Date   

moderated Re: Almost completed version of the Owners and Moderators manual #misc

Glenn Glazer
 

On 3/6/2020 15:01, Mark Fletcher wrote:
Hi All,
 
Our tireless and fearless tech writer Nina has mostly completed the Owners and Moderators manual and it is ready for review. I have uploaded a PDF of it to the Files section of the https://beta.groups.io/g/docs subgroup. If you have time and the inclination, I would appreciate it if you could join the docs subgroup, download the manual, and provide feedback. Feedback should be posted to the docs subgroup, not here. The only section that needs to be filled in are the steps around setting up a donation request, and that's because I haven't gotten the information to Nina yet.
 
Once the manual is finalized, it will added as a section to the Groups.io website in HTML as well as in a downloadable PDF format.
 
Nina is now working on a separate manual for members.
 
Thanks,
Mark

I have the inclination (and even the skill, I used to work as a proofreader), but before I can tell you if I have the time, can you give me an idea of how long it is?

Best,

Glenn

--
PG&E Delenda Est

Virus-free. www.avast.com


moderated Almost completed version of the Owners and Moderators manual #misc

 

Hi All,
 
Our tireless and fearless tech writer Nina has mostly completed the Owners and Moderators manual and it is ready for review. I have uploaded a PDF of it to the Files section of the https://beta.groups.io/g/docs subgroup. If you have time and the inclination, I would appreciate it if you could join the docs subgroup, download the manual, and provide feedback. Feedback should be posted to the docs subgroup, not here. The only section that needs to be filled in are the steps around setting up a donation request, and that's because I haven't gotten the information to Nina yet.
 
Once the manual is finalized, it will added as a section to the Groups.io website in HTML as well as in a downloadable PDF format.
 
Nina is now working on a separate manual for members.
 
Thanks,
Mark


moderated Re: Profile Privacy #suggestion

 

Peter,


Is there a case for the default settting to 'Other Members of your Group' ?

I think there's a conflict between that idea and the fact that one's group profile defaults to the content of one's Account Profile. When you join a new group you might inadvertently expose things you would have changed had you had a chance to review the content of your profile in the new group before exposing it to the other members.


We are always encouraging our Members to select to show their details to other group members.  Not easy as some are not particularly computer literate and can't / won't do this

That's a particularly uphill battle for members who prefer to be "email only" and are reluctant to log into the site. I'm not sure there's anything to be done for them other than continued encouragement.

Members who do visit the group's pages could perhaps be given a reminder of some kind. But I wouldn't want it to be a constant nag - it would need an easy way to turn it off. Perhaps just visiting the Group Profile page could do that.

Shal


moderated Re: Move Default Sub Settings onto Main Settings Page #suggestion

 

Michael,


PLUS the Default Sub Setting's default should be that of the group's creator as the logical place to start from (not California's).

I like this idea, where the default account settings (time zone and display) are concerned.

prompt Groups.io accounts (email address) to set (or verify) their time zone before they join each group,
and if that group is set for a different time zone, have them choose which time zone they want for that group.

Each user has a single time zone setting (in their account), not one per group membership. I think expanding this to one per group would be too confusing for the users.

Maybe the user could be alerted to the fact that the group's Default Sub Setting for time zone differs from his/hers. A banner on their Subscription page perhaps, with a link to their Account Preferences?

But that wouldn't affect users that are Direct Added, or who accept an Invitation by email, or who +subscribe by email - until or unless they visit their Subscription page for that group.

Shal


moderated Re: Profile Privacy #suggestion

Duane
 

On Thu, Mar 5, 2020 at 12:14 PM, Peter Rawbone wrote:
Is there a case for the default settting to 'Other Members of your Group' ?
If so, I would want it be a group setting option.

Duane


moderated Re: Move Default Sub Settings onto Main Settings Page #suggestion

 

Bruce wrote:


Many creators of new groups fail to fill out the Default Sub Settings. ...
To head that off, I suggest that Default Sub Settings be moved to its own block within the main group Settings page...

I think that would lead to more trouble and confusion, both because it would make the Settings page even longer and because it would be mixing to conceptually different types of controls. I don't think defaults for member subscription settings belong mixed in with group settings.

It would be better, I think, to find a way to draw the new group owner's attention to the Default Sub Settings tab.

