Date   

moderated Re: Banned not in Banned list #bug

 

Hi All,

I just fixed an issue with banning by entering an email address (as opposed to selecting a member from the Members list and banning them using the Actions menu). Now, banning by entering an email address behaves the same way as the other banning: we keep their member notes, messages to moderators, join date, etc. Previously we did not.

I was unable to reproduce the issue of banning someone and them not appearing in the banned list. If that happens to you again, please contact me off-list with the following info: name of list, email address of person you tried to ban, and how you tried (entering their email address by hand, or by selecting them from the Members page).

Finally, I think a change should be made. Right now, when you enter an email address by hand to ban, we do not send out the Banned member notice. This is even the case when the person you are banning is a member of the group. I propose that, when you enter an email address by hand to ban, and that person is a member of the group, that the Banned member notice is sent out. This would mimic the behavior of banning someone by selecting them from the Members list.

Thanks, Mark


moderated Re: Banned not in Banned list #bug

 

On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 08:03 AM, Leeni wrote:
Another problem I just had
Yes, essentially the same problem. They won't show up, you ban them again, and then suddenly they show up, and with some inexplicable date.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Banned not in Banned list #bug

Leeni
 

Another problem I just had was it took me 3 tries to get the member I was trying to ban to show up on the ban list.
 
 
 
 

-------Original Message-------
 
From: J_Catlady
Date: 1/24/2020 9:55:43 AM
Subject: Re: [beta] Banned not in Banned list #bug
 
That bug goes along with this thread and is not the only problem related to banning:
https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/23899
"In addition, sometimes a banned member is described as "banned" in the Past Members list but does not even appear in the Banned list."
The date field in the banned list is also not the date they were banned, the Notes page is missing from the member record in the Banned list, and other problems.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

 


moderated Re: Banned not in Banned list #bug

 

That bug goes along with this thread and is not the only problem related to banning:
https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/23899
"In addition, sometimes a banned member is described as "banned" in the Past Members list but does not even appear in the Banned list."
The date field in the banned list is also not the date they were banned, the Notes page is missing from the member record in the Banned list, and other problems.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Banned not in Banned list #bug

Duane
 

I don't have the Past Members on my free group, but the ones I banned yesterday for the AOL weirdness are not showing in the banned list on one group (they are on another.)  The action does show in the Activity log.  I was double checking to make sure I hadn't banned a real member.

Duane


moderated Re: Enlarge the vertical size of the "Your Groups" pull-down menu #suggestion

Duane
 

On Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 11:55 AM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
there is scrolling that much of it can be avoided if the menu's vertical size/height was bigger.
On my tablet, in landscape, it fills most of the screen, so I wouldn't want it any taller.  I believe the current ~15 lines is a compromise that accounts for most, if not all, possible devices.

Duane


moderated Re: Strange display issue with uploading CDR extension files into FILES #bug

Bruce Bowman
 

On Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 09:47 PM, Christos G. Psarras wrote:
When trying to upload files into the FILES section, I'm not sure if the uploader code is not aware of this file extension so it doesn't know what mime/type/graphic icon to use, but for CDR (Corel Draw) files, it displays the actual filename as shown below.
There are multiple file types that do this. I'd prefer that the file uploader not attempt to render any thumbnail images, and simply list the files.

Bruce


moderated Strange AOL attack? #misc

Duane
 

There seem to be a lot of new and/or pending members with AOL addresses that follow a pattern, NameNamexxx, coming from someone in NJ at IP 104.xxx.xxx.xxx.  This seems to have started about the 17th.  They never answer Pending notices and never post.  The only thing I can think of is they may be trying to harvest addresses, but it seems like a lot of work for that.  Mark may want to take a look at his logs to see if he can figure out what it is.  (I've changed all my groups to Restricted for the time being, after banning 4 of those accounts.)

I'm only posting this here so that Mark will be aware of it.  The full discussion is at https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum/topic/70052673

Duane


moderated Strange display issue with uploading CDR extension files into FILES #bug

 

When trying to upload files into the FILES section, I'm not sure if the uploader code is not aware of this file extension so it doesn't know what mime/type/graphic icon to use, but for CDR (Corel Draw) files, it displays the actual filename as shown below.

Cheers,
Christos


moderated Re: Process to propose new features #meta

 

On Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 01:55 PM, Bob Bellizzi wrote:
I want to climb on Catlady's bandwagon a bit further.
I don't know what you're talking about lol. I don't see anything in your message that agrees with what I've said previously. What I've said is that I am very leery of (and would personally avoid, if it happens) having all the suggestions I make go through a group of amateur volunteers for "vetting," as was suggested by soeone. But I have nothing against someone - volunteer or otherwise - maintaining a simple tracking system. 

As for apologies, I also apologize for saying that I don't want to pay to whitewash Mark's fence. That was inappropriate and I've already told him so in an offlist message. I just don't know what we're talking about here any more.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Process to propose new features #meta

Bob Bellizzi
 

First, I want to apologize for my inappropriate last message which I've deleted.

