Date   

moderated Re: non-mod usable beta tag set for private replies only #meta

 

Mark,

Thanks for your response. It is very helpful, after making a suggestion, to have an idea of which way you are leaning on it. 

At this point I have no particularly compelling example. The request was motivated by my futile attempt to keep my yahoo query from generating onlist replies. At the time, not knowing that the limited hashtags were on the way, I had a brief thought of asking you to set the topic to private replies only. Some other groups I’m aware of have a specific hashtag #OT that is set to private, and I thought that could cut down on the clutter that occurred last night. I was actually glad that you finally locked the thread.

The main kinds of off-topic posts I see in beta involve “help” questions. Even with the new hashtag restrictions, topics here frequently start with a valid suggestion but then quickly devolve into long, drawn-out “how to” threads that don’t belong in beta. I think that adding a “private” hashtag even to those kinds of threads, once they take off in that kind of direction, could actually cut down on clutter and messsges that don’t belong in beta.

I think a hashtag like #OT would be used very infrequently by group members themselves, and when used, would result in only a single message onlist. Whereas if the hashtag could be used by you to stop topics from going in the wrong direction.

That’s the only case I can make right now. 


On Jan 20, 2020, at 4:35 PM, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:

On Mon, Jan 20, 2020 at 04:28 PM, J_Catlady wrote:

It might be helpful to allow beta members to start topics that they only want private replies to, either because they are somewhat off-topic and they don’t want to clutter up the message list with the replies, and/or they want to communicate with others offlist about the subject for some other (non-nefarious) reason, thinking that beta members may be the best-equipped to discuss it with. To that end, I suggest a beta hashtag set to private replies only and usable by non-mods.

My first inclination is to not do this. I thought there was too much off-topic stuff on Beta recently, and I'd like to avoid that going forward. I'd like it to be more focused than it has been recently. If you have a specific example, I could be open to changing my mind. But I think it'd have to be compelling.

Thanks, Mark


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated WIKI page / sidebar layout request #suggestion

KWKloeber
 

Mark, 
The Wiki user sidebar takes up a lot of real estate - maybe unnecessarily so -- especially on a laptop.  Some pages are not text - I just show an example displaying text info that is an image.  Could the layout be improved by adding any/all of the following?
(See my red edits on screenshot) 

* A narrower sidebar (or MOD settable width would be best?)  It would force links (and txt) to be more conservative (as U do on the left menu) or be multi-line.
* Being able to expand the wiki page content frame to full screen (going browser full-screen expands everything, not only the wiki content)
* Being able to hide/unhide/collapse/shrink or slide-right/expand the sidebar - whatever works. (using typical shrink/restore icons.) (initial/default view being MOD settable or a cookie-remembered, etc)
* Just as you have a scoot-to-top icon - adding a jump-to-bottom (needed for long pages to jump to Edit/Save/other options.)

thx
-ken


moderated Re: non-mod usable beta tag set for private replies only #meta

 

On Mon, Jan 20, 2020 at 04:28 PM, J_Catlady wrote:

It might be helpful to allow beta members to start topics that they only want private replies to, either because they are somewhat off-topic and they don’t want to clutter up the message list with the replies, and/or they want to communicate with others offlist about the subject for some other (non-nefarious) reason, thinking that beta members may be the best-equipped to discuss it with. To that end, I suggest a beta hashtag set to private replies only and usable by non-mods.

My first inclination is to not do this. I thought there was too much off-topic stuff on Beta recently, and I'd like to avoid that going forward. I'd like it to be more focused than it has been recently. If you have a specific example, I could be open to changing my mind. But I think it'd have to be compelling.

Thanks, Mark


moderated non-mod usable beta tag set for private replies only #meta

 

It might be helpful to allow beta members to start topics that they only want private replies to, either because they are somewhat off-topic and they don’t want to clutter up the message list with the replies, and/or they want to communicate with others offlist about the subject for some other (non-nefarious) reason, thinking that beta members may be the best-equipped to discuss it with. To that end, I suggest a beta hashtag set to private replies only and usable by non-mods.


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: New Group Charter #admin

 

On Mon, Jan 20, 2020 at 03:15 PM, Bruce Bowman wrote:

Since we now have a recognized #bug hashtag, should we begin to submit bug reports here instead of support@groups.io?

Yes please.

Thanks, Mark


moderated Re: New Group Charter #admin

 

On Mon, Jan 20, 2020 at 02:21 PM, JohnF wrote:

I see on the hashtag list that #meta and #suggestion refer to the app, even though this is the main non-app beta group.

Whoops. Fixed.

