Date   

moderated Re: Web notifications now enabled #update

 

On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 6:36 PM Bruce Bowman <bruce.bowman@...> wrote:

Mark -- I'm still confused...or perhaps I should say, more confused than normal. :-)

Although I've just enabled it (Chrome/W10), I'm still not seeing any function by which to receive or retrieve a "web push notification." How is this implemented? Will there be an icon with a number (like FB) to click on, a banner notice, a new filter for the activity log, or ???.

No, there's no notifications center or red badge of unread notifications. Your desktop browser has the capability to display notifications (if you've configured it as such). This is just a way for your browser to send you notifications. Do you ever go to a website and it pops up a dialog box asking if you'd like to be sent notifications about updates? This is that, but less obnoxious.

Mark


moderated Re: Web notifications now enabled #update

 

On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 7:37 PM J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:
I think I missed the word "push," so this is only available for mobile at this point. I typically don't use mobile for groups.io so I'll just have to wait for what I'm hoping/assuming is the notification overhaul for non-mobile?

It's not for mobile (or at least not only for mobile). It's mainly for desktop (and won't work at all on IOS yet). I'm not sure why it's not showing up in your Firefox. You may need to go into the Mac Settings app and allow notifications for Firefox. 


Mark


moderated Re: Web notifications now enabled #update

 

I think I missed the word "push," so this is only available for mobile at this point. I typically don't use mobile for groups.io so I'll just have to wait for what I'm hoping/assuming is the notification overhaul for non-mobile?
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Web notifications now enabled #update

 

p.s. I'm on a Macbook, if that makes any difference.


On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 7:11 PM J_Catlady via groups.io <j.olivia.catlady=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 02:41 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
Moderator notifications for pending members and pending messages will now only be sent to moderators with privileges to approve them. Previously these notifications were sent to all moderators. Also, the options to set/change these notifications no longer appear in the Subscription page for moderators without those privileges.
Yay for that. (Now if we could also make actions on those pending things visible in logs only to moderators with those permissions...)

It will take me some time to work through this. However, I think I missed something major here. It seems this whole deal is available only for mobile? I did go into the Notifications section in my account using Firefox and saw the following (boldface added for "mobile"):

In addition to email, you can receive notifications about events through push notifications on your mobile device and browser.

You currently have no devices enabled to receive notifications.

Note: Notifications are activated per device and browser. To receive notifications on multiple devices, sign in on each device, enable notifications, and make sure you're online.

Desktop notifications are not supported in this browser.

 So in other words, nothing has changed for desktop? I'm about to read the rest of this thread so maybe something will reveal itself in that process.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Web notifications now enabled #update

 

On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 02:41 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
Moderator notifications for pending members and pending messages will now only be sent to moderators with privileges to approve them. Previously these notifications were sent to all moderators. Also, the options to set/change these notifications no longer appear in the Subscription page for moderators without those privileges.
Yay for that. (Now if we could also make actions on those pending things visible in logs only to moderators with those permissions...)

It will take me some time to work through this. However, I think I missed something major here. It seems this whole deal is available only for mobile? I did go into the Notifications section in my account using Firefox and saw the following (boldface added for "mobile"):

In addition to email, you can receive notifications about events through push notifications on your mobile device and browser.

You currently have no devices enabled to receive notifications.

Note: Notifications are activated per device and browser. To receive notifications on multiple devices, sign in on each device, enable notifications, and make sure you're online.

Desktop notifications are not supported in this browser.

 So in other words, nothing has changed for desktop? I'm about to read the rest of this thread so maybe something will reveal itself in that process.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Web notifications now enabled #update

Bruce Bowman
 

Mark -- I'm still confused...or perhaps I should say, more confused than normal. :-)

Although I've just enabled it (Chrome/W10), I'm still not seeing any function by which to receive or retrieve a "web push notification." How is this implemented? Will there be an icon with a number (like FB) to click on, a banner notice, a new filter for the activity log, or ???.

Thanks,
Bruce



moderated Re: Web notifications now enabled #update

 

On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 4:11 PM Andy Wedge <andy_wedge@...> wrote:

can you clarify the relationship between the Mute/Follow hashtag settings and the Web/App notification? If a hashtag is muted, will push notifications still be sent to the browser? Conversely, if Subscription > Advanced Preferences are set to Following Only, are push notifications only sent for followed hashtags and is the First Message Also setting honoured?

The web/app notifications checkbox is completely unrelated to any muting or following setting. One setting does not affect the other.