I want to climb on Catlady's bandwagon a bit further.
Tracking items in Beta, once we have a system to work with, is not a technical job.
A clerical person with a bit of training and minimum of process notes/diagrams
could easily  handle that part of the job.
The job could be a part time consultant and Mark need only spend a couple of hours training them to do it.,
In fact, a nontechnical person would be ideal; we wouldn't be able to browbeat them; they're just doing their job.
I've found it pretty easy to train 16 year olds to use a database.  My current problem is a paucity of them in my neighborhood.
All that's needed is a simple but expandable system where the results are available to the carnivores of Beta to see.

--

Bob Bellizzi


moderated Re: Process to propose new features #meta

 

On Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 07:51 AM, Marv Waschke wrote:
I would strictly limit the suggestion analysis board to vetting suggestions from the beta group and prohibit the board from making suggestions themselves
The problem is that in order not to be a deal-breaker (for me at least), the board would have to be carefully chosen by Mark to consist of people highly familiar with the product with at least some (preferably professional) technical experience. And forbidding such people from making suggestions would not make much sense.

IMO if would be better for an actual company employee, or employees, to be put in charge of vetting suggestions. But I don't know if any exist yet.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Process to propose new features #meta

Marv Waschke
 

Mark-- If your goal is to induce some order on the suggestion process, i.e. consolidate duplicate or similar ideas, reduce the number of suggestions that have been hashed through in the past, and generally vet suggestions before you look at them, I suggest that you appoint a volunteer board to review the contents  of this group, beta, and create a list of processed suggestions. Let beta remain the free-for-all that it is, but assign some volunteers to do the preliminary work of preparing proposals to enter your work queue. I would strictly limit the suggestion analysis board to vetting suggestions from the beta group and prohibit the board from making suggestions themselves to avoid abuse of the boards privileged position.

A suggestion analysis board could work in different ways. One way would be a group or a beta subgroup moderated by the board and only board members could post. Suggestions would still be posted to the beta group, but the suggestion tag would become a flag that the suggestion board needs to scrutinize the post and consider it in their group. Then periodically, the board would post a vetted suggestion list, similar to your weekly change list, to the beta group.

You, Mark, would remain the ultimate arbiter of what gets done, and discussion in beta would not change, but you would have the benefit of the work done by the suggestion analysis board. I would keep the deliberations of  the suggestion board public, although I would expect it to be pretty boring because it would not be a forum for new ideas, just sorting out the beta discussions.

BTW, just to be clear, I'm not interested in a position on such a board, but I would not be surprised if you had a few volunteers, based on the great work done by the thankless moderators of the Group Management Forum.
Best, Marv


moderated Short and long descriptions for hashtags #suggestion

Samuel Murrayy
 

Hello

Following on:
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum/topic/70041142

At this time, hashtags have a "description", but it is really meant to be just a single line of text, i.e. a short description.

I suggest that hashtags be given both a short description (the current "description" field) and a long description. The long description would be visible on the hashtag's own page. The long description should be able to contain formatting, images and hyperlinking.

When the current hashtag descriptions are viewed on the home page or on the hashtag page, there isn't much room, but if you view a hashtag's own page, there is more room.

This may not benefit all groups, but groups where hashtags are used more deliberately may benefit from this ability. Examples of long hashtag description may be to explain when the hashtag should be used, or to show back-ground information about the issue that the hashtag applies to.

Samuel


moderated A 554 Bounce code not recognized as bouncing on first occurrence #bug #fixed

John Pearce <jponsalt@...>
 

I had read about how groups.io processes bouncing in the wiki and I had also asked about this on the GMF forum.  What I found is that a 554.30 mail box disabled is not seen as a hard bounce and will not trigger groups.io to process the member as bouncing.  My problem is, members who are on special notices only in our group only get one email per month.  It bounces but it isn't enough to trigger the bounce status in the member list as it does not satisfy the 4 continuous days (or bounces) of bouncing.  So these types will build up in the list forever.  Apparently if a account is closed that would trigger bouncing after the first "hard" bounce.  But if an account is disabled it's not for 4 days or bounces.  See cut and paste from a guy who just came on bounce status today.  This guy did take 5 occurrences to show up and was placed on bounce status.  However had he been on special notice it would never happen.  We moved over to groups.io with the automated method you provide in Oct/Nov.  We had 1500 members in Yahoo on nomail, most had been members a decade or more.  I knew many were no longer valid and before the move I disallowed nomail so all those people were put on special so that they would show up as bouncing and I could eliminate them.  Many bounced as accounts do not exist and I removed them but many I saw looking at samples of the email delivery history had disabled boxes and were not put in bounce status.  So I went through all 1500 one at a time and when I found the 554.30 I removed the member.  It's now down to 900 members on special only and all are with yahoo email addresses.  I'm told on GMF that a 500 level error should trigger after one bounce.  So I opened this issues with a bug hashtag.  I do realize there could be reasons why this is not a bug but the specter of having to periodically go through that many members once a year or so to clean things up compelled me to open this and hope for the best.  Thank You

