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moderated Re: New notifications #update

 

On Fri, Jun 19, 2020 at 6:20 AM Duane <txpigeon@...> wrote:

I've just discovered a serious problem with these notifications.  They all bypass the group setting of moderating all messages.  It's causing mayhem for several group owners.

This should be fixed now.

Thanks,
Mark 


moderated Re: make app/web notify apply when tags are added to existing topics #suggestion

 

Thanks, Mark. I even just now tried first adding the tag and then sending a message within the thread, akin to your "this is now fixed" messages, and there is still no effect on the notifications. This makes sense. Just some wishful thinking.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: make app/web notify apply when tags are added to existing topics #suggestion

 

On Fri, Jun 19, 2020 at 7:57 AM J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:
Suppose I want to get web/app notifications for the tag #fixed in beta, to see when bugs (including ones I might have reported) are marked as #fixed. I don't think this would work because as I understand it, the notification only goes out when a new message bears the tag, not when an existing one gets the tag added. I haven't tested this but it would be great if the notification could go out whenever a tag is added.

Your understanding of how it currently works is correct.


Mark 


moderated Notify Members checkboxes #update

 

Hi All,

I have changed the Notify Members checkbox when uploading files so that it defaults to being unchecked, as before. I have also added new Notify Members checkboxes when adding/updating wiki pages and when uploading photos. They default to being unchecked.

I think of this as a stopgap measure until I can address the issues raised in a more complete fashion. I will work to come up with a proposal either later today or Monday.

Thanks, Mark


moderated Re: New notifications #update

Chris Jones
 

On Fri, Jun 19, 2020 at 04:31 PM, Bruce Bowman wrote:
Seems to me that the hashtag's "lock topic" mechanism is best reserved to address Chris's concern about people replying to the notification
If I'm honest I am now wondering about the wisdom of that idea, for reasons triggered by Shal's comment. I simply cannot work out in my own head what the optimum (for which read least annoying) settings might be, and being honest again I don't want to spend much time on thinking about it until the situation is more stable than it currently is; with the end point of the development being as yet undefined, any "solution" could turn out to be somewhat short - lived.

Someone - Andy I think - brought up Shal's occasional point about "least astonishment" at some point, and I think that ought to be a guiding principle here.

Chris.


moderated Re: New notifications #update

Bruce Bowman
 

On Fri, Jun 19, 2020 at 09:53 AM, Andy Wedge wrote:
Another thing I have noticed (testing some file uploads) is that if you lock the file upload topic in the archive and then do another upload:

a) the upload completes OK
b) a message is placed in the activity log to confirm which file was uploaded
c) no extra message is placed in the archive (as expected because the topic is locked)
d) here is no activity log entry to say that someone tried to send a message to a locked topic

I'm not sure if it is supposed to work that way or not in respect of (d) but it shows that locking the topic can also prevent new notifications being sent. I suspect the threading algorithm is playing a part here and a further upload in a few days time will generate another topic.
Seems to me that the hashtag's "lock topic" mechanism is best reserved to address Chris's concern about people replying to the notification (ref: https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/25438).

For that reason I'd actually prefer that each notification appear in its own topic. 

Regards,
Bruce


moderated make app/web notify apply when tags are added to existing topics #suggestion

 

Suppose I want to get web/app notifications for the tag #fixed in beta, to see when bugs (including ones I might have reported) are marked as #fixed. I don't think this would work because as I understand it, the notification only goes out when a new message bears the tag, not when an existing one gets the tag added. I haven't tested this but it would be great if the notification could go out whenever a tag is added.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: New notifications #update

Andy Wedge
 

Another thing I have noticed (testing some file uploads) is that if you lock the file upload topic in the archive and then do another upload:

a) the upload completes OK
b) a message is placed in the activity log to confirm which file was uploaded
c) no extra message is placed in the archive (as expected because the topic is locked)
d) here is no activity log entry to say that someone tried to send a message to a locked topic

I'm not sure if it is supposed to work that way or not in respect of (d) but it shows that locking the topic can also prevent new notifications being sent. I suspect the threading algorithm is playing a part here and a further upload in a few days time will generate another topic.

