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moderated Re: New notifications #update

Andy Wedge
 

With the introduction of push notifications we can get an immediate notice if a chat starts via the #chat-notice tag.  What would make this little used feature of Groups.io (my impression) more useful is if push notifications could be enabled for individual chat messages and on the Chats screen, a count of unread messages in the same way that the number of pending messages or subscription requests are shown.

Regards,
Andy


moderated Re: Minor notification changes #update

Chris Jones
 

On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 07:07 AM, Shal Farley wrote:
That is, Mark didn't rename the old #wiki into #wiki-notices, he just added the new one internally, and it gets created in the group when used.
Aha; I think I can now see where I managed to mislead myself; sorry Mark!!

Aslo thanks to Andy W for his point.

These points triggered me into investigating an action that others might want to consider.

If a group owner or moderator sets up the -notice hashtags in anticipation of their use then those tags can be preset to be "Moderators Only" (to prevent their use by members other than by triggering a notification) and set them to "No Email" should that be the preferred option.

However, setting to No Email requires a small action on Mark's part... please!

Notification messages read... This email message is a notification... etc. Can I request that the word "email" be removed, because if a moderator sets the hashtag to No Email then no email is generated, risking leaving members who see the web UI to wonder why they didn't get an email.

Chris


moderated Re: Minor notification changes #update

Andy Wedge
 

On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 07:07 AM, Shal Farley wrote:

That is, Mark didn't rename the old #wiki into #wiki-notices, he just added the new one internally, and it gets created in the group when used.
I have a moderated #wiki hashtag defined in my testing subgroup from the first incarnation of these and no #wiki-notice. I just updated a wiki page and I see a pending message with a #wiki-notice tag that is sent out if I approve it. However, a new #wiki-notice hashtag is not created, the new message shows as an extra message tied to the old #wiki hashtag.

Andy


moderated Re: Minor notification changes #update

 

Chris,

After Mark's changes I'm certain that I had a look and the /-notice/
had been added to the hashtags, but now it has vanished again.
Oh! I misunderstood you. Now I see what you mean.

I think what happened is that the Hashtag pages now have both spellings if the feature was used in your group during both intervals of time.

That is, Mark didn't rename the old #wiki into #wiki-notices, he just added the new one internally, and it gets created in the group when used.

At least that's what I see in GMF - There are both spellings in the list/grid view, with the #wiki hashtag listing only the one topic created while it existed, and the #wiki-notice hashtag listing the two that have posted since.

I should probably instantiate all the other new spellings manually, and adjust them all to use the orange color I put on the old ones and have a description. After the dust settles again I can probably alias the old ones out of the list.

Shal


moderated Re: Notify Members checkboxes #update

 

Mark,

Ok, so create a bunch of new per-moderator notification toggles under
the 'Notifications' section of each moderator's subscription, that
have to do with the various types of content on the site (ie wiki,
files, photos, etc), anything we send a #-notify message about.
Yes, I like that better than what I suggested.

The sending of these notifications to moderators would be independent
of whether the notification ended up being sent to the group or not.
The notifications to moderators would be what I'm currently sending to
the groups when the 'Notify Members' checkbox is checked.

In this scenario, I would keep the newly added group notifications,
along with their default-unchecked 'Notify Members' checkbox.

Is that right?
Yes!

I actually want to notify the group members in my social groups. In those I'd probably set "Notify Members" on by default if I could.

Probably not so much in my PTA group, but members have very little capability there (all but announcement only). All the Wiki, File and Photo content comes from the moderators.

That's like the concept of subscribing to notifications about
something. The creator of the wiki page would be automatically
subscribed to notifications of changes to it, with the option to
unsubscribe at any time.
Precisely. It may make sense to subscribe any member who edits the page also.

I'd also apply it to cases where someone (a moderator perforce, I think) edits the Description and other info about their Photos, Files, and Calendar events as well. I'm not sure what to say about Database tables (maybe yes) and rows (hm...), but the principle seems to apply there too.

Shal


moderated Re: Minor notification changes #update

Chris Jones
 

On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 01:42 AM, Shal Farley wrote:
So maybe the notifications just aren't happening in your group now.
I'm not sure why that should matter. Just after this process started someone did a couple of photo uploads and I did a wiki edit, all of which were notified in the format without -notice. After Mark's changes I'm certain that I had a look and the -notice had been added to the hashtags, but now it has vanished again.

