Date   

locked Re: Calendar is live

 

Hi Mark!

Calendars are tricky beasts; no doubt there will be bugs. Please let me
know if you find anything or have suggestions.
Didn't receive the reminder I'd set for my 8pm (PST) event in shalstest group. It had two reminders set, 5 minutes and 1 day. I created the event less than one day in advance so I didn't really expect to get the 1 day reminder, but should have received the 5 minute reminder.

Noticed that it is possible to set the end time ahead of the start time. Looks like they automatically get reversed upon save. That may be the best answer, not sure.

-- Shal


locked Re: "Like" for the email-centric (was First Impressions of Groups.io)

Cherrill <cdjamieson@...>
 

 
 
 
 
 
 here we all go ... save it in your animations
Cherrill
 

-------Original Message-------
 
Date: 08/11/2014 2:49:43 PM
Subject: "Like" for the email-centric (was Re: [beta] First Impressions of Groups.io)
 
Ian Gillis wrote:
 
> ("like")
 
Heh.
 
I wonder if there's a way to bring the facile nature of "Like" to email-centric dinosaurs like myself.
 
Perhaps as an email command. Reply to the message but add +like to group's address to 'tick' the Like counter of the original message. I had considered a hashtag for the purpose instead, but I wouldn't want the act of clicking "Like" to generate a message to the group. Using an alternate address makes it clear that this is a special function and not a group posting.
 
Naturally, there could also be a "Like" link in the message footer. But if that's other than a mailto: then there's the issue of how it works for email-only subscribers.
 
On the receiving side members could opt-in to receive email notification when someone "Like"s their message. The like count could be included in daily digests of messages.
 
And if you're considering having a global "activity in your groups" type of daily digest likes could be listed there, I'd certainly sign on for that.
 
-- Shal
 
 
 
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Groups.io Links:
 
You receive all messages sent to this group.
 
Contact Group Owner: beta+owner@groups.io
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
 
 


locked "Like" for the email-centric (was First Impressions of Groups.io)

 

Ian Gillis wrote:

("like")
Heh.

I wonder if there's a way to bring the facile nature of "Like" to email-centric dinosaurs like myself.

Perhaps as an email command. Reply to the message but add +like to group's address to 'tick' the Like counter of the original message. I had considered a hashtag for the purpose instead, but I wouldn't want the act of clicking "Like" to generate a message to the group. Using an alternate address makes it clear that this is a special function and not a group posting.

Naturally, there could also be a "Like" link in the message footer. But if that's other than a mailto: then there's the issue of how it works for email-only subscribers.

On the receiving side members could opt-in to receive email notification when someone "Like"s their message. The like count could be included in daily digests of messages.

And if you're considering having a global "activity in your groups" type of daily digest likes could be listed there, I'd certainly sign on for that.
https://help.yahoo.com/kb/groups/SLN2530.html

-- Shal


locked Re: First Impressions of Groups.io

 


On 8 November 2014 06:32, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:
That's the feedback I've been receiving from others as well, and I believe you're absolutely correct; we need a mobile app.

​ ("like")!​



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locked Re: Calendar is live

 

Hi Mark!

Calendars are tricky beasts; no doubt there will be bugs. Please let me
know if you find anything or have suggestions.
Neither the calendar nor the event editor show me the time zone I'm in. I think at least the calendar ought to. The display of the time zone in the calendar may as well be an affordance (drop list) to adjust it without having to switch to the Profile Edit page and back (that's not saying to remove it from the Profile).

Adjusting the Start time does not cause the End time to adjust by the same amount. That's a common and handy feature.

The rich text formatting tools are absent a color picker.

There is no attachment tool, but then there isn't for messages either.

Because events can generate reminders, and reminders go out as email, the group manager must be able to moderate the events (otherwise the option to allow subscribers to edit events is a means to bypass message moderation). Because the "Moderated" and "New Users Moderated" group settings are described with the generic "posts" it may be adequate to tie the moderation of events to those same controls (including the individual member's posting override, if any). A pending event should not be shown on the calendar to other members, and should not generate any reminders. Approval of the event would implicitly approve any reminders it generates.

-- Shal


locked Re: about messages from non-members

Judy F.
 

Thanks Mark, would you explain about the bi and monthly notices going away when the calendar is active.  Will the notices then be sent from the calendar entry?  If yes, our notices that go out to the group monthly, etc. are long how will that work. 