Andy


moderated Member Status #bug

Duane
 

I ran into this bug this morning.  A member was Moderated.  I changed him to NMM, but the badge hasn't changed.  I've gone back in to verify that his page actually says NMM.

Thanks,
Duane


moderated Re: New notifications #update

Andy Wedge
 

On Fri, Jun 19, 2020 at 02:20 PM, Duane wrote:
I've just discovered a serious problem with these notifications.  They all bypass the group setting of moderating all messages.  It's causing mayhem for several group owners.
Confirmed. You need the hashtag itself to be moderated in order to end up with a pending message.

Andy


moderated Re: New notifications #update

 

For the record, I am loving the new push notification functionality. No longer do I have to go into the site, or check my email, to see that there's a message pending approval, etc. It just alerts me, quickly, efficiently, and unobtrusively. And if there is any particular hashtag I want to keep close tabs on, I no longer have to keep checking on that, either.

I don't see any problem with people not liking them because they have to be proactively turned on. I do see an urgent need to be able to turn off the message notifications, however. Shal's crazy-brilliant idea of setting the tags to "moderated," as well as to "no email," should work for most people meanwhile.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: New notifications #update

Duane
 

On Wed, Jun 17, 2020 at 05:38 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
Please let me know if you have any questions or suggestions.
I've just discovered a serious problem with these notifications.  They all bypass the group setting of moderating all messages.  It's causing mayhem for several group owners.

Thanks,
Duane


moderated Re: New notifications #update

 

Dave,
just to avoid misunderstandings: The above citations are Duane´s words. I cited them twice unintentionally and I fully underline them. In my message I then tried to specify the requirements of my groups.
Victoria


moderated Re: New notifications #update

Dave Sergeant
 

And there has been a flurry of postings on here as well, most of which
I deleted.... The only notifications I NEED are new membership requests
for approval and the linked 'new member' one. I don't care if somebody
has added a new file or photo, if it is important they will comment in
the relevant message thread. Or for that matter loads of long
#hastags-yourfavouriteextension which just makes subject lines long for
no reason.

Dave

On 19 Jun 2020 at 1:47, Victoria via groups.io wrote:

I did an informal survey of some of my members.  No one wants any/all
these notifications sent to them.  They don't care what goes on behind
the scenes, they just want useful information that is posted to the
group that may help them with problems.  Even as a moderator/owner,
there are very few that I'd want to see, mostly when something on the
group is changed - photos added, wiki page added/changed, file uploaded,
messages edited, etc. (and then via email, not instant browser
notifications) - but not notify the whole group.  There's already been a
flurry of complaints on GMF due to the notices being sent to the groups.

http://davesergeant.com


moderated Re: New notifications #update

 

I did an informal survey of some of my members.  No one wants any/all these notifications sent to them.  They don't care what goes on behind the scenes, they just want useful information that is posted to the group that may help them with problems.  Even as a moderator/owner, there are very few that I'd want to see, mostly when something on the group is changed - photos added, wiki page added/changed, file uploaded, messages edited, etc. (and then via email, not instant browser notifications) - but not notify the whole group.  There's already been a flurry of complaints on GMF due to the notices being sent to the groups.

 
On Thu, Jun 18, 2020 at 11:08 AM, Duane wrote:
"I  did an informal survey of some of my members.  No one wants any/all these notifications sent to them.  They don't care what goes on behind the scenes, they just want useful information that is posted to the group that may help them with problems.  Even as a moderator/owner, there are very few that I'd want to see, mostly when something on the group is changed - photos added, wiki page added/changed, file uploaded, messages edited, etc. (and then via email, not instant browser notifications) - but not notify the whole group.  There's already been a flurry of complaints on GMF due to the notices being sent to the groups."

I  was quite surprised to realize that notifications of all kinds are now sent to the group. I wanted to see what had changed and tested it by uploading a file. I then realized that all of a sudden the little check box "notify members" was checked by default, the opposite of what was the standard all these years. So now, if one doesn´t uncheck it, every little upload or change is being sent to the group. This is not very appropriate, in my opinion.

The requirements of many moderators and owners - as I understand them - is the option to be notified when a member or another moderator uploads a photo, a file, a database or a wiki information, which is something that could be added to the rest of the notifications.


