Date   

moderated Re: hashtag "done" for suggestions, analogous to "fixed" for bugs #meta #done

Gerald Boutin <groupsio@...>
 

On Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 03:27 PM, Gerald Boutin wrote:
Mark,

The list of hashtags seems to be smaller than it was previously. Were #misc and #fixed and perhaps others deleted intentionally?

#misc I am OK with losing as it is the same as no hashtag.

--
Gerald
Sorry, my bad. They are still there. I missed the "More" feature.
 
--
Gerald


moderated Re: hashtag "done" for suggestions, analogous to "fixed" for bugs #meta #done

Gerald Boutin <groupsio@...>
 

Mark,

The list of hashtags seems to be smaller than it was previously. Were #misc and #fixed and perhaps others deleted intentionally?

#misc I am OK with losing as it is the same as no hashtag.

--
Gerald


moderated Re: Process to propose new features #meta

Mo
 

I have a different idea. 

Mark what is your vision for groups.io or are you at the stage of needing input for new tech? 

Maybe instead of a free for all we concentrate on one area of the system at a time. 

What areas do you have the least technical debt that could be improved first?

What areas of technical debt do you plan on working on?

What areas are you unhappy about or have limited functionality. 

Take ideas, then go from there. 




On Tue, 21 Jan 2020 at 18:58, J_Catlady
<j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:
On Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 10:30 AM, Nick Dunmur wrote:
we have working groups in our organisation to facilitate exactly this
But isn't that more analogous to beta itself?
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Following a new topic sends out catch-up emails with missing group [Subject Tag] #bug

Christos G. Psarras
 

UPDATE:

I followed a new beta topic today (https://beta.groups.io/g/main/topic/new_group_charter/69937945) and the auto-generated catch-up emails came in mixed, some did have the [beta] tag, others didn't; some of Mark's replies had it, but non of the rest did, see below.

Cheers,
Christos



moderated Expanding expanded message view upon mouse hover #suggestion

Samuel Murrayy
 

Hello

Currently, if you want to read messages via the web site, you can either use non-expanded view (which shows only a very short preview of each message, without line breaks) or expanded view, which expands all messages fully.

It's not really possible to follow a conversation in non-expanded view, but the expanded view shows too much (I mean, it results in too much scrolling and makes it harder to get a global overview of things).

So, I would like to suggest a type of expanded view that contracts each message at either 10 lines of 1000 characters, and where the message automatically expands in full when you hover your mouse over the message (or when you click anywhere on the message). I believe this is possible in modern HTML. The top of the message should not move upwards or downwards when this expanding (and re-contracting) occurs.

I'm not suggesting a feature in which the messages are truncated with a "See more..." kind of link that must be clicked in order to see more. I mean, I would have no objection to it, but then I would like the "See more..." link to be close to the scroll bar and easy to click without having to move the mouse too much.

Samuel


moderated Re: Process to propose new features #meta

Samuel Murrayy
 

On 21/01/2020 19:27, Mark Fletcher wrote:

Right now, proposing a #suggestion is a free-for-all. Duplicate suggestions appear often. Previously discarded suggestions come back up, etc etc.
Well, if you could implement a search feature in GIO that allows users to limit their search to (a) the subject line and (b) the first message in a topic, you can reduce much of the reposting of previously made suggestions. It's a rule in many bug/feature posting systems that it is considered good manners to check the past bug/feature posts, but that is difficult here because one can't avoid including subsequent comments in the search.

It would help me if we could establish some kind of process around it, a way to help people vet their ideas before they are officially proposed.
Yes, that is why on several other software projects I've seen, there is a bug-and-feature discussion group where anyone can post anything, and then there is a separate bug-and-feature submission system, where people submit their bugs/features in a more formalised way. The bug/feature submission systems do have discussion capabilities, but the majority of discussions take place in a discussion forum that is separate from the bug/feature submission system.

