Date   
moderated Re: Testing notifications #misc

 

Mark,

Please let me know if you have any questions or see anything amiss.
One thing that stood out on a recent #wiki-notice was the "Integration" badge in the Pending list. I don't think that was there before, so I'll blame the combiner for it.

Shal

moderated Re: Testing notifications #misc

 

Hi All,

The new moderator notifications have been turned on for those who asked. There are also a couple changes that have just gone live for all:

- The notifications generated when a member checks a `Notify Members` checkbox are also now sent through the combiner, so they won't immediately appear in your group. If multiple notifications of the same kind are generated quickly, they will be merged into one email. Also, these notifications no longer have the 'Cheers, Groups.io Team' signature. The new per-moderator notifications now being tested work the same way.
- In the Subscription and group members pages, the `Notifications` panel has been renamed `Moderator Notifications`.

Please let me know if you have any questions or see anything amiss.

Thanks,
Mark

moderated Re: Testing notifications #misc

Duane
 

On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 03:04 PM, Bob Morley wrote:
1. But I want to know that my uploaded photo did actually get uploaded without having to go to the web and verify.

2. Perhaps even more obscure: I would *want" to be notified if a photo was uploaded under my ID and it wasn't me doing the upload.
1.  You have to be online to upload anyway.

2.  Can't be done.  Ownership of a photo can be changed after upload, but in the activity log, the original upload is always attributed to the person logged in.

Duane

moderated Re: Testing notifications #misc

Bob Morley
 


On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 02:42 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
Note that moderator notifications are not sent to you if you did the action that caused the notification. For example, if I'm a moderator of a group with photo notifications turned on, and I upload a photo, I will not get notified of it. But if someone else uploads a photo, I will get that notification.
Playing the devil's advocate:

1. But I want to know that my uploaded photo did actually get uploaded without having to go to the web and verify.

2. Perhaps even more obscure: I would *want" to be notified if a photo was uploaded under my ID and it wasn't me doing the upload. 
 
--
Gerald

moderated Testing notifications #misc

 

Hi All,

Before I roll out the new moderator notifications (for chat/files/photos/wikis/databases), I'd like some feedback on them. If you're interested, please contact me off-list and I'll enable them for you. You won't be able to turn them off during the test (that is, they will not show up in Notifications in your Subscription page). They will be set to Email and Web/App, which is the default and they will be turned on for all of your groups.

If your groups have no activity in those areas, you will receive no notifications.

Note that moderator notifications are not sent to you if you did the action that caused the notification. For example, if I'm a moderator of a group with photo notifications turned on, and I upload a photo, I will not get notified of it. But if someone else uploads a photo, I will get that notification.

Thanks,
Mark

moderated Re: Notify Members checkboxes #update

 

Sandi,

Is what you are doing changing the concept of how notifications will
function?
Yes in one major regard: you can now opt in to immediate ("push") notifications by web, and soon in the mobile device apps. See GMF's wiki page:
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum/wiki/21482

Also, there are new per-user controls for muting or following notifications. See that same wiki page.

Up until now the owners/mods determine if something reaches the
attention of the members.
Not exactly. Members have long had the option of checking the Notify Members box on the File Upload page. This remains the same, plus now that checkbox also appears on Photos upload and Wiki page create/edit.

Will the eventual change mean that is negated? That notifications will
reach the member unless they log in and change a setting?
Probably not. But not everything is settled yet (to my knowledge).

We have no photos, database and just a few files. Have used the
calendar twice in our history. Have used the pool once. We don't make
use of hashtags.
So you won't have much to be notified about. ;-)

Whatever is being changed with hash tags, I hope I will be able to
prevent a notification reaching them for superficial edits ...
Right now you have to check the Notify Members box if you want a notification posted to the group. But this is one of the areas Mark has said he's still working on.

Shal

moderated Re: Notify Members checkboxes #update

Chris Jones
 

On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 04:24 PM, Sandi D wrote:
Up until now the owners/mods determine if something reaches the attention of the members.

Will the eventual change mean that is negated?
Perhaps...

That notifications will reach the member unless they log in and change a setting?
I sincerely hope not. They ought to be able to suppress the worst effects by using the Mute this Hashtag function in the footer of a relevant email.

Two-thirds haven't ever logged in. I'm not sure I can convince them to do so.
A point that is, I think, common to many groups and one that is frequently overlooked.