In my humble opinion all of these notifications for moderators should be optional (and owner´s privilege to set them), just like the rest of them. And the "notify members" check box for the uploading of files, photos and so on should stay empty so that they can be checked if desired.
Victoria


moderated Re: New notifications #update

 

Sandi,

PLEASE, find a way so that our members are not bombarded with Wiki
updates.
It's not perfect, but as a stopgap you can set the Wiki notifications to No Email, or put them on moderation and delete them in Pending. See:
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum/wiki/21482

Shal


moderated Re: New notifications #update

Sandi D <sandi.asgtechie@...>
 

Our group is under an umbrella of a Parent Non-Profit. We are in the midst of updating 2020 content as well as proofing.
I am disturbed that 28 Wiki notifications were generated just TODAY! I did not see anything to check or uncheck to avoid members being notified.
PLEASE, find a way so that our members are not bombarded with Wiki updates. 
I am about ready to delete the entire Wiki site rather than to finish the Project of updating them.
Wiki was one of the most attractive features and overnight it has become a nightmare. 

--
Sandi Dickenson
ASG Volunteers Group.


moderated Re: New notifications #update

 

Michael,

I called no names.
I never thought you did.

My intent was to be anything but impudent, impertinent, insolent,
cheeky, audacious, or in any way rude.
I was applying that label to my own statement, not to anything you said.

I do disagree with the notion that anyone needs more training,
On the contrary, if a member doesn't know how to use the available features, then they can use more training.

Which was my point: a member who finds the additional email traffic unwelcome has an existing way to turn them off. But at the same time I recognize that many of those same people don't want to be bothered with having to deal with it. Which is why I labelled my response "impudent" - it doesn't show due respect for the other person's concerns and circumstances.

If a Group Owner wants an option off, what is the need for some
members to turn those on?
It is exactly what you said: "some people might like these Notifications." When the group owner disables the feature for all that imposes a worse user experience on the members who would like the feature.

Isn't the Owner supposed to be able to decide that for each of their
groups.
There is always a bit of tug-of-war between what group owners want to control, and what members want to control for themselves. The question is whether the service can find a healthy balance between these competing needs and wants.

In proposing a default muting scheme I am looking for such a balance: address the immediate need to tone down the surprise, provide a way for owners to pre-set members' preferences as they deem best, yet allow the members to change it if they so desire.

Shal


moderated Re: New notifications #update

Michael Pavan
 

On Jun 18, 2020, at 3:49 PM, Shal Farley <shals2nd@gmail.com> wrote:

Michael,

While these Notifications might be informative and perhaps useful to
some, the additional email traffic they generate is unwelcome for many
people, especially if their Inbox is already very busy.
Impudent response: sounds like your members need to learn what the Mute link in the message footer is for.
I called no names.
My intent was to be anything but impudent, impertinent, insolent, cheeky, audacious, or in any way rude. I was acknowledging that some people might like these Notifications.

I do disagree with the notion that anyone needs more training, rather than Groups.io's features should be selectable to best suit all users.
Won't Groups.io be more successful if it is more user-friendly (easier to use) than not?

Why shouldn't Group Owners be able to customize their groups to best suit their participants?

Why insist everyone needs to use all features?
If so, why is it possible to choose/unchoose some, but not others?
And if not, what is wrong with easy, suitable controls to turn off undesired features, rather than having to undergo tedious workarounds?


In fact I don't have a problem with having a group option to Mute the new system notification hashtags for all members, as each new hashtag is implemented. Retroactively perhaps for the three recent ones (#file, #photo & #wiki).
If a Group Owner wants an option off, what is the need for some members to turn those on?
Isn't the Owner supposed to be able to decide that for each of their groups.

But I wouldn't do that to the well established #cal-xxx hashtags.
I believe the #cal-xxx hashtags started about 2 years ago - that doesn't mean that there are satisfactory controls for them yet...

Again, Groups/Owners/members may desire some, all, or no hashtags.


moderated Re: New notifications proposal #misc

 

On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 01:20 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
users can check a box to turn a hashtag into a web/app notification.
I was so late to this party that the above just struck me. I didn't realize, until looking more closely at my group's hashtag page just now, where I was at first perplexed to see that they ALL have the notification box, that you can now get push notifications for any hashtag. This is WAY more brilliant than I thought. Kudos, Mark.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

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