Thanks,
Mark 


moderated Re: Web notifications now enabled #update

 

On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 3:38 PM Andy Wedge <andy_wedge@...> wrote:

I feel like I must be missing something here.  I logged in with my 'member' account and switched on the notifications for the browser (Chrome for this test) and then in my test subgroup enabled notifications for a hashtag. Then, from my owner account (using Firefox) I sent a message to the test subgroup with the hashtag enabled by my 'member' account.  I receive no notification in the Chrome browser that was still open.  What did I miss?

You've missed nothing, that's apparently a bug. I haven't been able to track it down but I added some more logging to hopefully give me some clues. Can you send another test message?

Thanks,
Mark 


moderated Re: Web notifications now enabled #update

Andy Wedge
 

On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 10:41 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
Please let me know if you see any problems with these new features.
Hi Mark,

when I enabled notifications in my Account using Firefox on my laptop I see this:




But when I login to the same account through Firefox on my mobile, I see this:



The Enable Notifications In This Browser button does nothing and it doesn't seem right to have an Enable and Disable button here.

Regards,
Andy



moderated Re: Web notifications now enabled #update

Andy Wedge
 

On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 10:41 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
Please let me know if you see any problems with these new features.
Hi Mark,

can you clarify the relationship between the Mute/Follow hashtag settings and the Web/App notification? If a hashtag is muted, will push notifications still be sent to the browser? Conversely, if Subscription > Advanced Preferences are set to Following Only, are push notifications only sent for followed hashtags and is the First Message Also setting honoured?

Thanks
Andy


moderated Re: Web notifications now enabled #update

Andy Wedge
 

On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 10:41 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
Please let me know if you see any problems with these new features.
Hi Mark,

I feel like I must be missing something here.  I logged in with my 'member' account and switched on the notifications for the browser (Chrome for this test) and then in my test subgroup enabled notifications for a hashtag. Then, from my owner account (using Firefox) I sent a message to the test subgroup with the hashtag enabled by my 'member' account.  I receive no notification in the Chrome browser that was still open.  What did I miss?

Regards,
Andy


moderated Web notifications now enabled #update

 

Hi All,

I just enabled web push notifications on the website. This is the first part of the notifications overhaul. Here is what is new and/or changed:

  • Web push notifications are now supported for Chrome, Firefox and Opera browsers via a new Notifications tab in the Account section. Safari is not yet supported.
  • You can now specify to have push notifications sent on a per-hashtag basis. Go to the Hashtags page for a group, click the Edit link and then check the Web/App Notifications checkbox.
  • Moderator notifications will now be sent by default via both email and web push notifications, if you have web notifications configured. Moderator notification settings are now dropdowns instead of checkboxes. The dropdown options are: Email and Web/App, Email Only, Web/App Only, and None, with Email and Web/App being the default. If you have something set to Email and Web/App, but don't have web notifications enabled, it will behave as before and just send you notifications via email.
  • Moderator notifications for pending members and pending messages will now only be sent to moderators with privileges to approve them. Previously these notifications were sent to all moderators. Also, the options to set/change these notifications no longer appear in the Subscription page for moderators without those privileges.

For those that have been following the notifications discussions, this is a bit different than my original hashtag notifications proposal, in that the moderator notifications settings have not been eliminated and replaced with hashtags.

There is more work to be done with the notifications overhaul, including adding a whole bunch more notifications and figuring out where those notifications should live. I will continue that discussion in the New notifications proposal topic that Shal most recently responded to last night.

Please let me know if you see any problems with these new features. I've had the moderator web notifications turned on for Beta over the past week, and I've definitely appreciated having them.

Thanks, Mark


moderated Re: Limit number of rows in a database table #suggestion

Nancy Funk <funkmomma71@...>
 

Oh, that would be super helpful. We use databases to register kids for co-op classes and each class has student cap. Outside of having to monitor and "turn-off" a table when a class gets full, we have no way to stop people from going over the cap. 


moderated reason for moderation incorrectly stated in log when group is "moderate first message" #bug

 

Mark,

I nearly included this is the fixed prior bug about MT not taking precedence over the group moderation setting MF, but to be on the safe side, although I suspect this bug got introduced in fixing that one, I'm posting it separately:

When the group is MF and a member is "use group moderation setting," the first message of a new topic is now logged as having been moderated "because the user is moderated" rather than "because this is the first post in a topic."
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Show old and new values in activity log when delivery settings are changed #suggestion

 

Oh, ok. I must not be awake yet. 😊


On Jun 15, 2020, at 7:22 AM, Andy Wedge <andy_wedge@...> wrote:

On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 02:52 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
but doesn't "changed display name" now show the old and new values?
It does, and that was one of the examples I gave to contrast with 'Delivery changed' which doesn't.