 

While I’m thinking about it, will we still be able to send messages to the group and include or not include Special Notice members?

 

Thanks so much,

 

Judy F.

SW Florida - USA

 

From: Mark Fletcher [mailto:markf@corp.groups.io]
Sent: Friday, November 07, 2014 10:20 AM
To: beta@groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] about messages from non-members

 

Hi Judy,

 

On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 10:59 PM, J. Faulkner <jfaulkner44@...> wrote:

 

Also, I can’t remember reading where groups.io would be having automated messages that would go out at various times, such as when someone joins, when someone is approve, leaves group, etc..  That’s how the potential members of the buying group get the message requesting the required information.

 

Those are called Member Notices. To access them, go to the Settings page for your group. The bi-weekly and monthly notices are going away when the calendar launches, btw.

 

 

Mark


locked Re: First Impressions of Groups.io

 

On Fri, Nov 7, 2014 at 1:15 PM, Ian Gillis <tessel.bas@...> wrote:

Even I, a prime dinosaur, have been infected; last weekend I was at an engineers' reunion and wanted to post a "look what I'm doing" note to the engineering group. I only had my iPhone; with FB it's a couple of taps - I wouldn't even countenance attempting to post a photo to the Yahoo group.

In my view a group must have a mobile version or it will die. More and more people possess only mobile phones or tablets. IMHO you will have to cater for them with an iOS and Android app.


That's the feedback I've been receiving from others as well, and I believe you're absolutely correct; we need a mobile app.


Mark


locked Re: First Impressions of Groups.io

 


On 7 November 2014 16:22, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:
You're not the first person who's said their FB group gets significantly more traffic than their Yahoo Group. I'm trying to understand the reasons why that seems to be the general case. Is it just a function of FB having massive traffic?

​Hi Mark,​
 

​No - a private FB group gets only group traffic, so a small group is a quiet backwater.
 
Or do their groups have a set of features or are set up in a particular way that encourages this?
 

​Yes.

The group I mentioned that has both FB and Yahoo versions has a wide demography​ - I've got a few dinosaurs who write impeccable English and rather more youngsters with limited vocabularies. Both wish to communicate - the dinosaurs think that Zuckerberg is the devil incarnate, the youngsters wish they could write like the dinosaurs but prefer short comments and pictures posted from their mobile (cell) phones, would be embarrassed to attempt any sort of prose and are thus easily seduced by FB.

Even I, a prime dinosaur, have been infected; last weekend I was at an engineers' reunion and wanted to post a "look what I'm doing" note to the engineering group. I only had my iPhone; with FB it's a couple of taps - I wouldn't even countenance attempting to post a photo to the Yahoo group.

In my view a group must have a mobile version or it will die. More and more people possess only mobile phones or tablets. IMHO you will have to cater for them with an iOS and Android app.

​regards,
Ian​




--


locked Re: Calendar is live

 

Mark,

And I really wanted to avoid having a second, group timezone, because
I think that'd be totally confusing.
I think the experience with Yahoo Groups' calendar proves you right on that. Of course they failed every opportunity to explain it clearly, so there was likely more confusion than needed be.

Event reminders are not added to the archive. They're treated as
notifications, like when moderators are notified of pending messages.
Reminders didn't feel like the type of message that should be in the
archives. Plus you have the varying timezone issue, as you pointed
out. Do you think they should be added to the archives?
I do. Or if not actually in the archives, then prominently displayed somehow when a member looks at the archive.

One of the common use cases in Yahoo Groups are members that elect to have no email delivery, who read the group's archives instead. They've been clamoring for Yahoo to track which messages they've read and be able to show them "new" messages, just as many forums do, but that's a whole other issue.

Also, I don't send out a message when an event is created. Should I
add that feature?
That could be a sort of a special case of a reminder, one with "now" as its set time. I haven't looked yet to see how your reminders are set up, but if the user can set up more than one or two of them perhaps "now" could be just another choice. In any case, I'd make it optional.

-- Shal


locked Re: Roadmap

 

Thanks Shal. I must do some research to find out what the rules are, and then
try to adjust the hit counters on my site accordingly.

Jim

On 6 Nov 2014 at 19:10, Shal Farley wrote:

Jim,

Would the count be confined to "real" hits, or would it include visits
by search engine spiders?
Ideally "real" hits, I would think.