Perhaps a new group could have a green banner at the top of (each tab of) the Settings page with Settings, Default Sub Settings, Cover Photo, and Member Notices listed as bullet points under a heading reminding the user to review each tab (but not Export Group Data, and I'm really unclear on the Member Sync tab that seems to come and go). As the Update (or whatever) button is used in each tab that bullet item would be removed, until all four are removed and the banner itself goes away. In the banner, each bullet point could have a short phrase or sentence to indicate what that tab is all about.

 
... or if not all of it, at least those portions that relate to time and date.

I like this better. Those settings are arguably misplaced among the new member subscription defaults, as they initialize new user accounts instead. This does cause some confusion. Some new group owners do not have a firm understanding of the distinction between a member's subscription to (membership in) their group versus that member's account at Groups.io.

The settings don't really belong among the group settings either, but at least there are fewer of them so they wouldn't overload that tab so badly.

Shal


moderated Re: Move Default Sub Settings onto Main Settings Page #suggestion

Michael Pavan
 

On Mar 4, 2020, at 8:32 PM, Bruce Bowman <@BruceBowman> wrote:

Many creators of new groups fail to fill out the Default Sub Settings. Later, when they discover that all their current subscribers are on the "wrong" time zone (or whatever), they find themselves needing to retroactively (and painstakingly) fix this setting for everybody, one by one.

To head that off, I suggest that Default Sub Settings be moved to its own block within the main group Settings page...or if not all of it, at least those portions that relate to time and date.
Agree.

PLUS the Default Sub Setting's default should be that of the group's creator as the logical place to start from (not California's).
Many/most groups are all in their creator's time zone, and most creators would likely prefer their members begin with those settings.
Of course, some groups are in more than one time zone (and outlier members will have to adjust theirs).


BETTER YET,
prompt Groups.io accounts (email address) to set (or verify) their time zone before they join each group,
and if that group is set for a different time zone, have them choose which time zone they want for that group.


moderated Re: Move Default Sub Settings onto Main Settings Page #suggestion

Ann Wild
 

Bruce, i totally support your suggestion. But there does not appear to be a way for an owner to change the time setting "one by one," as you suggested.  I tried and couldn't do it.  If I could make individual changes, I would be willing, though it would take a great amount of time.  Duane says each member has to make their own individual change. How unfortunate that I initially missed that setting!


moderated Re: Profile Privacy #suggestion

Andy Wedge
 

On Thu, Mar 5, 2020 at 06:14 PM, Peter Rawbone wrote:
Is there a case for the default settting to 'Other Members of your Group' ? 
I wish that were the case for the group I run as I spend some time explaining to people on our restricted membership group how to make themselves visible in it. For more general and open groups though such as GMF and Beta where initial group profile details may be copied from the account profile, I think a warning prompt showing the information that would be visible to other members upon joining (with an option to change those details and settings) would be good if they were subscribing online. For members who subscribe by email though, it would complicate the process.

Andy


moderated Re: Move date #bug

Glenn Glazer
 

On 3/5/2020 10:16, Mark Fletcher wrote:
Happy to change the label to something else if we can agree on something better.

Thanks,
Mark 

My suggestion would be for two columns: date uploaded and date modified. The first is invariant and never changes, the second changes on re-upload, moves, permission changes, etc.

Best,

Glenn

--
PG&E Delenda Est

Virus-free. www.avast.com


moderated Re: Move date #bug

 

On Thu, Mar 5, 2020 at 10:13 AM Glenn Glazer <glenn.glazer@...> wrote:
I think I've spotted a bug. When a file is moved from one directory to another, the date uploaded changes. I realize this is probably the mtime of the underlying file, but that's not what date uploaded means to me.

Not a bug, in that it's doing exactly what it was coded to do. (also not the mtime of the underlying file).

 
So, preferably, I would see the original date and time of upload preserved, but alternatively change the label if that's not possible.

Happy to change the label to something else if we can agree on something better.

Thanks,
Mark 


moderated Profile Privacy #suggestion

Peter Rawbone
 

We are always encouraging our Members to select to show their details to other group members.  Not easy as some are not particularly computer literate and can't / won't do this.
Is there a case for the default settting to 'Other Members of your Group' ?  I certainly think so.
Regards
--
Peter

[Mod note: Added #suggestion hashtag]


moderated Move date #bug

Glenn Glazer
 

I think I've spotted a bug. When a file is moved from one directory to another, the date uploaded changes. I realize this is probably the mtime of the underlying file, but that's not what date uploaded means to me.