Sometimes, such bug/feature submissions are carefully crafted and are the result of discussion elsewhere, and sometimes people just post without having checked if the issue has consensus because they believe their idea has merit without having to ask others.

It seems it would be good for there to be a way to 'discuss' a proposed suggestion before it actually becomes a suggestion.
[Sorry, I must say this: it's curious how you use the word "proposal" for the informal submission and "suggestion" for the formal submission. I would have thought the opposite: something is either a mere suggestion, or it is submitted as a formal proposal. So, be prepared for people misunderstanding these two terms.]

In either case, once a consensus is reached (and only then), submit a #suggestion, referencing the proposal topic. If there's no interest in the #proposal, it doesn't become a #suggestion.
Interest in discussing an idea can increase or decrease depending on many factors (holidays, weekends, trends, post quality), and it would be unfortunate if good sugg^H^H^H^Hproposals were prevented from being brought to the developers' attention simply because the world's attention happened to have been elsewhere, or because no-one else had any opinion about it.

Samuel


moderated Re: Process to propose new features #meta

 

On Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 10:30 AM, Nick Dunmur wrote:
we have working groups in our organisation to facilitate exactly this
But isn't that more analogous to beta itself?
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Process to propose new features #meta

 

I think this effectively just kicks the can down the road. You, Mark, are the ultimate decider on whether a suggestion gets submitted. You have the power right now, since new topics are moderated, about whether to accept a suggestion (i.e., allow it to be posted), or not. Rejection could be because you recognize it as a previously proposed suggestion, or similar enough to a previously proposed suggestion, to not warrant its own topic. You could presumably also accept it and immediately merge it with the similar (or identical) existing suggestion. 

I think that ultimately, someone besides members of the beta group, or of any subgroup of it, has to start keeping track of suggested features. I think, with all due respect, that is up to someone in the company, which I think at this point is just Mark. ;) Perhaps in the future it could be delegated out. But, unless I am misunderstanding something, which is a distinct possibility,  my stomach turns at the idea of turning the responsibility over to a subgroup. I doubt I would even join such a group.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Process to propose new features #meta

 

On 21 Jan 2020, at 18:27, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:

Ideally, I would not have to moderate (or spend much time involved with) the #proposal process. I think we all want me focused on actually getting stuff implemented. :-)

The sub-group sounds like a good idea - we have working groups in our organisation to facilitate exactly this, which is what your unmoderated sub-group would effectively be.

kind regards

Nick
___

dUNMUR | member of the AOP


moderated Process to propose new features #meta

 

Hi All,

Ken in https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/23853 mentioned something I've been thinking about. Right now, proposing a #suggestion is a free-for-all. Duplicate suggestions appear often. Previously discarded suggestions come back up, etc etc. It would help me if we could establish some kind of process around it, a way to help people vet their ideas before they are officially proposed. It would not be my goal to put up roadblocks or otherwise intimidate newbies from sharing their ideas; the opposite actually. I want to increase the quality of suggestions.

It seems it would be good for there to be a way to 'discuss' a proposed suggestion before it actually becomes a suggestion. Which means that the suggestion process involves two steps, the #proposal and the #suggestion. I can see two ways of doing the #proposal:

  • Create a new, unmoderated subgroup to discuss proposals.
  • Add a new feature to hashtags that would work as follows:
    • The topic is set so that no one follows it.
    • Replying to the message automatically sets you to follow the topic.
    • You would be able to manually follow the topic as well if you wish.

In either case, once a consensus is reached (and only then), submit a #suggestion, referencing the proposal topic. If there's no interest in the #proposal, it doesn't become a #suggestion.

Ideally, I would not have to moderate (or spend much time involved with) the #proposal process. I think we all want me focused on actually getting stuff implemented. :-)

Thoughts?