Is there any way to distinguish them?
Beyond my knowledge. As I understand it there are rules spiders are supposed to
follow, but perhaps not all do.

-- Shal
--
http://www.jimella.me.uk - my personal web site covering many subjects
http://jimellame.tumblr.com - My thoughts on freedom
http://jimella.wordpress.com - political snippets, especially economic policy
http://jimella.livejournal.com - misc. snippets, some political, some not
Forget Google! I search with https://duckduckgo.com which doesn't spy on you


locked Re: Calendar is live

 

Hi Shal,

On Fri, Nov 7, 2014 at 11:36 AM, Shal Farley <shal@...> wrote:
Mark,

> When calendar events are created, we store the timezone of the person
> creating the event as the event's timezone.

That's an excellent default, but in a geographically dispersed group the member creating the calendar event may not be at the location of the physical event - such users may need a way to specify the event's timezone independent of their own.


The way I thought about it was that the most important timezone is the one that a given user is in, and I should always try to show them dates and times in their own timezone. If they're going to a physical event, it seems like they'd be in the timezone for that event anyways. And I really wanted to avoid having a second, group timezone, because I think that'd be totally confusing. Actually, I didn't want a user timezone either, I wanted it all to be automatic, but I think this is an ok compromise.

 
> Every event reminder email is customized to the particular
> subscriber's timezone.

Wow. I'm not sure how many unique time-zone jurisdictions there are (many more than 24 I know) so that's a lot of custom engraving on the outbound reminders. And what happens to the reminder in the archive? Use the event's time zone?

Event reminders are not added to the archive. They're treated as notifications, like when moderators are notified of pending messages. Reminders didn't feel like the type of message that should be in the archives. Plus you have the varying timezone issue, as you pointed out. Do you think they should be added to the archives?

Also, I don't send out a message when an event is created. Should I add that feature?


And then I suppose there are hybrid events: where one might attend physically or via telecommunications. Meh. I guess as long as the text of the reminder message says what time zone was used to express the time then one can always figure it out.

Reminders do include the timezone that the dates are in.

Thanks!
Mark 


locked Re: Calendar is live

 

Mark,

When calendar events are created, we store the timezone of the person
creating the event as the event's timezone.
That's an excellent default, but in a geographically dispersed group the member creating the calendar event may not be at the location of the physical event - such users may need a way to specify the event's timezone independent of their own.

Every event reminder email is customized to the particular
subscriber's timezone.
Wow. I'm not sure how many unique time-zone jurisdictions there are (many more than 24 I know) so that's a lot of custom engraving on the outbound reminders. And what happens to the reminder in the archive? Use the event's time zone?

I had been thinking about whether that would be a good idea or not. The problem I see is there are two distinct use cases. One kind of event happens everywhere at once (a conference call, a webinar, a comet touchdown) and so for those having the date/time adjusted to each member's local time makes sense. And in this day and age you may not be wrong to assume that most events discussed in an email list will be of this type.

The other kind of event is tied to a place (a concert, a seminar, a flash mob) where the members are supposed to be in physical attendance. For those one would not expect the event reminder to be adjusted - just as one's airline ticket always shows your departure and arrival times in the local time of the relevant airport -- you will be there, then, in that local time.

And then I suppose there are hybrid events: where one might attend physically or via telecommunications. Meh. I guess as long as the text of the reminder message says what time zone was used to express the time then one can always figure it out.

--Shal


locked Re: about messages from non-members

Laurence Taylor
 

On 07/11/2014 06:51, J. Faulkner wrote:
Laurence, sorry for the delay in replying to your concern in #3.

There is no special software that is used. Yahoo Groups has a Photos
option where photos are put in albums. On the buyer group that I
moderate, we create a set of albums each month with various sewing
type categories and all of the members that are selling items can
post photos of their item the applicable album. Each photo must have
required information on each one. In order to do this in Yahoo
Groups, you have to load the photo in the album and then click on
Edit and the two lines will appear and the seller fills it in and
does a save.

Sellers are not allowed to attach photos in their ad. If there is a
photo, they state what album it is in.
I follow now, thanks.



--
rgds
LAurence


locked Re: Is it better for the home screen to be group details or an archive of previous messages?

David P. Dillard
 

It is my opinion that Groups.IO is the best alternative to Yahoo Groups that I am aware of and I have seen a number of other group services. If your Yahoo Group has an archive, I recommend keeping your Yahoo Group so that your group's posting history remains intact.