John P

Message
Digest #48
Delivered
Jan 17
Response
ok dirdel
Most Recent Unsuccessful Attempt
No email deliveries
Recent Bounces
When Message Reason
2:59am Digest #53 mta7.am0.yahoodns.net: 554 delivery error: dd Sorry, your message to bautista_2010@... cannot be delivered. This mailbox is disabled (554.30). - mta4266.mail.bf1.yahoo.com
Jan 21 Bounce probe mta6.am0.yahoodns.net: 554 delivery error: dd Sorry, your message to bautista_2010@... cannot be delivered. This mailbox is disabled (554.30). - mta4018.mail.gq1.yahoo.com
Jan 20 Digest #52 mta7.am0.yahoodns.net: 554 delivery error: dd Sorry, your message to bautista_2010@... cannot be delivered. This mailbox is disabled (554.30). - mta4362.mail.bf1.yahoo.com
Jan 20 Digest #51 mta7.am0.yahoodns.net: 554 delivery error: dd Sorry, your message to bautista_2010@... cannot be delivered. This mailbox is disabled (554.30). - mta4080.mail.bf1.yahoo.com
Jan 19 Digest #50 mta7.am0.yahoodns.net: 554 delivery error: dd Sorry, your message to bautista_2010@... cannot be delivered. This mailbox is disabled (554.30). - mta4312.mail.gq1.yahoo.com
Jan 18 Digest #49 mta6.am0.yahoodns.net: 554 delivery error: dd Sorry, your message to bautista_2010@... cannot be delivered. This mailbox is disabled (554.30). - mta4463.mail.bf1.yahoo.com


moderated Re: Enlarge the vertical size of the "Your Groups" pull-down menu #suggestion

dave w
 

hi
Last modified a year ago?
At that time it was a variable width (and when an idiot creates a group name 30 words long, so was the window... ;/ ) while the vertical height drop down dropped below the window pane entirely... which Mark changed to the current condition.
So using a laptop for two decades I'm restricted in height (as will be many others) - therefore any further change needs to be dynamic scrolling, not back to the click on first then hand/ arrow scroll all the way to bottom of groups. Otherwise, go... cheers
dave
PS -The like isnt mine!


moderated Re: Process to propose new features #meta

Duane
 

On Wed, Jan 22, 2020 at 04:08 PM, Jim Fisher wrote:
Doesn't GMF already deal with discussion of proposals, including, but not
confined to, proposals for facilities that already exist?
Yes, we do.  While the stated intent of the group is to improve the management of groups, we often kick things around to get a more solid idea of what is really wanted as a site tool.  Some folks ask about bugs they've found, only to find out that it's a misunderstanding on their part.  Other times it's about not understanding how to do the same thing here that was done on another site.  I believe that several of the recent suggestions made here and on Canny were more complete from having discussed them.

While there aren't as many members (yet?), the Group_Help group also tries to assist with these things.  I'm a member of both and do what I can to help.

Duane


moderated Re: Process to propose new features #meta

 

Doesn't GMF already deal with discussion of proposals, including, but not
confined to, proposals for facilities that already exist? I've certainly used
it in that way at least once, and I know others have also.

Jim Fisher

On 21 Jan 2020 at 10:27, Mark Fletcher wrote:

Hi All,

Ken in https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/23853 mentioned something I've been
thinking about. Right now, proposing a #suggestion is a free-for-all. Duplicate
suggestions appear often. Previously discarded suggestions come back up, etc
etc. It would help me if we could establish some kind of process around it, a
way to help people vet their ideas before they are officially proposed. It would
not be my goal to put up roadblocks or otherwise intimidate newbies from sharing
their ideas; the opposite actually. I want to increase the quality of
suggestions.

It seems it would be good for there to be a way to 'discuss' a proposed
suggestion before it actually becomes a suggestion. Which means that the
suggestion process involves two steps, the #proposal and the #suggestion. I can
see two ways of doing the #proposal:

- Create a new, unmoderated subgroup to discuss proposals.
- Add a new feature to hashtags that would work as follows:
- The topic is set so that no one follows it.
- Replying to the message automatically sets you to follow the topic.
- You would be able to manually follow the topic as well if you wish.

In either case, once a consensus is reached (and only then), submit a
#suggestion, referencing the proposal topic. If there's no interest in the
#proposal, it doesn't become a #suggestion.

Ideally, I would not have to moderate (or spend much time involved with) the
#proposal process. I think we all want me focused on actually getting stuff
implemented. :-)

Thoughts?

Thanks,
Mark
--
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moderated Re: Coordinate banning w removal #suggestion

 

On Wed, Jan 22, 2020 at 10:59 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
The results are inconsistent with the intended functionality,
You could call it a bug, but it's in that zombie zone between feature and bug, since this has been an ongoing evolution (e.g., banning did not used to remove the member, now it does; display has been changing; banned record used to include history and past record not; now past record contains notes and banned does not; etc). It's more an issue of making the records match in the ways that matter (i.e., what's displayed), what date to display in the banned members page, etc.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Enabled/disabled button status inconsistency bug at the Drafts management screen #bug

 

Contrary to how buttons work in other similar list management areas, when one is at the Drafts management screen, the "Delete" button is always enabled, even if no draft on the list is checked, resulting in a rather nonsensical message.

Cheers,
Christos

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