by using the Mute this Hashtag function in the footer of a relevant email.

Two-thirds haven't ever logged in. I'm not sure I can convince them to do so.
A point that is, I think, common to many groups and one that is frequently overlooked.


Insofar as I can dictate policy to the group that I moderate that policy will be to set the various hashtags to "No Email" until a way of minimising the annoyance to individual members can be implemented. Although it would require members to log in my personal preference is a selection along the lines that exists for Email Delivery options now.

Chris


moderated Re: Notify Members checkboxes #update

Sandi D <sandi.asgtechie@...>
 

Is what you are doing changing the concept of how notifications will function?
Up until now the owners/mods determine if something reaches the attention of the members.

Will the eventual change mean that is negated? That notifications will reach the member unless they log in and change a setting?

Two-thirds haven't ever logged in. I'm not sure I can convince them to do so. They may find it easier to leave the group than to endure an uptick in notifications.

We have no photos, database and just a few files. Have used the calendar twice in our history. Have used the pool once. We don't make use of hashtags.

The wiki is our resource and reference. It links to current policy and directiveshoused off-sitem and a few files housed in the group. 

Whatever is being changed with hash tags, I hope I will be able to prevent a notification reaching them for superficial edits such as transferring content between pages, adding new pages to capture existing content, deleting information and pages that no longer serve a purpose (or conflict with changed policy) and fixing broken links, spelling and grammar. The only time I can envision a notification for a wiki change or a file change useful is if it is new information or a newly introduced policy.

--
Sandi Dickenson
ASG Volunteers Group


moderated Re: Notify Members checkboxes #update

Chris Jones
 

On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 12:57 AM, Shal Farley wrote:
And given that such an aggregation wouldn't be tied to any single hashtag, perhaps it should be Moderated.

This gives the moderator the option to approve or not, which satisfies the desire for optional exclusion rather than aggregation.
Definitely worth considering. I am also concious that the more "individual" notifications that there are the more important it becomes that individual members can have a pick list of those that they (might) want and those that they don't. This raises another issue; someone chooses not to receive information about photo edits (however defined) but would that choice also apply to edits to a photo that they themselves had uploaded?

Traditionally office desks have In, Out, and Pending Trays. I cannot comment about civil service practice anywhere in the world other than the UK, but here we have a fourth tray called "Too Difficult". It's not difficult to see why.

Chris


moderated Re: Notify Members checkboxes #update

 

Chris,

I wrote:

given that the first event kicks off a timer it might be possible for
the software to look for a sequence by the same user as well as a
sequence of the same event.
And given that such an aggregation wouldn't be tied to any single hashtag, perhaps it should be Moderated.

This gives the moderator the option to approve or not, which satisfies the desire for optional exclusion rather than aggregation.

Shal


moderated Re: Notify Members checkboxes #update

 

Chris,

A further possible complication is that any given "tidying up" session
might involve renaming an Album or Photo(s) or deleting an Album or
Photos, or moving a Photo; that list is not exhaustive. It might
easily not fit into a single Notification /however/ long the
aggregation time was.
That's an interesting point. For that use case the aggregation (or exclusion) would be better focused on the user than the activity.

I'm not sure how difficult it would be to detect that automatically, but given that the first event kicks off a timer it might be possible for the software to look for a sequence by the same user as well as a sequence of the same event. Maybe only if the user is a mod/owner, but maybe not.

It has the potential to be complicated...
Too true. Sometimes simple to implement is not simple to use, and vice versa. Great things happen when you find a concept that makes the two align.

Shal

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