Sincerely,
David Dillard
Temple University
(215) 204 - 4584
jwne@...

On Fri, 7 Nov 2014, Frances wrote:

I have a private family only group so the setting is "archives are visible to subscribers only". That's the way I want it because the group is
restricted to approved members only. I understand that many people want to market their groups, but mine would be mostly invitation-only.  We
have a Yahoo Group and plan to move over to Groups.io


locked Re: Calendar is live

 

Nerdy technical information here:

Forgot to mention how timezones are handled. Timezones only matter for displaying the calendar and for reminders. Every user has a timezone setting now, in their profile. We auto detect what timezone a user's browser is in when they register or when they login, and automatically set their timezone if it isn't already set. When calendar events are created, we store the timezone of the person creating the event as the event's timezone. There is no group timezone.

So, if we're emailing a calendar reminder to someone who's timezone we don't know (because they registered through email, haven't logged into the site since we rolled out the calendar, etc), we use the event's timezone to figure out a time to show in the reminder. Every event reminder email is customized to the particular subscriber's timezone.


Mark

On Fri, Nov 7, 2014 at 10:10 AM, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:
Hi All,

I pushed the calendar to the live site. The default for every group is that moderators/owners can edit the calendar and members can view it. You can change this in Settings.

Calendars are tricky beasts; no doubt there will be bugs. Please let me know if you find anything or have suggestions. I'll announce it on updates some time next week.

Thanks!
Mark


locked Calendar is live

 

Hi All,

I pushed the calendar to the live site. The default for every group is that moderators/owners can edit the calendar and members can view it. You can change this in Settings.

Calendars are tricky beasts; no doubt there will be bugs. Please let me know if you find anything or have suggestions. I'll announce it on updates some time next week.

Thanks!
Mark


locked Re: First Impressions of Groups.io

 

Ian,

On Fri, Nov 7, 2014 at 2:42 AM, Ian Gillis <tessel.bas@...> wrote:

Good. I've got a Yahoo group for which I created a parallel Facebook Group. My intention was for people to tinker with FB to see if they liked it. The FB group now gets much more traffic and has attracted twice the membership. One reason is that the few "generators of information" are encouraged by the "like" feedback - they know that their efforts have not been in vain. Whereas they could generate​ an enormously useful post on Yahoo but become totally discouraged by the feeling that no-one had read or appreciated it.

You're not the first person who's said their FB group gets significantly more traffic than their Yahoo Group. I'm trying to understand the reasons why that seems to be the general case. Is it just a function of FB having massive traffic? Or do their groups have a set of features or are set up in a particular way that encourages this? I think you're right that Likes improve usage, for example.

Thanks,
Mark 


locked Re: about messages from non-members

 

Hi Judy,

On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 10:59 PM, J. Faulkner <jfaulkner44@...> wrote:


Also, I can’t remember reading where groups.io would be having automated messages that would go out at various times, such as when someone joins, when someone is approve, leaves group, etc..  That’s how the potential members of the buying group get the message requesting the required information.

 

Those are called Member Notices. To access them, go to the Settings page for your group. The bi-weekly and monthly notices are going away when the calendar launches, btw.


Mark


locked Re: Is it better for the home screen to be group details or an archive of previous messages?

Frances
 

I have a private family only group so the setting is "archives are visible to subscribers only". That's the way I want it because the group is restricted to approved members only. I understand that many people want to market their groups, but mine would be mostly invitation-only.  We have a Yahoo Group and plan to move over to Groups.io


locked Re: First Impressions of Groups.io

 


On 6 November 2014 23:30, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:
I'd definitely 'like' (yuck yuck) to add likes as well. I forgot to include that in the roadmap.



Hi Mark,

Good. I've got a Yahoo group for which I created a parallel Facebook Group. My intention was for people to tinker with FB to see if they liked it. The FB group now gets much more traffic and has attracted twice the membership. One reason is that the few "generators of information" are encouraged by the "like" feedback - they know that their efforts have not been in vain. Whereas they could generate​ an enormously useful post on Yahoo but become totally discouraged by the feeling that no-one had read or appreciated it.

An allied reason is that not everyone is totally proficient in the use of the words; some far prefer to make a one-word comment or tick a "like" button than embark on a piece of deathless prose…

regards,
Ian



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