Insofar as I can dictate policy to the group that I moderate that policy will be to set the various hashtags to "No Email" until a way of minimising the annoyance to individual members can be implemented. Although it would require members to log in my personal preference is a selection along the lines that exists for Email Delivery options now.

Chris

moderated Re: Notify Members checkboxes #update

Sandi D
 

Is what you are doing changing the concept of how notifications will function?
Up until now the owners/mods determine if something reaches the attention of the members.

Will the eventual change mean that is negated? That notifications will reach the member unless they log in and change a setting?

Two-thirds haven't ever logged in. I'm not sure I can convince them to do so. They may find it easier to leave the group than to endure an uptick in notifications.

We have no photos, database and just a few files. Have used the calendar twice in our history. Have used the pool once. We don't make use of hashtags.

The wiki is our resource and reference. It links to current policy and directiveshoused off-sitem and a few files housed in the group. 

Whatever is being changed with hash tags, I hope I will be able to prevent a notification reaching them for superficial edits such as transferring content between pages, adding new pages to capture existing content, deleting information and pages that no longer serve a purpose (or conflict with changed policy) and fixing broken links, spelling and grammar. The only time I can envision a notification for a wiki change or a file change useful is if it is new information or a newly introduced policy.

--
Sandi Dickenson
ASG Volunteers Group

moderated Re: Notify Members checkboxes #update

Chris Jones
 

On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 12:57 AM, Shal Farley wrote:
And given that such an aggregation wouldn't be tied to any single hashtag, perhaps it should be Moderated.

This gives the moderator the option to approve or not, which satisfies the desire for optional exclusion rather than aggregation.
Definitely worth considering. I am also concious that the more "individual" notifications that there are the more important it becomes that individual members can have a pick list of those that they (might) want and those that they don't. This raises another issue; someone chooses not to receive information about photo edits (however defined) but would that choice also apply to edits to a photo that they themselves had uploaded?

Traditionally office desks have In, Out, and Pending Trays. I cannot comment about civil service practice anywhere in the world other than the UK, but here we have a fourth tray called "Too Difficult". It's not difficult to see why.

Chris

moderated Re: Notify Members checkboxes #update

 

Chris,

I wrote:

given that the first event kicks off a timer it might be possible for
the software to look for a sequence by the same user as well as a
sequence of the same event.
And given that such an aggregation wouldn't be tied to any single hashtag, perhaps it should be Moderated.

This gives the moderator the option to approve or not, which satisfies the desire for optional exclusion rather than aggregation.

Shal

moderated Re: Notify Members checkboxes #update

 

Chris,

A further possible complication is that any given "tidying up" session
might involve renaming an Album or Photo(s) or deleting an Album or
Photos, or moving a Photo; that list is not exhaustive. It might
easily not fit into a single Notification /however/ long the
aggregation time was.
That's an interesting point. For that use case the aggregation (or exclusion) would be better focused on the user than the activity.

I'm not sure how difficult it would be to detect that automatically, but given that the first event kicks off a timer it might be possible for the software to look for a sequence by the same user as well as a sequence of the same event. Maybe only if the user is a mod/owner, but maybe not.

It has the potential to be complicated...
Too true. Sometimes simple to implement is not simple to use, and vice versa. Great things happen when you find a concept that makes the two align.

Shal

moderated Re: Notify Members checkboxes #update

 

On Tue, Jun 23, 2020 at 8:50 AM Shal Farley <shals2nd@...> wrote:


Also, currently the wait time to see if there are additional notifications is under 5 minutes.

"Currently"? Does this imply implementation is rolled out?


Sorry. Not any of the new notifications. We already have a system that combines notifications; it's currently only used for Github and Trello integration messages. Github especially can generate a bunch of notifications when you're manipulating a source code repository hosted there. It's also easy to generate a bunch of notifications from Trello. If you look back at the #trello messages on beta, they're an example of the combining system. And I was wrong about the timing. Right now, it's set so that if there are no additional notifications for 4 minutes after the first one, it sends out the original notification. If it receives a new notification in that time, it resets the clock for another 4 minutes. Right now it only resets the clock once, therefore there's a maximum of an 8 minute delay.