Andy

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Show old and new values in activity log when delivery settings are changed #suggestion

Andy Wedge
 

On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 02:52 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
but doesn't "changed display name" now show the old and new values?
It does, and that was one of the examples I gave to contrast with 'Delivery changed' which doesn't.

Andy


moderated Re: Show old and new values in activity log when delivery settings are changed #suggestion

 

Agreed, but doesn't "changed display name" now show the old and new values? I know it didn't use to.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Show old and new values in activity log when delivery settings are changed #suggestion

Andy Wedge
 

Hi Mark,

in the 'Delivery changed' entries on the activity log it just states that it has been changed without showing the old and new values. Log entries for 'Changed email' and 'Changed display name' do show old and new values which from a Moderator oversight and audit trail point of view is much more useful.  Can we show old and new values on 'Delivery changed' please?

Thanks,
Andy


moderated Re: New notifications proposal #misc

 

Hi Mark,

Sorry for the late and lengthy reply.

We've already got this mix of messages and notifications. What that
also means is that the message archive is also the activity feed for
the group, the place where a member can go to see everything that has
happened in the group ...
I may not be the best person to speak to this point, as I primarily keep up with my groups via email. Someone who primarily uses the web pages might have an opinion about whether it is best to see these all in one list, or in separate lists. I always agitate for message filters, so maybe for this too...

I do suspect that having additional notifications mixed into groups' messages section will strongly amplify the call for an ability for a member to see the group's messages with muting/following choices applied. I don't happen to like how that's handled in the home ("Your Groups") pages, I'd prefer it be a remembered filter checkbox in the Messages and Topics pages, but again I might not be the best to speak to this affordance.

For better or worse, this is also how Facebook Groups is structured.
"Non sequitur. Your facts are uncoordinated."
-- Nomad

I think the concept of an activity feed is important for the group,
and if we end up pulling all the notifications out of the message
archive, then I think we would need to create a new activity feed view
somewhere.
I thought that was exactly what was intended. Together with a new home page for Notifications across all of a member's groups, parallel with the Topics pages (but without the need for the All, Muted, and Followed sub-pages). Also, a nit: calling it an "activity feed" instead of Notifications throws a red flag for me, in that overloads with the existing group Activity page under Admin.

As a unified list, it starts to break the names "Messages" and "Topics" for those pages - while the notifications are generally a consequence of some user activity, I've never thought of them as part of the group's ongoing discussion. I've always felt that the calendar and file upload notices be mixed into the group's user messages was kind of a kludge, done that way because we had no other way (tiptoeing around the "because Yahoo did it that way" precedent).

But you make a compelling case that the example we have of calendar reminders and notices (and file uploads) isn't terrible. At least not for calendar events. In fact I have found it useful to have the calendar messages prompt conversations in my groups.

In those cases the posting in the group is not obligatory: the person creating the calendar event decides whether reminders and notices are to be sent, as does the person uploading the file. Maybe that does make sense for new types too. Some files, some photos, some wiki pages, deserve to prompt group discussion, some don't.

I do know, that as a moderator, I want email notification of such things (calendar event creation, file & photo upload, wiki page creation / edit -- the whole gamut of member activity) regardless of whether the person taking the action chooses to announce it to the group.

As an experienced (and content-greedy) member, I'd also want the notifications for file uploads (and the new notifications) regardless of the opinion of the person who took the action. But I don't know how to do that while preserving the "Notify Members" function (specifically the default of not checking that box). Maybe that's an Advanced Preferences subscription option, to see all activity notifications and not just those that were marked "Notify Members".

I've added a new list view to the group hashtag page, and that
preference is remembered automatically.
I like it very much, thank you.

I'm definitely open to suggestions for how to better structure that
page should we go the hashtags-for-notifications route,
Maybe filter checkboxes to select whether Topic hashtags or Notification hashtags are to be selected for display. The default case (neither checked) would display them all. I'd like to move away from the Members list method (drop-list button to select the list filtering).

The hashtags for notifications route doesn't seem too terrible, given some tools mentioned above for controlling them. I haven't thought about how the various hashtag options a group owner can apply might be useful or problematic when applied to notification hashtags. There's a lot of power there, and maybe a few razor-blade edges to put guards on.

Shal
(glad I got back around to this while it is still daylight)


moderated Re: First Message Also #bug

 

On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 11:38 AM, ro-esp wrote:
 It's perfectly possible that over time, there are several threads about the same topic.
There is no deep meaning or debate to be had here."Topic" is used in groups.io to refer to a string of threaded messages and does not have the dictionary definition of "topic." The decision was made long ago to use the term "topic" instead of "thread" and this was just another instance that was missed. It needs to be changed and Mark will surely do that shortly.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

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