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moderated Re: Process to propose new features #meta

 

On Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 04:50 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
this idea.
Referring to Simon's idea.
 
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J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Process to propose new features #meta

 

I love this idea.
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J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Process to propose new features #meta

Simon Hedges
 

I'd like to suggest that it's done the other way around, with Beta as the more open freer group where "proposals" can be discussed. Then if Mark endorses them he create a post in a subgroup for "suggestions" (though maybe "candidates" might be an alternative), where people can look if they want to see what's potentially going to be adopted. That's like to result (in the "suggestions" group) a better formed, appropriately tagged and managed, list of potential changes.

Simon

-----Original Message-----
From: main@beta.groups.io <main@beta.groups.io> On Behalf Of JohnF via Groups.Io
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2020 11:43 PM
To: main@beta.groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] Process to propose new features #meta

The proposal process seems too complicated to me. If I want to make a simple suggestion like, "I think the background color should change to orange on Halloween," I don't want to have to go through a proposal phase for it.


moderated Re: Coordinate banning w removal #suggestion

 

In addition, sometimes a banned member is described as "banned" in the Past Members list but does not even appear in the Banned list. And on top of that, the date field in the Banned list now shows some date that seems to have no connection with anything that I can see. It is certainly not the banned date. (Mark, if you start on this at some point in the future, let me know and I can send you some details offlist, if they're still findable by then.) By far the worst right now is that the Notes page is always now blank in the Banned list and has to be copied over from the same member from the Past Members list. 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Process to propose new features #meta

 

The proposal process seems too complicated to me. If I want to make a simple suggestion like, "I think the background color should change to orange on Halloween," I don't want to have to go through a proposal phase for it.

Mo's suggestion is good. If you say something like, "I'd like to improve the database feature. Here are some outstanding suggestions that are already on the list of things to do. Which of these are most important, and can you think of any others that would be especially helpful?" that might improve the suggestion quality for that area for a little while.

If you really want to organize things, a form with dropdown fields for the individual features combined with an automatic search for similar issues as part of a suggestion process would be helpful, but that would be work to implement in itself.

JohnF


moderated Re: Subgroup staging state and scheduled start date/time #suggestion

ro-esp
 

"something like "this group will start functioning februari 30th, 18.45 UTC"

Nice idea, but why limit it to SUBgroups?

groetjes, Ronaldo


moderated Re: Italian reply to message by email uses preface RES, not "Re," creating new topic #bug

 

Oops, looks like it's Portuguese, not Italian. 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Italian reply to message by email uses preface RES, not "Re," creating new topic #bug

 

I'm not sure what kind of bug this is, but it seems that at least in the one case attached here, a reply via email by someone in Italy attached the preface "RES", instead of "Re:," which caused lack of threading and creation of a new topic. 
https://groups.io/g/FeralCats/topic/res_feralcats_goat_s/69964908?p=,,,100,0,0,0::recentpostdate%2Fsticky,,,100,2,0,69964908

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Online reply remembers original, not adjusted subject text if a hashtag was removed #bug

 

Yes and there's some similar funkiness with merging and splitting. The titles are not kept in synch. Noticed this a long time ago, but since I no longer merge or split, including rarely changing a topic title, it has not bothered me for awhile.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: New Group Charter #admin

Christos G. Psarras
 

Hi Mark,

I just went through Canny and posted a bunch of #suggestions to beta (I temporarily turned the #suggestion hashtag to No Email when I did so to avoid spamming the list).

I noticed that two of the new topics (69961750, 69961762) you copy-created over from Canny have duplicate threads already existing in beta.  (I know because I'm the perpetrator of both the original beta threads and Canny requests for the two topics)

Since there is some more info in those original threads (at least on one of them), should I go and add a message reply with a reference link to the original thread for those two dupes?  Or at least for the one with additional detail info?