Thanks, Mark


moderated Re: New Group Charter #admin

 

On Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 09:56 AM, Chris Jones wrote:
people should not be banned from expressing genuinely held reservations about something
Especially should be allowed if the genuinely held reservations have to do with concern for the product as a whole, rather than a personal desire or dislike, respectively, for a suggested feature. This is especially true in the case of suggested optional-per-group features. When argued against, there is often a backlash by some here to the effect that "just because you don't want it, don't assume that other groups don't want it." I may or may or not a suggested optional feature x for my own group. But regardless of whether or not I personally would find it useful, I may argue against it because I feel that having the feature in some groups and not others would cause confusion at a higher level, when users see it one group and assume it's there in another (and vice-versa) and get confused by the inconsistency. So there are genuinely held reservations that have more to do with global rather than personal, local concerns.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: non-mod usable beta tag set for private replies only #meta

 

I disagree. Let us have a little personality here! You could limit the number of lines in a signature as an optional group setting (something I suggested here long ago, actually.) That could cut down on the sheer volume. 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: non-mod usable beta tag set for private replies only #meta

Chris Jones
 

On Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 05:16 PM, Ken Kloeber wrote:
** Mark, could I also suggest that signatures on Beta (other than a name, etc.) be "discouraged"?  They add nothing to Beta and are better reserved for individual groups and just add to the volume we have to view.  If you don't have one, I don't see a compelling reason why we need them.
A very definite "Like" for that!

Chris


moderated Re: New Group Charter #admin

 

On Mon, Jan 20, 2020 at 7:41 PM J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

What should be done now, if anything, about suggestions we've already posted on canny? I noticed you implemented the MF group setting option from there. Should I assume that the rest of my suggestions there have already "registered" with you, or should I/we start repeating them here?

I just went through Canny and posted a bunch of #suggestions to beta (I temporarily turned the #suggestion hashtag to No Email when I did so to avoid spamming the list).
 
Same question with bugs reported to support for which no acknowledgement was received. I have a couple in my sent folder from long ago and could repost them here.

Please do.

Thanks,
Mark 


moderated Re: New Group Charter #admin

Chris Jones
 

On Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 05:15 PM, Ken Kloeber wrote:
- "That would cause a mess" or "cause more confusion than now" or "can't be implemented"  or ..... similar type replies.  
I can see what you are getting at but people should not be banned from expressing genuinely held reservations about something.

- For the most part "opinions" have little value and add to unnecessary chaff on Beta.  Everyone has one and every one (just as everyone) is as valid as another.
That is, of course, an opinion and thus by your own definition adds little value. :) At the same time almost all suggestions are based on an "opinion".

Chris


moderated Enlarge the vertical size of the "Your Groups" pull-down menu #suggestion

 

(Copied over from the Canny board)

Right now it's always the same height (not big enough IMO) regardless of the screen's vertical-size, so there is scrolling that much of it can be avoided if the menu's vertical size/height was bigger.

Thanks and Cheers,

Christos


moderated Allow unlock of auto-locked topics #suggestion

 

(Copied over from the Canny board)

Topics that were automatically locked or moderated by a group time-out setting, when unlocked/moderated by hand go back to being locked/moderated overnight by the system. It should be possible to unlock or unmoderate such topics by hand and have them stay that way.


moderated Thumbnails in Topics view #suggestion

 

(Copied over from the Canny board)

Would it be possible for owners to set the option to have the default topics/messages view feature a thumbnail in the snippet preview?

Seems like for a group like a classifieds - that this would be nice - like in the feed - but with snippet. First image is a mock-up and i

didn’t flatten it so you can see the extra space needed to accommodate a slightly smaller thumbnail.


moderated Search member directory #suggestion #done

 

(Copied over from the Canny board)

As a member I want to be able to search the member directory so I can find others based on information within their profile.

Specific to our situation, members own different models of sailboats. I would like to be able to find the members that have the same sailboat model as myself.


moderated Counters in member dropdown #suggestion

 

(Copied over from the Canny board)

Add counters to the various categories in the member dropdown - pending, bouncing, etc.