So, preferably, I would see the original date and time of upload preserved, but alternatively change the label if that's not possible.

Best,

Glenn

--
PG&E Delenda Est
 


moderated Re: Default database view #done #suggestion

Peter Rawbone
 

Oddly, it now functions on all pages, thank goodness.

--
Peter


moderated Re: Problem with Time Change for Digest #bug

Duane
 

On Wed, Mar 4, 2020 at 04:34 PM, Ann Wild wrote:
Is there anything I can do to make the 6 AM digest come out at 6 AM EST for all our group members?
There's nothing you can do for the others except have them sign in and go to https://groups.io/account?page=prefs to change their timezone to EST (before the time change on Sunday ;>).

Duane


moderated Move Default Sub Settings onto Main Settings Page #suggestion

Bruce Bowman
 

Many creators of new groups fail to fill out the Default Sub Settings. Later, when they discover that all their current subscribers are on the "wrong" time zone (or whatever), they find themselves needing to retroactively (and painstakingly) fix this setting for everybody, one by one.

To head that off, I suggest that Default Sub Settings be moved to its own block within the main group Settings page...or if not all of it, at least those portions that relate to time and date.

Thanks for your consideration.

Bruce


moderated Re: Problem with Time Change for Digest #bug

Ann Wild
 

Mark, I just changed the timezone to EST for my own account and for the Default Sub Settings for the group, but the latter only applies to new users.  Is there no way to reset the timezone for the group?  I, unfortunately, missed changing PST to EST in the Default Sub Settings when I set up the group.  The real issue is this: Is there anything I can do to make the 6 AM digest come out at 6 AM EST for all our group members? Thanks.


moderated Re: Problem with Time Change for Digest #bug

 

On Wed, Mar 4, 2020 at 11:47 AM Ann Wild via Groups.Io <annlwild=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
In a recent change, Mark wrote, "Now, we force a digest to be created at 6AM local time for each subscriber, based on their timezone...."  That, however, is not happening for us in the EST time zone.  The last three digests we have gotten have been time-stamped after 9 AM EST, which appears they were sent out on PST time, not EST local time. 

Please check to make sure that your timezone is set to EST. You can do that through the Preferences page in your Account.
 

Prior to the change, the digest that was sent out at 10:30 PST would be time-stamped for us around 3:40 AM EST, which was 5, not 3, hours ahead. I never figured that out given that individual messages are always posted intermediately.
_._,_._,_
It was arriving around 3:40 AM EST because the process that forced digest generation was taking hours to complete (it started at 10:30PM PST). Switching to this new system, along with a bunch of optimizations I did means that digests should go out pretty close to on the hour that they're forced.

Thanks,
Mark 


moderated Problem with Time Change for Digest #bug

Ann Wild
 

In a recent change, Mark wrote, "Now, we force a digest to be created at 6AM local time for each subscriber, based on their timezone...."  That, however, is not happening for us in the EST time zone.  The last three digests we have gotten have been time-stamped after 9 AM EST, which appears they were sent out on PST time, not EST local time. 
 
Our group has a lot of early risers and posters, so the new later digest after 9 AM EST is a problem.  If it were to arrive close to 6 AM, as I thought it would based on Mark's change, that would fine.  But that's not happening, and we are getting fewer messages.
 
Prior to the change, the digest that was sent out at 10:30 PST would be time-stamped for us around 3:40 AM EST, which was 5, not 3, hours ahead. I never figured that out given that individual messages are always posted intermediately.


moderated Storage usage colors #suggestion

Duane
 

I'd like to see the Help page updated to show which colors will represent the various amounts of storage used, maybe a short color bar beside the item name (or even surround the name with the color, like a hashtag).  [I realize that if not much space is used for a specific item that it may not show on the group's Usage/Upgrade/Billing page in the bar.]  I've been able to figure out some, but a couple aren't being used on my groups:

Files - Dark Green
Photos - Dark Blue
Images in databases - ???
Images in wiki pages - ???
Message attachments - Light Blue

Thanks,
Duane