Thanks, Mark


moderated Re: New Group Charter #admin

 

On Mon, Jan 20, 2020 at 02:21 PM, JohnF wrote:
I see on the hashtag list that #meta and #suggestion refer to the app
Good catch. I completely missed that and assumed they applied to groups.io as a whole - including that "meta" meant suggestions about the beta group.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: New Group Charter #admin

Bruce Bowman
 

Since we now have a recognized #bug hashtag, should we begin to submit bug reports here instead of support@groups.io?

Bruce


moderated Re: make "use by mods only" hashtag restriction viewable by non-mods #suggestion

Laurence Marks <marks@...>
 

J_Catlady wrote:
Another idea is to use single-letter codes, with a key at the bottom of the page - M for mod only, L for locked, P for private replies only, etc. But that may not be enough information (e.g. if M, you still don’t know if it’s replies by mods only; if D for duration, yoh don’t know the duration; etc). So another idea is to give non-mods ability to click on each tag to see a detailed page, similar to what mods have but without edit capability.

I'm not sure what form the implementation would take, but if all are visible, this would be a perfect place for Tooltips!

Larry

--
Larry Marks


moderated Re: New Group Charter #admin

 

I see on the hashtag list that #meta and #suggestion refer to the app, even though this is the main non-app beta group.

JohnF


moderated Re: make "use by mods only" hashtag restriction viewable by non-mods #suggestion

Michael Pavan
 

On Jan 20, 2020, at 4:26 PM, Bruce Bowman <@BruceBowman> wrote:

On Mon, Jan 20, 2020 at 03:49 PM, Gerald Boutin wrote:
Duh, the aha moment, this isn't obvious when using email. Double duh - if you're emailing and not online, you don't have a place to look to see if a tag is available.

Tell me what I am missing? (Or did I get it right this time?)
Gerald -- I think you got it right, but am not very clear on what can be done about it.

For what it's worth, when someone sends a non-compliant message via email, the offending post is held in Draft form, and the post-er is sent a notification containing a link to that draft.
This notification could have the list of permitted hashtags, preferably with an explanation of their use, so that email only users do not have to go online.

The link to the draft may go unused if they choose to correct / recompose using their email client.


If the link is followed, at that point the subscriber will be online and have access to the acceptable hashtags.

After being forced to jump through that hoop several times perhaps things will get more intuitive (or perhaps not).


moderated Re: make "use by mods only" hashtag restriction viewable by non-mods #suggestion

 

Another idea is to use single-letter codes, with a key at the bottom of the page - M for mod only, L for locked, P for private replies only, etc. But that may not be enough information (e.g. if M, you still don’t know if it’s replies by mods only; if D for duration, yoh don’t know the duration; etc). So another idea is to give non-mods ability to click on each tag to see a detailed page, similar to what mods have but without edit capability.


On Jan 20, 2020, at 1:26 PM, Bruce Bowman <bruce.bowman@...> wrote:

On Mon, Jan 20, 2020 at 03:49 PM, Gerald Boutin wrote:
Duh, the aha moment, this isn't obvious when using email. Double duh - if you're emailing and not online, you don't have a place to look to see if a tag is available.

Tell me what I am missing? (Or did I get it right this time?)
Gerald -- I think you got it right, but am not very clear on what can be done about it.

For what it's worth, when someone sends a non-compliant message via email, the offending post is held in Draft form, and the post-er is sent a notification containing a link to that draft. If the link is followed, at that point the subscriber will be online and have access to the acceptable hashtags.

After being forced to jump through that hoop several times perhaps things will get more intuitive (or perhaps not).

Bruce

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: New Group Charter #admin

 

On Mon, Jan 20, 2020 at 1:05 PM Chris Jones via Groups.Io <chrisjones12=btinternet.com@groups.io> wrote:
On Mon, Jan 20, 2020 at 06:07 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
This group is now set so that all new topics are moderated.
Mark; during (roughly) what hours will moderation effort be available? The information is most likely to be of help to those of us not on the Pacific Coast!


Yes, I'm generally on Pacific Time. But even when I'm awake I will not be looking at beta all the time; I'd never get anything done. :-) I do think slowing the conversations down a little bit won't hurt the group and may even be a benefit. 

Thanks,
Mark


moderated Re: make "use by mods only" hashtag restriction viewable by non-mods #suggestion

Bruce Bowman
 

On Mon, Jan 20, 2020 at 03:49 PM, Gerald Boutin wrote:
Duh, the aha moment, this isn't obvious when using email. Double duh - if you're emailing and not online, you don't have a place to look to see if a tag is available.

Tell me what I am missing? (Or did I get it right this time?)
Gerald -- I think you got it right, but am not very clear on what can be done about it.

