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moderated Re: Add Charter Rules to Wiki #meta

Mark Fletcher
 

Hi All,

I've set the group guidelines to be sent to all new members. I've also set the topic where I announced the new charter to be sticky.

Thanks,
Mark
moderated Re: Add Charter Rules to Wiki #meta

JediPirx
 

On Fri, Feb 14, 2020 at 05:43 PM, J_Catlady wrote :

I agree also. But it's already in the Guidelines page.
Oops for me too. I did not see the Guidelines entry in the
left-hand side menu.

My reason for starting the topic was that I had some confusion
(senior moment ?) about the Charter and I was looking for the
summary in the Wiki which I could not find because it was not
there.


Fri, 14 Feb 2020 13:47:36, J_Catlady wrote :

Unfortunately I have to say "I disagree" with the vast majority
(or at least a whole lot) of this. I don't know where it's coming
from.
In reviewing the postings on the Charter, I compiled ad verbatim,
what I felt were key points from the various emails to assist in
documenting the Charter. It was a rough draft.

In the postings, there were comments on etiquette and "proposal vs
suggestion" which did not seem to have a conclusion.

Based on the responses, etiquette is policed as required, and
proposals/ideas/topic could/should be discussed in GMF before
a suggestion is submitted on [beta].


Fri, Feb 14, 2020 at 03:39 PM, Duane wrote:

I do agree that there should be an easy place for others,
especially newcomers, to find the mandate(s) for the group.
A sticky, either post or wiki page, would seem to be the most
noticeable.
I agree :-)


I appreciate everyone's response. I am amenable to closing this
topic.

Stan/jp
moderated Re: "Publicly Listed Groups" page displays groups, then says they don't exist #bug #fixed

Mark Fletcher
 

Hi All,

This should be fixed now.

Thanks,
Mark
moderated Re: "Publicly Listed Groups" page displays groups, then says they don't exist #bug #fixed

J_Catlady
 

Mark,

Here's another one besides the two I sent you privately:
Roundup / DID YOU SPRAY ROUNDUP BEFORE BEING DIAGNOSED WITH NON-HODGKIN'S LYMPHOMA OR LEUKEMIA? IF SO, YOU ARE ENTITLED TO SIGNIFICANT COMPENSATION - GLOBAL SETTLEMENT SOON! Roundup is a carcinogen which has been proven to cause cancer so you deserve to be compensated if you were affected by this!
Created: 10/21/19
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu
moderated Re: "Publicly Listed Groups" page displays groups, then says they don't exist #bug #fixed

J_Catlady
 

Oops, meant to send that to Mark offlist. People are PM'ing me up the wazoo (well, two people;) and saying they also saw the bug. 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu
moderated Re: "Publicly Listed Groups" page displays groups, then says they don't exist #bug #fixed

J_Catlady
 

Looks like yet another person PM'd me:
'I have also seen this, and have a horrible feeling it’s been around for a while"
Not sure why all of these people are not replying onlist. But the bug def exists.


On Mon, Feb 17, 2020 at 12:22 PM Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:
On Mon, Feb 17, 2020 at 11:20 AM J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:
It seems the "Publicly Listed Groups" page is either not being updated or is incorrect to start with. It is showing some groups that, when clicked on, return "that group does not exist."


That shouldn't be. Examples?

Thanks,
Mark 


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu
moderated Re: "Publicly Listed Groups" page displays groups, then says they don't exist #bug #fixed

Mark Fletcher
 

On Mon, Feb 17, 2020 at 11:20 AM J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:
It seems the "Publicly Listed Groups" page is either not being updated or is incorrect to start with. It is showing some groups that, when clicked on, return "that group does not exist."


That shouldn't be. Examples?

Thanks,
Mark 
moderated "Publicly Listed Groups" page displays groups, then says they don't exist #bug #fixed

J_Catlady
 

It seems the "Publicly Listed Groups" page is either not being updated or is incorrect to start with. It is showing some groups that, when clicked on, return "that group does not exist."
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu
moderated Re: log activity when someone responds to a poll #suggestion

Bill Hazel
 

Getting back to the original question: Could we be notified if someone responded to a poll?
I don't care if all it says that someone responded. I would just like to know someone responded to a poll. I can look at the poll to see the information I'm looking for.
moderated Photo ownership when member changes email address #bug

Duane
 

I was contacted by a member when he couldn't get into a personal album he had created.  I dug around a bit and found that he had changed his email address in September.  (He retained the Display Name he had chosen about a year before that.)  I had to manually assign ownership of the album and each photo, so all is well for now.