Cheers,
Christos


moderated Re: Process to propose new features #meta

 

On Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 11:10 AM, Mo wrote:
Maybe instead of a free for all we concentrate on one area of the system at a time.
It's not a terrible idea, but I don't think Mark would necessarily get the best product from that. The features he's thinking about at any given time are unlikely the ones where people have a great idea that just happens to pop into their head. And people (we) are unlikely to save up feature ideas for the time when Mark happens to be asking about that area of the product.

I think thinks were going along just fine with the new hashtags, as long as someone (i.e., Mark or a designee) is keeping track of the suggestions. I think ultimately that's the problem and what's causing the chaotic free-for-all. Nobody was keeping track. I was thinking along the lines of refining the situation, possibly with further hashtags to let members keep track of what's *not* done or fixed, but keeping the same structure. 

I assume that bugs are tracked somewhere officially in groups.io, for example. Is there not, or could there not be, a method for tracking feature suggestions as well? Of course it would require human input. It can't just chug along by itself.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Process to propose new features #meta

Bill Hazel
 

Mo,
I think this is a good suggestion.
Perhaps one way to solicit suggestions for a specific features would be for Mark to create a message asking for input on that subject, example:
"Looking for suggestions for wikipage editing #suggestion" 

Then he could make it "sticky" so it would be at the top of the message list.
He could add as many as he wanted, 2 or 3 maybe, adding one per week and leave it there for 3 weeks so they would cycle.

There could also be a wikipage created, and maybe made sticky, that would record all the #suggestion messages by subject.
That way the first thing a visitor sees are the suggestions made and those requested.

Mark, or another Moderator could manage the page, merging posts as required.

How could Mark decide which topics to post?
A poll maybe? He and the other Moderators could get together and come up with a list of 20 possible subjects,
The purpose and "Rules" specified in the Question portion could explain the process so the poll respondents would understand what the goal is.
As the top answer gets moved to a sticky post, the Poll could be updated to include new choices, perhaps based on the spurious requests that come in.

Perhaps one of the choices would be to either explain how to restore a wikipage revision or add a "Restore the version" button 


moderated Online reply remembers original, not adjusted subject text if a hashtag was removed #bug

Christos G. Psarras
 

Greetings,

Short version:

Here's a glitch, in short, at least in beta, when one replies through the online interface to an existing message which had its original subject altered by removing a #hashtag, the online Reply function will remember the original subject and include the deleted hashtag.

 

Long version:

This happened on beta today when I wanted to add my latest update to this thread, originally posted before you did your hashtag reorg:

https://beta.groups.io/g/main/topic/69924762

The original subject was "Re: Following a new topic sends out catch-up emails with missing group [Subject Tag] #bug #SubjectTag", and you removed the #SubjectTag hashtag from the original subject.


When I tried to reply to either one of those two existing posts, clicking reply brought up the original subject with the #SubjectTag in it.  Tested a bit more, both from my normal account and a different test account, and it will only do it on either of those original posts, NOT (of course) on my latest update message in that thread, as I manually made sure to remove that hashtag so it matches your change (and topic displayed).

 

Cheers,

Christos

 


moderated Re: hashtag "done" for suggestions, analogous to "fixed" for bugs #meta #done

Gerald Boutin <groupsio@...>
 

On Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 03:27 PM, Gerald Boutin wrote:
Mark,

The list of hashtags seems to be smaller than it was previously. Were #misc and #fixed and perhaps others deleted intentionally?

#misc I am OK with losing as it is the same as no hashtag.

--
Gerald
Sorry, my bad. They are still there. I missed the "More" feature.
 
--
Gerald


moderated Re: hashtag "done" for suggestions, analogous to "fixed" for bugs #meta #done

Gerald Boutin <groupsio@...>
 

Mark,

The list of hashtags seems to be smaller than it was previously. Were #misc and #fixed and perhaps others deleted intentionally?

#misc I am OK with losing as it is the same as no hashtag.

--
Gerald


moderated Re: Process to propose new features #meta

Mo
 

I have a different idea. 

Mark what is your vision for groups.io or are you at the stage of needing input for new tech? 

Maybe instead of a free for all we concentrate on one area of the system at a time. 