Unless of course I imagined the whole thing... :(

I'll try a couple of test uploads later.

Chris


moderated Site updates #changelog

 

Changes to the site this week:

  • CHANGE: Guidelines sent monthly will now have the hashtag #guidelines-notice.
  • CHANGE: Monthly notices will now have the hashtag #monthly-notice.
  • BUGFIX: Notification messages did not obey group moderation settings.
  • NEW: Added notifications for new photos uploaded and wiki additions/changes. Added the #file-notify hashtag to file upload notifications.
  • CHANGE: When uploading files, the checkbox to notify the group is now checked by default.
  • INTERNAL: Changed combinerd daemon to use nsqd.
  • INTERNAL: Added a utility to check for and fix timezone subscription copy-down inconsistencies in the database.
  • CHANGE: Fixed plain text digest subject lines to include subject tags/group titles
  • NEW: Add a Send A Test Notification button in the Account notifications page to test if notifications are working.
  • BUGFIX: Fix issue with merging a topic into a topic that had an apostrophe in the subject line.
  • BUGFIX: If attempting to upload a photo to the Files section, and the group is configured to disallow that, we would still generate an upload notification.
  • NEW: Web push notifications are now supported for Chrome, Firefox and Opera browsers via a new tab in the Account section.
  • NEW: You can specify to have push notifications sent on a per-hashtag basis.
  • NEW: Moderator notifications will now be sent by default via both email and web push notifications, if you have them configured. Moderator notification settings are now dropdowns instead of checkboxes.
  • NEW: Moderator notifications for pending members and pending messages will only be sent to moderators with privileges to approve them.

Take care everyone.

Mark


moderated Re: Notify Members checkboxes #update

 

Hi Shal,

On Fri, Jun 19, 2020 at 8:41 PM Shal Farley <shals2nd@...> wrote:

1) If the user chooses not to Notify Members, or if a Notification's
hashtag controls would cause it not to be posted by email, send it to
each owner/moderator by email, and/or web/app notification, regardless -
subject only to that owner/moderator's Email and Notifications settings.

Ok, so create a bunch of new per-moderator notification toggles under the 'Notifications' section of each moderator's subscription, that have to do with the various types of content on the site (ie wiki, files, photos, etc), anything we send a #-notify message about. The sending of these notifications to moderators would be independent of whether the notification ended up being sent to the group or not. The notifications to moderators would be what I'm currently sending to the groups when the 'Notify Members' checkbox is checked.

In this scenario, I would keep the newly added group notifications, along with their default-unchecked 'Notify Members' checkbox.

Is that right?

 
2) Under the same conditions, send/push it to the owner of the affected
content anyway (unless it is they themselves taking the action). The
concept here is to follow the precedent of Message editing, where the
poster of a message is always informed of any edit. I'd like to see that
concept extended to the other content a member may contribute.

That's like the concept of subscribing to notifications about something. The creator of the wiki page would be automatically subscribed to notifications of changes to it, with the option to unsubscribe at any time.

Thanks,
Mark 


moderated Re: Notify Members checkboxes #update

 

On Fri, Jun 19, 2020 at 08:41 PM, Shal Farley wrote:
I did not anticipate that these notifications would be shared with the entire membership
This is why I've been suggesting a separate controls/options page for when and to whom each notification is emailed out in a group. I think you need to be able to control if the notification is sent to just moderators, for example. I'm with you on the wiki changes, for one. All the time I've been requesting wiki change notifications, I never dreamed they would be sent out to the whole group, just to the mods. It also depends on who in a group has permissions to do these actions (e.g., upload files). In my group, only mods can do that so there's no situation where a member can upload a file and choose not to notify. Maybe notifications should be coordinated with permissions.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Notify Members checkboxes #update

 

Mark,

I have changed the |Notify Members| checkbox when uploading files so
that it defaults to being unchecked, as before. I have also added new
|Notify Members| checkboxes when adding/updating wiki pages and when
uploading photos. They default to being unchecked.
I know that this is just a stopgap, but the directions many commenters are pushing make this mechanism unfit for purpose. At least for my needs.

My vision for the notifications overhaul was most fundamentally that I, as a group moderator, would get notification of group activity. Creating / editing content in any group area: all in. I did not anticipate that these notifications would be shared with the entire membership, and with that all the push-back that has caused.

If a member can choose not to notify me, if a group owner can decide not to allow notification of a given type of content, or of any type, then it doesn't suit the needs of a moderator who wants to actually moderate - which requires knowledge of what's being stored in the group.

