On 3/5/2020 10:16, Mark Fletcher wrote:

Happy to change the label to something else if we can agree on something better.

Thanks,
Mark 

My suggestion would be for two columns: date uploaded and date modified. The first is invariant and never changes, the second changes on re-upload, moves, permission changes, etc.

Best,

Glenn

I am not seeing any opposition to this suggestion.

Best,

Glenn

On Tue, Mar 10, 2020 at 05:42 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:

I think this probably makes the most sense in a 'principle of least surprise' kind of way...

Least possible surprise to whom? I suspect many (most?) Owners & Moderators would be highly surprised if members can somehow circumvent "moderator - only" capabilities.

Chris

On Tue, Mar 10, 2020 at 05:50 AM, Jeremy H wrote:

Something I have found is that sometimes what I would have hoped to have been auto-saved hasn't been

I've found that a draft is always auto-saved, but the timing varies.  There are times when my internet connection gets a bit flaky or disappears, for whatever reason, so what's saved may be a few minutes old.  (Actually, that the internet works as well as it does is somewhat mind boggling. ;>)  There always seems to be enough for me to continue my train of thought though.  Not much GIO can do about that except possibly notify me when the save is done, to be used as a reference point.  The same situation could exist even if I could force a save.

Duane

I totally agree, Chris.
It's like  fixing a non  problem
If anything, Autosave of Drafts should be in (both?) Users'  and Moderators'/Owners' Guides

--

Bob Bellizzi

On Tue, Mar 10, 2020 at 05:42 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:

I have changed the policy so that if a message has been approved, we allow the use of mod-only and special hashtags, even if the message was originally sent from a non-moderator.

Thanks. That's a big help for us as my co-owner and I want certain messages written by others on our club Committee to go as special messages.

Andy

On Tue, Mar 10, 2020 at 09:50 AM, Andy Wedge wrote:

I have a hashtag called #Announcement defined with attributes: Special, Locked and Use by Mods only.  When I tag a message with this hashtag it is not sent as a special message.

What happened was the following:

• You sent the message from a non-moderator account, without that hashtag. It required approved because your group is restricted.
• When you approved the message, you added the #Announcement tag.
• But because the message was originally sent from a non-moderator account, we ignored the special flag when the message was approved.

I have changed the policy so that if a message has been approved, we allow the use of mod-only and special hashtags, even if the message was originally sent from a non-moderator. I think this probably makes the most sense in a 'principle of least surprise' kind of way, but I'm happy to consider rolling it back if the group disagrees.

Thanks, Mark

Hi Mark,

I have a hashtag called #Announcement defined with attributes: Special, Locked and Use by Mods only.  When I tag a message with this hashtag it is not sent as a special message. The subject does not get prefixed with [Special] and there is a Mute #Announcement link in the message footer (I thought special messages could not be muted).

Regards,
Andy

On Tue, Mar 10, 2020 at 09:42 AM, Andy Wedge wrote:

If I search for harr I get a number results that include the names Harris and Harrison but I also get a member with the surname Cherry where the string harr is neither in the name nor email address.

It appears that repeating characters are getting collapsed/ignored. Search on harrrrrr and you'll get the same results. I have an email into the consultants to see if they can shed some light on this.

Thanks, Mark

Hi Mark,

I've noticed that when I search the member list for my group (I am the owner) I get incorrect details returned and the implied use of the * wildcard is inconsistent between different searches.

If I search for harr I get a number results that include the names Harris and Harrison but I also get a member with the surname Cherry where the string harr is neither in the name nor email address. The fact that the search returns Harris and Harrison shows that there must be an implied wildcard search taking place.

However, when I search for fret I get no search results and I have to search for fret* in order to find a member with the surname Fretwell which indicates that no implied wildcard search is taking place.

I can provide additional search strings where I'm seeing this kind of behaviour if needed.

Thanks,
Andy

On Tue, Mar 10, 2020 at 10:50 AM, Jeremy H wrote:

Hope this makes sense to people

Sorry, but not to me it doesn't; it just looks like a whole load of complexity for complexity's sake.

Much like Bill H mentioned in his earlier post The only way I learned about it was by accident. Having learned about it, Drafts are now something I can handle as and when required without a load of prompts, buttons and so on... rather like the 10001 (and counting) other things I do on a daily basis on non - IT subjects. For example I find that I can leave the house and lock up without prompts, and get into the car and set off "ditto".

Chris

Something I have found is that sometimes what I would have hoped to have been auto-saved hasn't been - either an auto-save has not been done, or what has been auto-saved has been overwritten (for some reason or another...). Or that I just find/access it. So I would welcome the ability to manually (deliberately) save a draft, by clicking button.

So perhaps this should be a cue for a larger review of drafts, and how/when they are saved, accessed and (eventually) deleted.

My thoughts as a starter:

Normal flow:
Start composing message (new/reply)
'Current' version auto saved as draft periodically, or on navigating away from page. Should these by the same? Should multiple generations be kept?
When message is sent, auto-saved drafts are deleted.

