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moderated Re: Notify Members checkboxes #update

Chris Jones
 

On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 12:57 AM, Shal Farley wrote:
And given that such an aggregation wouldn't be tied to any single hashtag, perhaps it should be Moderated.

This gives the moderator the option to approve or not, which satisfies the desire for optional exclusion rather than aggregation.
Definitely worth considering. I am also concious that the more "individual" notifications that there are the more important it becomes that individual members can have a pick list of those that they (might) want and those that they don't. This raises another issue; someone chooses not to receive information about photo edits (however defined) but would that choice also apply to edits to a photo that they themselves had uploaded?

Traditionally office desks have In, Out, and Pending Trays. I cannot comment about civil service practice anywhere in the world other than the UK, but here we have a fourth tray called "Too Difficult". It's not difficult to see why.

Chris


moderated Re: Notify Members checkboxes #update

 

Chris,

I wrote:

given that the first event kicks off a timer it might be possible for
the software to look for a sequence by the same user as well as a
sequence of the same event.
And given that such an aggregation wouldn't be tied to any single hashtag, perhaps it should be Moderated.

This gives the moderator the option to approve or not, which satisfies the desire for optional exclusion rather than aggregation.

Shal


moderated Re: Notify Members checkboxes #update

 

Chris,

A further possible complication is that any given "tidying up" session
might involve renaming an Album or Photo(s) or deleting an Album or
Photos, or moving a Photo; that list is not exhaustive. It might
easily not fit into a single Notification /however/ long the
aggregation time was.
That's an interesting point. For that use case the aggregation (or exclusion) would be better focused on the user than the activity.

I'm not sure how difficult it would be to detect that automatically, but given that the first event kicks off a timer it might be possible for the software to look for a sequence by the same user as well as a sequence of the same event. Maybe only if the user is a mod/owner, but maybe not.

It has the potential to be complicated...
Too true. Sometimes simple to implement is not simple to use, and vice versa. Great things happen when you find a concept that makes the two align.

Shal


moderated Re: Notify Members checkboxes #update

 

On Tue, Jun 23, 2020 at 8:50 AM Shal Farley <shals2nd@...> wrote:


Also, currently the wait time to see if there are additional notifications is under 5 minutes.

"Currently"? Does this imply implementation is rolled out?


Sorry. Not any of the new notifications. We already have a system that combines notifications; it's currently only used for Github and Trello integration messages. Github especially can generate a bunch of notifications when you're manipulating a source code repository hosted there. It's also easy to generate a bunch of notifications from Trello. If you look back at the #trello messages on beta, they're an example of the combining system. And I was wrong about the timing. Right now, it's set so that if there are no additional notifications for 4 minutes after the first one, it sends out the original notification. If it receives a new notification in that time, it resets the clock for another 4 minutes. Right now it only resets the clock once, therefore there's a maximum of an 8 minute delay.


Mark


moderated Re: Notify Members checkboxes #update

Chris Jones
 

On Tue, Jun 23, 2020 at 03:03 AM, Shal Farley wrote:
The blizzard effect is something that needs a better solution than not notifying. Maybe that's aggregating notices, maybe something else we haven't thought of yet.
Perhaps so; the difficulty is identifying the "aggregation time". A further possible complication is that any given "tidying up" session might involve renaming an Album or Photo(s) or deleting an Album or Photos, or moving a Photo; that list is not exhaustive. It might easily not fit into a single Notification however long the aggregation time was.

For edit I'd say the member deserves to know (and you likely deserve to fend off such questions). Maybe move too (if not notified the member might look and not find his/her content, and believe that it was deleted)
I do understand the point you are making, but we have a wiki section about Files & Photo uploads* that makes it clear that the Group Moderators have the right to carry out such editing (in its widest sense) as they deem necessary. That being the case members' expectation of detailed notifications ought to be reduced.

It has the potential to be complicated...

* Which is not to say that anyone's actually read it.