Thanks,
Duane
moderated Discussions about GMF are off-topic #admin

Mark Fletcher
 

Once again, I remind you that discussions about GMF and other groups are off-topic for beta. 
 
Mark
moderated Re: Restrict "Set Moderator Privileges" Permission #suggestion #done

Chris Jones
 

On Sun, Feb 16, 2020 at 08:21 PM, Glenn Glazer wrote:
Wow, I did not get any of that at all from Chris' email.
Thank you. :)

I will not dignify #24226 by responding to it.

Chris
moderated Re: Restrict "Set Moderator Privileges" Permission #suggestion #done

Mark Fletcher
 

Hi All,

I've made the following changes:

- Moderators can no longer change the roles of owners.
- Moderators can no longer change the subscription settings of owners.
- The `/updatemember` API call now returns new errors if you attempt one of the above things.

Please let me know if you have any questions or see anything amiss.

Thanks,
Mark
moderated Re: Restrict "Set Moderator Privileges" Permission #suggestion #done

Glenn Glazer
 

Wow, I did not get any of that at all from Chris' email.  Discussing how GMF works is objectively off-topic for beta, which is to discuss features for groups.io.

Best,

Glenn

On 2/16/2020 12:14, txercoupemuseum.org wrote:
“...wildly off - topic for beta”.  Ahhh, the not-so-hidden sneer of the superior to the inferior.  The polite way to remind someone to not forget their “place" in the overall scheme of things and demand “rights” to speak as necessary to the intended purpose.

When the “guardians” within GMF act as advocates or so as discourage empirical discussion, who guards the guardians”? Only [beta] and Groups.io can intervene when and if that becomes necessary.  Do we, mere owners, REALLY need ask for that to be a [beta] hashtag?  If so, consider that done right now by me.

We are reminded again and again that GMF is “peer to peer” and not part of Groups.io.  It doesn’t always exhibit that “floor and feel”.  “Position posts” by a moderator or founder are not inherently more credible.

No one has proposed moderators are not necessary.  They need to remember their function is that of police, not judges.  They should NOT intimidate verbally nor act with conspicuous bias.  In “peer to peer” debate they should leave their “official function and uniform” at the door and come in as intellectually naked as the rest of us.  ;<)

Best!

WRB

— 
 
On Feb 16, 2020, at 1:23 PM, Chris Jones via Groups.Io <chrisjones12@...> wrote:

On Sun, Feb 16, 2020 at 06:37 PM, Charles Roberts wrote:
The GMF is supposed to be a place for Owners to go to seek help.  <snip>  Supposed to be Owners helping Owners, but rarely is a question answered by someone other than a "Moderator".
Although this is wildly off - topic for beta one reason is that many Group Owners on GMF only go there to pose a question and look at the responses; they don't go there to try to help others and generally see what is going on. They are only interested in their own problems and not anyone else's.

Take away the moderators and see what happens...

Chris



--
PG&E Delenda Est
moderated Re: Restrict "Set Moderator Privileges" Permission #suggestion #done

txercoupemuseum.org
 

“...wildly off - topic for beta”.  Ahhh, the not-so-hidden sneer of the superior to the inferior.  The polite way to remind someone to not forget their “place" in the overall scheme of things and demand “rights” to speak as necessary to the intended purpose.

When the “guardians” within GMF act as advocates or so as discourage empirical discussion, who guards the guardians”? Only [beta] and Groups.io can intervene when and if that becomes necessary.  Do we, mere owners, REALLY need ask for that to be a [beta] hashtag?  If so, consider that done right now by me.

We are reminded again and again that GMF is “peer to peer” and not part of Groups.io.  It doesn’t always exhibit that “floor and feel”.  “Position posts” by a moderator or founder are not inherently more credible.

No one has proposed moderators are not necessary.  They need to remember their function is that of police, not judges.  They should NOT intimidate verbally nor act with conspicuous bias.  In “peer to peer” debate they should leave their “official function and uniform” at the door and come in as intellectually naked as the rest of us.  ;<)

Best!

WRB

— 
 

On Feb 16, 2020, at 1:23 PM, Chris Jones via Groups.Io <chrisjones12@...> wrote:

On Sun, Feb 16, 2020 at 06:37 PM, Charles Roberts wrote:
The GMF is supposed to be a place for Owners to go to seek help.  <snip>  Supposed to be Owners helping Owners, but rarely is a question answered by someone other than a "Moderator".
Although this is wildly off - topic for beta one reason is that many Group Owners on GMF only go there to pose a question and look at the responses; they don't go there to try to help others and generally see what is going on. They are only interested in their own problems and not anyone else's.