Two things I think can help.

1) If the user chooses not to Notify Members, or if a Notification's hashtag controls would cause it not to be posted by email, send it to each owner/moderator by email, and/or web/app notification, regardless - subject only to that owner/moderator's Email and Notifications settings.

2) Under the same conditions, send/push it to the owner of the affected content anyway (unless it is they themselves taking the action). The concept here is to follow the precedent of Message editing, where the poster of a message is always informed of any edit. I'd like to see that concept extended to the other content a member may contribute.

Shal


moderated Re: New notifications #update

Bruce Bowman
 

On Fri, Jun 19, 2020 at 07:58 PM, Shal Farley wrote:
This hints at two other things to watch for: Group Guidelines and Monthly Reminder. These particular notifications can only be created by a group moderator, so I don't think they need to obey any group-wide moderation setting when posting (and they haven't, to date).
I'd also be interested to know what plans may be in the works for the integration hashtags (#email, #feed, etc).

Bruce


moderated Re: New notifications #update

 

It’s not a bad idea. It’s not as if there’s not already the ability to delete messages from the archives, so it doesn’t violate anything sacred. But this is way off topic.

On Jun 19, 2020, at 5:50 PM, Shal Farley <shals2nd@gmail.com> wrote:

J,

So there’s now a no-archive option on topics (and hashtags)?

No, that was just my proposal.

I do think it would fill the bill as a per-notification off switch. But it is a bit of a sharp edged tool that might be confusing if misapplied to ordinary group postings.

Shal


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: New notifications #update

 

J,

So there’s now a no-archive option on topics (and hashtags)?

No, that was just my proposal.

I do think it would fill the bill as a per-notification off switch. But it is a bit of a sharp edged tool that might be confusing if misapplied to ordinary group postings.

Shal


moderated Re: Minor notification changes #update

 

Chris,

Has this change been reverted? I cannot find any in the *#xxxx-notice*
format now, and I definitely saw them yesterday.
What has been reverted is the default check for the Notify Members box on file uploads. So maybe the notifications just aren't happening in your group now.
https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/25463

Shal


moderated Re: New notifications #update

 

No, totally. There has to be a way to turn them off, I agree. It’s just a funny way of doing it. (I know Mark has now provided another way.) So there’s now a no-archive option on topics (and hashtags)? Seriously?

On Jun 19, 2020, at 5:35 PM, Shal Farley <shals2nd@gmail.com> wrote:

J,

Lol no-archive, no-email. I’ll have ham and eggs but hold the ham and
hold the eggs. 😊
Yup, you get what you deserve: nothing.

But that's precisely what some group owners have said they want with respect to the new notifications.

Shal


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: New notifications #update

 

J,

Lol no-archive, no-email. I’ll have ham and eggs but hold the ham and
hold the eggs. 😊
Yup, you get what you deserve: nothing.

But that's precisely what some group owners have said they want with respect to the new notifications.

Shal


moderated Re: New notifications #update

 

Shal,
Lol no-archive, no-email. I’ll have ham and eggs but hold the ham and hold the eggs. 😊

On Jun 19, 2020, at 5:25 PM, Shal Farley <shals2nd@gmail.com> wrote:

J,

Shal's crazy-brilliant idea of setting the tags to "moderated," as
well as to "no email," should work for most people meanwhile.
Also for the record, I didn't come up with those. But I have been repeating them. Wish I remembered who deserves due credit.

I did suggest "No Archive" as a new counterpart to "No Email" though.
https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/25029

Shal


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: New notifications #update

 

J,

Shal's crazy-brilliant idea of setting the tags to "moderated," as
well as to "no email," should work for most people meanwhile.
Also for the record, I didn't come up with those. But I have been repeating them. Wish I remembered who deserves due credit.

I did suggest "No Archive" as a new counterpart to "No Email" though.
https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/25029

Shal


moderated Re: New notifications #update

 

J,

That's odd. Mine are sent monthly but have only the #guidelines
hashtag.
Whoops, right you are.

The #monthly was in the Subject box of the notice's page; so I probably did that.

Shal


moderated Re: New notifications #update

 

On Fri, Jun 19, 2020 at 04:58 PM, Shal Farley wrote:
Currently (as of 06-01) the monthly group guidelines message has two hashtags: #monthly #guidelines;
That's odd. Mine are sent monthly but have only the #guidelines hashtag.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

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