Chris


moderated Re: Missing reminders #bug

 

Mark,


You can look at the #bug tag on beta, specifically the topics with #bug but without #fixed.

Unfortunately, the boolean search #bug AND NOT #fixed doesn't seem to work. That would have been slick.

I'm not sure if that's a bug, or if I'm misunderstanding how the booleans work. I hadn't really tried them before.
Shal


moderated Re: Missing reminders #bug

 

On Tue, Jun 23, 2020 at 8:54 AM Don Pottenger <dhpottenger@...> wrote:
Is there a list kept somewhere where the current bugs and suggestions are prioritized so we can see where our issues stand on a priority list? Is anyone else seeing the missing reminders bug besides me? I consider this a rather serious problem for our group. I would hope it would not be that hard to fix. 

You can look at the #bug tag on beta, specifically the topics with #bug but without #fixed.

In terms of the reminders, it is, unfortunately, difficult to fix, requiring re-writing a chunk of the calendar code. I have been investigating it. I want to finish up the already-in-progress notification stuff first, and then I will address it.

You can delete your existing repeating event and completely recreate it. That will generate the correct reminders. The problem occurs when editing existing events/reminders.


Thanks,
Mark 


moderated Re: Your Subscription link in email footer opens other account subscription page #bug

Jim Wilson
 

Ok, then. Could have mentioned that already. 😐

Thanks for the update, though. I'll have to check that out.
--
Jim


moderated Re: Missing reminders #bug

Don Pottenger
 

Is there a list kept somewhere where the current bugs and suggestions are prioritized so we can see where our issues stand on a priority list? Is anyone else seeing the missing reminders bug besides me? I consider this a rather serious problem for our group. I would hope it would not be that hard to fix. 

Thanks for your consideration.


moderated Re: Notify Members checkboxes #update

 

Mark,


Also, currently the wait time to see if there are additional notifications is under 5 minutes.

"Currently"? Does this imply implementation is rolled out?

One more question, for the new moderator notifications, should they default the same as the existing moderator notifications? That is, should they default to Email And Web/App?

I concur with J, "Yes".

I think otherwise they're out of sight out of mind. Moderators should be a bit more resilient and ready to learn than rank-and-file members, so I don't mind as much giving them new things to learn.

Shal


moderated Re: Notify Members checkboxes #update

 

On Tue, Jun 23, 2020 at 08:36 AM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
for the new moderator notifications, should they default the same as the existing moderator notifications? That is, should they default to Email And Web/App?
I "vote" yes on this.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Notify Members checkboxes #update

 

On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 7:30 PM Shal Farley <shals2nd@...> wrote:

 > My thinking with aggregation is that when an email notification is
 > generated, I'll wait N minutes to send it out to see if any
 > additional, similar email notifications are generated. If so, I'll
 > combine them.

I still have concerns about timeliness, but maybe it isn't such a big
deal that I should worry about first-one-out delay.
https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/25395

For the aggregated notifications, if you're worried about timeliness, there's always web/app notifications, which won't be aggregated and are delivered instantly. Also, currently the wait time to see if there are additional notifications is under 5 minutes.

 
But it suddenly occurs to me that moderator notices (such as
member/message approval) should not be aggregated, under any scheme.

Agreed.

One more question, for the new moderator notifications, should they default the same as the existing moderator notifications? That is, should they default to Email And Web/App? These are the Chats/Files/Photos/Wikis/Database notifications.

Thanks,
Mark 


moderated Re: Your Subscription link in email footer opens other account subscription page #bug

Andy Wedge
 

On Tue, Jun 23, 2020 at 02:40 PM, Jim Wilson wrote:
I contend it is far easier and far more reliable to use an alternate browser for concrete session isolation.
I use Firefox Multi-Account Containers which keeps cookies and session details isolated between tabs.




No need for multiple browsers and different windows. I use a different coloured tab for each login (Owner/Mod/Member). Simple and effective.

Andy


moderated Re: Your Subscription link in email footer opens other account subscription page #bug

Jim Wilson
 

Sorry, Duane, that's not true.