Resumed flow: 
Go back to compose.
Latest auto-saved version is restored, to be completed...
Then as normal flow.

'Manually saved' draft:
Click 'save' button - draft saved. This would also be the 'latest' draft (until another auto-save is done), for the 'resumed' flow case above.
But that resumed flow should not automatically delete the manually saved draft, if has been automatically loaded.
If composition of the message continues (after manual saving), autosaving will not overwrite the manually saved version, and eventual sending will delete autosaved, but not the manually saved version.
Subsequent manual saving should not just overwrite the original manually saved version.
Possibly there should be an option on sending or manually saving to delete (or not) old manually saved drafts?

There should (somewhere) be a menu listing saved drafts - including, at the end (?) any auto-saved draft(s) with options to
i) delete draft
ii) resume composing the draft - with the ability (somehow, and documented, if not by separate options) to resume the draft, or keep it (long term) as a 'model'

Hope this makes sense to people - just my four bits worth.

Jeremy

How about, if the user stops typing for five seconds, and a draft is saved of the text to date, the words "Draft has been saved" appear somewhere, probably in gray. The message would stay visible until the user starts typing again, which would cause it to instantly disappear, until the user takes another break and a draft is once again saved.

JohnF

Being a gmail user for way too many years I am used to drafts being automatically saved. 
However I have also learned that if something is important enough that I don’t want to lose something it goes into a text file or a note temporarily to ensure I don’t lose my work.
I sometimes feel that people expect to be babysat online instead of taking personal responsibility for their work. 

Patti

>> Neither am I. It has saved me a few times. As i started my original post, it's more for peace of mind.

>> It would be better to emphasize the auto draft save.

> You have a point. The only way I learned about it was by accident.

Several packages I use prompt you 'Do you want to keep a draft' when you exit without sending. It makes you aware it is keeping a draft.

Noel

On Sun, Mar 8, 2020 at 02:57 PM, Bruce Bowman wrote:

*No, I am NOT advocating to elimination of the existing draft auto-save.

Neither am I. It has saved me a few times. As i started my original post, it's more for peace of mind.

It would be better to emphasize the auto draft save.

You have a point. The only way I learned about it was by accident.
I just checked this wiki, the official Help and GMF wiki for "draft"
The best description is found on Message Drafts. Not sure how to make it more visible as it is linked to from home page of GMF wiki.
There is also another brief mention on Starting a new thread or sending a message on a new topic

On Sun, Mar 8, 2020 at 01:04 AM, Bill Hazel wrote:

Having a Save Draft button would have spared me a bit of anxiety.

If I understand correctly, the proposal is to add a button that does nothing but pop up a dialog box that says "Draft saved" (or something to that effect).

Unlike Bob, I'm not strongly opposed to the idea, but I do suspect we're just trading one problem for another, to wit:  an increased number of people who wonder how they managed to save a draft when they didn't click on the button.*

Regards,
Bruce

*No, I am NOT advocating to elimination of the existing draft auto-save.

I strongly disagree that we need a Save Draft button
I started this reply and then went to another group without a worry about saving this draft

I just came back from browsing around and this draft was saved in my Drafts for Bets.

Why do we need a Save Draft Button when the save is automatic?

It would be better to emphasize the auto draft save.
--

Bob Bellizzi

Mark,

In the FAQ section of the Help page there is a list of the Email Commands. It strongly implies is that all one need do is send the command for the action to take place:
https://groups.io/static/help#what-are-the-available-email-commands

For most (all but +help and +owner) one must also receive and reply to a confirmation message sent by Groups.io in response to the command. Not knowing this, many members miss that confirmation request and believe that the command is broken. This is most often reported with the +unsubscribe command.

The description in help, and in the upcoming manual for Members, should include this important fact.

Sample wording:
-----
Using these commands is a two-step process:
1. Send the command from your email address,
2. Receive and reply to Groups.io's Confirmation request email.
The command will not take effect until you complete the second step.
-----
cf: http://yahoogroupedia.pbworks.com/Using-Email-Commands

The manual could have more complete wording, including an explanation about why the confirmation step is necessary.

Shal

This is more for peace of mind than anything else.
It would be nice to have a Save Draft button at the bottom of the page.

I started going through the Almost completed version of the Owners and Moderators manual and after I noticed the 2nd thing to comment on - on the same page I'd just commented on - I decided rather than clog up the docs@beta.groups.io Messages every time I found something to comment on I'd just create a New Topic and document them as I came to them. On page 18 (28 of the PDF), my brain was fried and so I decided to save my work rather than post.

No "Save" button ?!?!?!
I had learned from past experience that a draft is saved when I (accidentally) left a message I hadn't posted but over an hour's work?
Anyway, i selected all, copied it then, with great trepidation, I clicked on Messages and uttered a sigh of relief, I had a draft. I opened it and it was right where I left off.

Having a Save Draft button would have spared me a bit of anxiety.

Bill