For what it's worth, when someone sends a non-compliant message via email, the offending post is held in Draft form, and the post-er is sent a notification containing a link to that draft. If the link is followed, at that point the subscriber will be online and have access to the acceptable hashtags.

After being forced to jump through that hoop several times perhaps things will get more intuitive (or perhaps not).

Bruce


moderated Re: New Group Charter #admin

Chris Jones
 

On Mon, Jan 20, 2020 at 06:07 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
This group is now set so that all new topics are moderated.
Mark; during (roughly) what hours will moderation effort be available? The information is most likely to be of help to those of us not on the Pacific Coast!

Chris


moderated Re: How many groups does Groups.io host?

Duane
 

On Mon, Jan 20, 2020 at 11:38 AM, Thomas Gruber wrote:
Look at the groups IO home page, then list groups by name (publicly listed groups) - and you’ll see 23756 at the bottom.
I can confirm that there were at least 59,873 last Tuesday (more by now), including non-public groups.

Duane


moderated Re: make "use by mods only" hashtag restriction viewable by non-mods #suggestion

Gerald Boutin <groupsio@...>
 

On Mon, Jan 20, 2020 at 03:55 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
In looking at the beta hashtag list this morning, I realized that I couldn't directly see which ones were for use by mods only. Of course I received the message this morning about the four hashtags open to use by non-mods, but in general, it would be helpful for non-mod members to be able to directly see which hashtags are available to them in a group.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

I am always leery when I think something is obvious, only to be told that I've missed the real "obvious" part, but here goes...

Since a non-moderator only ever sees the available hashtags in the drop-down when starting a new topic, isn't the inference that if you can't use it, it doesn't really matter.

Duh, the aha moment, this isn't obvious when using email. Double duh - if you're emailing and not online, you don't have a place to look to see if a tag is available.

Tell me what I am missing? (Or did I get it right this time?)
 
--
Gerald


moderated Re: make "use by mods only" hashtag restriction viewable by non-mods #suggestion

 

Or light gray, like unavailable seats when you’re buying tickets to something.


On Jan 20, 2020, at 12:46 PM, J_Catlady via Groups.Io <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

One way would be to designate an automatic dedicated color for mod-only tags. I’m predicting there may be some objections here to that, but it seems like a very simple way for the user’s eye to filter out all the red (or black, or whatever) tags as not available to them.


On Jan 20, 2020, at 12:34 PM, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:

On Mon, Jan 20, 2020 at 11:55 AM J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:
In looking at the beta hashtag list this morning, I realized that I couldn't directly see which ones were for use by mods only. Of course I received the message this morning about the four hashtags open to use by non-mods, but in general, it would be helpful for non-mod members to be able to directly see which hashtags are available to them in a group.

I've added a banned icon to the hashtags that are mods only. I admit that may not be the best icon; I'd be happy to take suggestions on that. Also, displaying other aspects of each hashtag would be a good idea, but I'm not sure how to shoe-horn all that into boxes without them getting unwieldy. 

Thanks,
Mark

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: make "use by mods only" hashtag restriction viewable by non-mods #suggestion

 

One way would be to designate an automatic dedicated color for mod-only tags. I’m predicting there may be some objections here to that, but it seems like a very simple way for the user’s eye to filter out all the red (or black, or whatever) tags as not available to them.


On Jan 20, 2020, at 12:34 PM, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:

On Mon, Jan 20, 2020 at 11:55 AM J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:
In looking at the beta hashtag list this morning, I realized that I couldn't directly see which ones were for use by mods only. Of course I received the message this morning about the four hashtags open to use by non-mods, but in general, it would be helpful for non-mod members to be able to directly see which hashtags are available to them in a group.

I've added a banned icon to the hashtags that are mods only. I admit that may not be the best icon; I'd be happy to take suggestions on that. Also, displaying other aspects of each hashtag would be a good idea, but I'm not sure how to shoe-horn all that into boxes without them getting unwieldy. 

Thanks,
Mark

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: make "use by mods only" hashtag restriction viewable by non-mods #suggestion

 

On Mon, Jan 20, 2020 at 11:55 AM J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:
In looking at the beta hashtag list this morning, I realized that I couldn't directly see which ones were for use by mods only. Of course I received the message this morning about the four hashtags open to use by non-mods, but in general, it would be helpful for non-mod members to be able to directly see which hashtags are available to them in a group.

I've added a banned icon to the hashtags that are mods only. I admit that may not be the best icon; I'd be happy to take suggestions on that. Also, displaying other aspects of each hashtag would be a good idea, but I'm not sure how to shoe-horn all that into boxes without them getting unwieldy. 

Thanks,
Mark