What areas do you have the least technical debt that could be improved first?

What areas of technical debt do you plan on working on?

What areas are you unhappy about or have limited functionality. 

Take ideas, then go from there. 




On Tue, 21 Jan 2020 at 18:58, J_Catlady
<j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:
On Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 10:30 AM, Nick Dunmur wrote:
we have working groups in our organisation to facilitate exactly this
But isn't that more analogous to beta itself?
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Following a new topic sends out catch-up emails with missing group [Subject Tag] #bug

Christos G. Psarras
 

UPDATE:

I followed a new beta topic today (https://beta.groups.io/g/main/topic/new_group_charter/69937945) and the auto-generated catch-up emails came in mixed, some did have the [beta] tag, others didn't; some of Mark's replies had it, but non of the rest did, see below.

Cheers,
Christos



moderated Expanding expanded message view upon mouse hover #suggestion

Samuel Murrayy
 

Hello

Currently, if you want to read messages via the web site, you can either use non-expanded view (which shows only a very short preview of each message, without line breaks) or expanded view, which expands all messages fully.

It's not really possible to follow a conversation in non-expanded view, but the expanded view shows too much (I mean, it results in too much scrolling and makes it harder to get a global overview of things).

So, I would like to suggest a type of expanded view that contracts each message at either 10 lines of 1000 characters, and where the message automatically expands in full when you hover your mouse over the message (or when you click anywhere on the message). I believe this is possible in modern HTML. The top of the message should not move upwards or downwards when this expanding (and re-contracting) occurs.

I'm not suggesting a feature in which the messages are truncated with a "See more..." kind of link that must be clicked in order to see more. I mean, I would have no objection to it, but then I would like the "See more..." link to be close to the scroll bar and easy to click without having to move the mouse too much.

Samuel


moderated Re: Process to propose new features #meta

Samuel Murrayy
 

On 21/01/2020 19:27, Mark Fletcher wrote:

Right now, proposing a #suggestion is a free-for-all. Duplicate suggestions appear often. Previously discarded suggestions come back up, etc etc.
Well, if you could implement a search feature in GIO that allows users to limit their search to (a) the subject line and (b) the first message in a topic, you can reduce much of the reposting of previously made suggestions. It's a rule in many bug/feature posting systems that it is considered good manners to check the past bug/feature posts, but that is difficult here because one can't avoid including subsequent comments in the search.

It would help me if we could establish some kind of process around it, a way to help people vet their ideas before they are officially proposed.
Yes, that is why on several other software projects I've seen, there is a bug-and-feature discussion group where anyone can post anything, and then there is a separate bug-and-feature submission system, where people submit their bugs/features in a more formalised way. The bug/feature submission systems do have discussion capabilities, but the majority of discussions take place in a discussion forum that is separate from the bug/feature submission system.

Sometimes, such bug/feature submissions are carefully crafted and are the result of discussion elsewhere, and sometimes people just post without having checked if the issue has consensus because they believe their idea has merit without having to ask others.

It seems it would be good for there to be a way to 'discuss' a proposed suggestion before it actually becomes a suggestion.
[Sorry, I must say this: it's curious how you use the word "proposal" for the informal submission and "suggestion" for the formal submission. I would have thought the opposite: something is either a mere suggestion, or it is submitted as a formal proposal. So, be prepared for people misunderstanding these two terms.]

In either case, once a consensus is reached (and only then), submit a #suggestion, referencing the proposal topic. If there's no interest in the #proposal, it doesn't become a #suggestion.
Interest in discussing an idea can increase or decrease depending on many factors (holidays, weekends, trends, post quality), and it would be unfortunate if good sugg^H^H^H^Hproposals were prevented from being brought to the developers' attention simply because the world's attention happened to have been elsewhere, or because no-one else had any opinion about it.

Samuel


moderated Re: Process to propose new features #meta

 

On Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 10:30 AM, Nick Dunmur wrote:
we have working groups in our organisation to facilitate exactly this
But isn't that more analogous to beta itself?
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu