Yes seeing your second message now. It moderates every topic the person starts. This is a simple bug with a thirty second fix. Not worth discussion. It does affect anyone else who posts to the topic, of course, but it is definitely not a group option, just as moderating any individual topic is not a group action. Nuf said. Let’s not rehash this feature?

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

Actually, I was the person who requested, and fought for (lol), that feature, so I know exactly what it does, regardless of wording. It is topic-level moderation.

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 09:08 AM, Andy Wedge wrote:

Are you suggesting removing that option from there too?

No; I have never used bcc: me other than as a test, but as you say others might use it. My main point is wondering whether Membership Reject and Ban Member should be in the list of "optional" Notifications or simply be covered by an optional bcc All Moderators.

The group I moderate rarely does either so we don't have any pro forma messages set up for these occasions, not least because I doubt if we find a "one size fits all" wording for either eventuality.

Chris

On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 09:24 AM, Andy Wedge wrote:

"Override: moderate all messages of every topic this person starts"

Having sat at looked at the wording of this option again I can see how 'all messages of every topic' it might be construed to mean that the the topic should be moderated but given that the option itself relates to an individual member that cannot be the case. Moderating a new topic based on the post of a member would then impact other members' ability to post to that topic and I think moderating a topic should be seen as a group level activity rather than one propagated to the group based on a member's settings.

Andy

On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 02:46 AM, J_Catlady wrote:

A member of my group is on "moderate every message of every topic this person starts" but the topics aren't showing the "moderated" icon.

The specific wording of that option is "Override: moderate all messages of every topic this person starts" so it's a message level moderation option rather than a topic level option.

Andy

On Sat, Jun 6, 2020 at 10:28 AM, Chris Jones wrote:

As a moderator I have the option of being notified when anyone joins or leaves a group from the pick list of Notifications. Should the rejection of  an application or the banning of a member also be on the same pick list or should they be at the discretion of whoever does the rejection or banning via the bcc mechanism? Both might be a bit messy and I have no fixed view on which might be better.

Chris, a very good point. If I reject a pending message I get the option to Bcc: my fellow moderator and the message text used appears in the activity log. We do always try to remember to use the Bcc: All Moderators checkbox so we are both kept informed of the other's activities but on rare occasions we have both forgotten to do that. In that instance, I guess a checkbox in our own options to say we want to receive those notices would remove that element of risk

The other option when sending a message is to 'Bcc: Me'. Personally, I don't generally use that kind of option on any platform but I'm sure that some do. Are you suggesting removing that option from there too? I guess leaving it in place would keep some consistency with the 'BCC Me' option when sending a private reply via the web UI. My main concern in raising this is that I don't get a copy of the text used if a pre-defined noitce is used and that given that the text is not recorded in the activity log, and that a pre-defined notice can be changed after a message is sent, I have no audit trail or any way that I can see of working out what message was sent.

Regards,
Andy

Self-explanatory. A member of my group is on "moderate every message of every topic this person starts" but the topics aren't showing the "moderated" icon.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

On the home pages of my groups, the Group Email Address list/block is at the bottom of the page, often "below the fold" and Message History. I suggest this list be moved up to be at the same area/panel as Group Information and Group Settings.

This would be also be helpful for new members who visit the home page to see all the group information in one place.

I note that on the Beta Group, all these group lists/blocks are below the Message History.

Thank you.

On Fri, Jun 5, 2020 at 06:22 PM, Andy Wedge wrote:

However, when performing actions like banning or rejecting a member a message is also sent to the member (if an active notice is defined} but there is no option to Bcc: anyone.

Andy; a very worthwhile observation IMHO. There is, however, another related anomaly lurking in the background!

As a moderator I have the option of being notified when anyone joins or leaves a group from the pick list of Notifications. Should the rejection of  an application or the banning of a member also be on the same pick list or should they be at the discretion of whoever does the rejection or banning via the bcc mechanism? Both might be a bit messy and I have no fixed view on which might be better. I certainly think your suggestion is worthy of inclusion whichever method is considered.

Chris

On Sat, Jun 6, 2020 at 05:05 AM, Mark Fletcher wrote:

NEW: Hashtag list view shows mute/follow duration. Also, redid the mute/follow hashtag screens.

Hi Mark,

I like the new addition on the hashtag list view and the modified mute/follow hashtag screen when arrived at via Groups.io icon in the top left corner.

However, a Mute #hashtag link in an email footer contains a subid parameter and using this I get a different screen where the group name that the Mute applies to is not shown. At the very least it's confusing to have different layouts and if muting via a link in an email footer is supposed to apply to all groups it needs to be clear.

Regards,
Andy

Changes to the site this week:

• CHANGE: Updates to the members/owners manuals from Nina.
• CHANGE: Photo thumbnails, including the single photo view, are now resized to 2048 on their longest dimension, as opposed to 720 previously. The JPEG quality was also decreased to 90. This only applies to photos uploaded from now on. 6/4/20:
• INTERNAL: Re-wrote the program that sent daily summaries to make it much more efficient; the old version would sometimes take more than an hour to complete a run (and is run every hour). This was causing some people to miss summaries, especially those with America/Chicago timezones.
• INTERNAL: Fix issue with the GoAMZ MultiDel() call not working on S3 to remove files and photos when deleting a group.
• NEW: Hashtag list view shows mute/follow duration. Also, redid the mute/follow hashtag screens.
• CHANGE: For new donation requests, we have changed the fee structure: the Groups.io fee is 2%, in addition to Stripe's credit card fees.
• CHANGE: Display the default 'Elephant' group icon on the mobile groups page for groups without an icon set (replacing the group/pie chart icons).
• SYSADMIN: Upgraded the TLS certificates for the *.groups.io domains to use Let's Encrypt certs instead of the older Gandi issued cert, to fix the Safari cert warning.

Take care everyone.

Mark

Hi Shal,

On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 02:12 AM, Shal Farley wrote:

I'd like to maintain a clear semantic and operational distinction between /messages/, which post to the group's archive and are sent to members in accordance to the /Email Delivery/ and /Advanced Preferences /panes of their Subscription settings, and /notices/ which do not appear in the group's archive and are sent to members based on events and other factors (including, for moderators, the /Notifications/ pane of their Subscription).

By those definitions the existing Calendar notifications (#cal-invite, #cal-reminder, and #cal-notice) are actually /messages/.

As are the file upload notifications. We've already got this mix of messages and notifications. What that also means is that the message archive is also the activity feed for the group, the place where a member can go to see everything that has happened in the group (yes, ignoring for the moment notifications that do not yet exist, like wiki updates). For better or worse, this is also how Facebook Groups is structured. I think the concept of an activity feed is important for the group, and if we end up pulling all the notifications out of the message archive, then I think we would need to create a new activity feed view somewhere.

• Calendar invites. They have the hashtag #cal-invite, and the emails are sent to the group. People can mute those, and now they can also turn them into a notification. The invites still get sent to the group and still appear in the archives and people can still reply to them.

So when you say "turn them into a notification" here you mean something different - you mean make them available through the notification viewing system (web/app). Presumably they would also receive them by email unless they muted the associated hashtag.

Yes, that's correct. Muting would just be another form of notification control.

I think it may be annoying/confusing to have the notification controls lost amid the sea of message hashtags. I'd rather have the list of them in one place, one easily read list, with the checkboxes to /Show in Notification/ and /Mute in Email/ as columns to that list (ok, maybe also Duration for Mute). I specifically would not want to have to find and click on a button for each one among the difficult to scan hashtag tiles and go to a confirmation page just to change it, as one currently does for changing the Mute status of a hashtag. Yuck.

I've added a new list view to the group hashtag page, and that preference is remembered automatically. I'm definitely open to suggestions for how to better structure that page should we go the hashtags-for-notifications route, including adding bulk operation controls.

I have tried to think of other ways to do notifications, and I have been unable to come up with anything better or more straightforward. Take #cal-invite messages, for example. If the notification and hashtag muting settings are separate (and in separate areas of the site), you'd end up with some duplicate functionality. If I want nothing to do with #cal-invite messages, I'd have to mute the hashtag, and then I'd also have to go and make sure I'm not receiving any notifications about them.

Also, adding hashtags to existing moderator notifications makes it a little easier to identify which notification is which when changing the notification setting.

I'm definitely open to considering other ideas, but I haven't been able to come up with anything else that feels as straightforward as this.

Please let me know what you think.

Thanks, Mark

On Fri, Jun 5, 2020 at 05:08 PM, "main@beta.groups.io Calendar" <main@beta.groups.io> wrote:

the email delivery database corrupted itself

That's a good trick! :-)
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

Email delivery interruption #downtime

When:
Friday, 5 June 2020
4:01pm to 4:38pm
(UTC-07:00) America/Los Angeles

Description:

During a routine software upgrade, the email delivery database corrupted itself. I had to take the email server off-line in order to restore the database. No email messages were lost.

That was an insanely good move!!! Thank you. You are awesome

Working for me in Houston now. Thanks.

--
Jim

Hi,

I'm raising this as #misc as I'm not sure if it's a bug or not.

When sending a message to a member from the membership list my drop-down Notices field only lists 5 of the 14 messages I have defined.

There is a mixture of active and inactive notices, and not all notice types I have defined are listed. Are there any criteria defined to determine what should appear in the Notices list or not?

Andy

Hi Mark,

As an owner/moderator I get the options to 'Bcc: Me' and 'Bcc: All Moderators' when sending a message to a member from the membership list.  However, when performing actions like banning or rejecting a member a message is also sent to the member (if an active notice is defined} but there is no option to Bcc: anyone. Unlike rejecting a pending message, the message text is not recorded in the Activity log either so there's no proper audit trail. If we can get an option to Bcc: others (and also perhaps record the text in the Activity Log) that would be helpful.

Thanks,
Andy

On Fri, Jun 5, 2020 at 09:15 AM, Chris Jones wrote:

FWIW ISTR that there is a similar gap in the delivery logging if a moderator sends an email to a member from the web UI; the message is logged for the member but not for the copy addressees.

I'll retract that, but the overall situation remains somewhat confusing. I have carried out a number of tests with the following results:

A Rejected Message notification is recorded in the Activity log, but does not appear in the Email Delivery History of either the person whose message was rejected or the moderators to whom it was copied. 

A Message to Member is not recorded in the Activity log but does appear in the Email Delivery History of the member concerned and those of the moderators to whom a copy is sent.

Mark; is there a reason for the different logging methods? While admitting that the time window for any investigation can be limited by only the most recent message to someone being visible, on the face of it it is a bit perverse that the different types of message are logged differently.

Is the support address still only handling queries from paid groups or has it been broadened? Obviously my problem with copies of rejection messages not being sent to me is hardly one for beta; having said that while rejection copies don't appear, copies of Messages to Members do.

Curiouser and curiouser, said Alice...

Chris