I just tested it with FF and the exact same thing happens with multiple tabs in a private window as well as multiple private windows. That means session information is still shared among multiple private tabs and even multiple private windows. That also means you should not force a logon for a different user in another tab or second window because it risks corrupting the entire session in an unpredictable manner.

Having said all that and having checked FF docs which indicate session information is compartmentalized between primary and private windows, I tested with a regular FF window logged into GIO as "Member A" and then opened a separate private window addressed to GIO and it clearly showed it was not automatically authenticated as Member A. So, in that singular scenario, it would appear to create two isolated sessions correctly. I still wouldn't recommend it, though.

I contend it is far easier and far more reliable to use an alternate browser for concrete session isolation.
--
Jim


moderated Re: Notify Members checkboxes #update

 

Beth,

I have attempted to keep up with this discussion, and I have to
confess that I have gotten lost.
If it helps, I've been trying to keep track of the current implementation in a page on GMF's Wiki:
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum/wiki/21482

Shal


moderated Re: Your Subscription link in email footer opens other account subscription page #bug

Duane
 

On Tue, Jun 23, 2020 at 07:39 AM, Jim Wilson wrote:
the only way to create reliable isolation is to use two (or more) browsers
The latest versions of browsers, at least Firefox, allow you to open multiple private tabs that are totally isolated, so your logic would no longer apply.  I've only used them for testing as it can get quite confusing.

Duane


moderated Re: Your Subscription link in email footer opens other account subscription page #bug

Jim Wilson
 

That is not the way to test among several accounts. It is very unreliable and/or unpredictable because the login is cached for the entire browser, not individual tabs.

The proof is that, after fully logging out, close and reopen the browser. Visit https://groups.io/ and login with a member account. Then open another tab and visit https:/groups.io/ in that tab and you will see you are automatically logged in as the same member as the first tab because the session is maintained for the entire browser window. Further proof is that logging out with the second tab will log you out on the first tab.

In other words, the only way to create reliable isolation is to use two (or more) browsers (such as Chrome and FF) or simply login and logout with a single browser.
--
Jim


moderated Re: Notify Members checkboxes #update

Janice
 

As a group of longarm quilters, we rely a lot on the photos feature.  My members would like to have the ability to comment directly in the photo album of a particular quilt and they would also like a like/dislike button on each photo.  This would help to cut down on message traffic giving praises to the photo owner for their quilting.  They are very thankful for the new Notify Members check box. 

Thank you for all your hard work trying to please a large number of people.

Janice B
New Statler Siblings
Worldwide Long Arm Quilters 


moderated Re: Notify Members checkboxes #update

Beth Weld
 

I have attempted to keep up with this discussion, and I have to confess that I have gotten lost.  As an aside, I was going to reply at the end of the topic, but there is no reply "button"  - so - Mark, sorry for replying to your original message.

As we talk about all of these notifications, I see way too many notifications in my future as an owner, for my moderators and for my members.
I do not want to receive a blizzard of notifications, and neither do my moderators or members.  As long as we can turn them off, I think it is great for others who need all of the tracking.  I already have people telling me that they receive too many messages so this is a sensitive subject for my group. 
Many thanks
Beth


moderated Re: Databases #suggestion #done

 

Peter,

Is it possible to ‘freeze’ the top row of a database /a la/ Excel etc?
It is particularly irksome when editing or viewing an entry and then
wondering what the column is? If you get my drift.
I don't get your drift. In Excel (and most spreadsheets) the columns are only identified by letters, unless you've used a row for that.

In the Database each column is not only identified by the Name you gave that column in the table definition, but also the Description you gave it. The Description is shown when adding or editing a row. Unlike Excel you can't edit the cells in place, so one always has the opportunity to see each column's Description for those operations.

I'll grant though, it would be nice to have an option to freeze the column header (Names) while scrolling the table (since I generally have my Items Per Page set at 100).

Shal