Take away the moderators and see what happens...

Chris
_._,_._,_
moderated Re: Restrict "Set Moderator Privileges" Permission #suggestion #done

Glenn Glazer
 

On 2/16/2020 11:57, Chris Jones via Groups.Io wrote:
On Sun, Feb 16, 2020 at 07:52 PM, Glenn Glazer wrote:
I generally agree with what Chris is saying here, <snip> For me, personally, do I believe that GMF is a bit too strongly moderated?
Ah; a misunderstanding. I was responding to the comment that it was only moderators who answer questions on GMF. I said take away the moderators, not take away the moderation! In other words if the moderators didn't answer the questions then many questions would be either unanswered or perhaps answered incompletely or even incorrectly.

Chris

Gotcha.

Best,

Glenn

--
PG&E Delenda Est
moderated Re: Restrict "Set Moderator Privileges" Permission #suggestion #done

J_Catlady
 

On Sun, Feb 16, 2020 at 11:57 AM, Chris Jones wrote:
I said take away the moderators, not take away the moderation! In other words if the moderators didn't answer the questions then many questions would be either unanswered or perhaps answered incompletely or even incorrectly.
I think that's because mostly, the people in GMF rather than beta are not as knowledgeable about the product (pretty much by definition - they are sent to GMF rather than beta to ask their basic help questions). So they simply don't have the capability to answer others' questions. It's not that they are ungenerous. And while it's true that most of the moderators in GMF are more knowledgeable than most of the rank-and-file members, they don't need to be moderators, or to moderate (in whatever "moderation style" GMF has decided on), to be knowledgeable. It's their knowledge and familiarity with groups.io, rather than the fact that they are moderators, that you would not want to take away.  
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu
moderated Re: Restrict "Set Moderator Privileges" Permission #suggestion #done

Chris Jones
 

On Sun, Feb 16, 2020 at 07:52 PM, Glenn Glazer wrote:
I generally agree with what Chris is saying here, <snip> For me, personally, do I believe that GMF is a bit too strongly moderated?
Ah; a misunderstanding. I was responding to the comment that it was only moderators who answer questions on GMF. I said take away the moderators, not take away the moderation! In other words if the moderators didn't answer the questions then many questions would be either unanswered or perhaps answered incompletely or even incorrectly.

Chris
moderated Re: Restrict "Set Moderator Privileges" Permission #suggestion #done

Glenn Glazer
 

On 2/16/2020 11:23, Chris Jones via Groups.Io wrote:
On Sun, Feb 16, 2020 at 06:37 PM, Charles Roberts wrote:
The GMF is supposed to be a place for Owners to go to seek help.  <snip>  Supposed to be Owners helping Owners, but rarely is a question answered by someone other than a "Moderator".
Although this is wildly off - topic for beta one reason is that many Group Owners on GMF only go there to pose a question and look at the responses; they don't go there to try to help others and generally see what is going on. They are only interested in their own problems and not anyone else's.

Take away the moderators and see what happens...

Chris

I generally agree with what Chris is saying here, but I will add that moderation is stylistic, just like anything else. I very strongly suspect that all of us in our own groups moderate differently than others, there is no One True Way. Moderation styles run from literally no moderation, anything goes to rather draconic approaches and a spectrum between them. In part, it depends on the group's needs and culture as it evolves and also on the personal tastes of the moderators. Welcome to the human condition.

For me, personally, do I believe that GMF is a bit too strongly moderated? Yes. But I don't complain about it because a) the right answer is, "Well, start your own group then." and I don't want to take that on and b) because I recognize the really good (and mostly thankless) work that Shal, Duane and others do, so I'm willing to put up with their style because I evaluate people holistically, not just on whatever burr happens to rub me the wrong way.

Best,

Glenn

--
PG&E Delenda Est
moderated Re: Restrict "Set Moderator Privileges" Permission #suggestion #done

Chris Jones
 

On Sun, Feb 16, 2020 at 06:37 PM, Charles Roberts wrote:
The GMF is supposed to be a place for Owners to go to seek help.  <snip>  Supposed to be Owners helping Owners, but rarely is a question answered by someone other than a "Moderator".
Although this is wildly off - topic for beta one reason is that many Group Owners on GMF only go there to pose a question and look at the responses; they don't go there to try to help others and generally see what is going on. They are only interested in their own problems and not anyone else's.

Take away the moderators and see what happens...

Chris
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