Mark

moderated Re: Notify Members checkboxes #update

Chris Jones
 

On Tue, Jun 23, 2020 at 03:03 AM, Shal Farley wrote:
The blizzard effect is something that needs a better solution than not notifying. Maybe that's aggregating notices, maybe something else we haven't thought of yet.
Perhaps so; the difficulty is identifying the "aggregation time". A further possible complication is that any given "tidying up" session might involve renaming an Album or Photo(s) or deleting an Album or Photos, or moving a Photo; that list is not exhaustive. It might easily not fit into a single Notification however long the aggregation time was.

For edit I'd say the member deserves to know (and you likely deserve to fend off such questions). Maybe move too (if not notified the member might look and not find his/her content, and believe that it was deleted)
I do understand the point you are making, but we have a wiki section about Files & Photo uploads* that makes it clear that the Group Moderators have the right to carry out such editing (in its widest sense) as they deem necessary. That being the case members' expectation of detailed notifications ought to be reduced.

It has the potential to be complicated...

* Which is not to say that anyone's actually read it.

Chris

moderated Re: Missing reminders #bug

 

Mark,


You can look at the #bug tag on beta, specifically the topics with #bug but without #fixed.

Unfortunately, the boolean search #bug AND NOT #fixed doesn't seem to work. That would have been slick.

I'm not sure if that's a bug, or if I'm misunderstanding how the booleans work. I hadn't really tried them before.
Shal

moderated Re: Missing reminders #bug

 

On Tue, Jun 23, 2020 at 8:54 AM Don Pottenger <dhpottenger@...> wrote:
Is there a list kept somewhere where the current bugs and suggestions are prioritized so we can see where our issues stand on a priority list? Is anyone else seeing the missing reminders bug besides me? I consider this a rather serious problem for our group. I would hope it would not be that hard to fix. 

You can look at the #bug tag on beta, specifically the topics with #bug but without #fixed.

In terms of the reminders, it is, unfortunately, difficult to fix, requiring re-writing a chunk of the calendar code. I have been investigating it. I want to finish up the already-in-progress notification stuff first, and then I will address it.

You can delete your existing repeating event and completely recreate it. That will generate the correct reminders. The problem occurs when editing existing events/reminders.


Thanks,
Mark 

moderated Re: Your Subscription link in email footer opens other account subscription page #bug

Jim Wilson
 

Ok, then. Could have mentioned that already. 😐

Thanks for the update, though. I'll have to check that out.
--
Jim

moderated Re: Missing reminders #bug

Don Pottenger
 

Is there a list kept somewhere where the current bugs and suggestions are prioritized so we can see where our issues stand on a priority list? Is anyone else seeing the missing reminders bug besides me? I consider this a rather serious problem for our group. I would hope it would not be that hard to fix. 

Thanks for your consideration.

moderated Re: Notify Members checkboxes #update

 

Mark,


Also, currently the wait time to see if there are additional notifications is under 5 minutes.

"Currently"? Does this imply implementation is rolled out?

One more question, for the new moderator notifications, should they default the same as the existing moderator notifications? That is, should they default to Email And Web/App?

I concur with J, "Yes".

I think otherwise they're out of sight out of mind. Moderators should be a bit more resilient and ready to learn than rank-and-file members, so I don't mind as much giving them new things to learn.

Shal

moderated Re: Notify Members checkboxes #update

 

On Tue, Jun 23, 2020 at 08:36 AM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
for the new moderator notifications, should they default the same as the existing moderator notifications? That is, should they default to Email And Web/App?
I "vote" yes on this.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

moderated Re: Notify Members checkboxes #update

 

On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 7:30 PM Shal Farley <shals2nd@...> wrote:

 > My thinking with aggregation is that when an email notification is
 > generated, I'll wait N minutes to send it out to see if any
 > additional, similar email notifications are generated. If so, I'll
 > combine them.

I still have concerns about timeliness, but maybe it isn't such a big
deal that I should worry about first-one-out delay.
https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/25395

For the aggregated notifications, if you're worried about timeliness, there's always web/app notifications, which won't be aggregated and are delivered instantly. Also, currently the wait time to see if there are additional notifications is under 5 minutes.

 
But it suddenly occurs to me that moderator notices (such as
member/message approval) should not be aggregated, under any scheme.

Agreed.

One more question, for the new moderator notifications, should they default the same as the existing moderator notifications? That is, should they default to Email And Web/App? These are the Chats/Files/Photos/Wikis/Database notifications.

Thanks,
Mark