Date   

moderated Re: Non-permitted groups

 

On Sat, Dec 28, 2019 at 7:26 AM Stephen Cowley via Groups.Io <stephen.cowley=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:
The list of groups that are not permitted under the "Help" section is as follows on 28 Dec 2019:
    4. Groups dedicated to the promotion of extreme, hateful, or exclusionary ideas, including but not limited to, the alt-right.
    5. Groups dedicated to the promotion of conspiracy theories, including, but not limited to: Gamergate, Pizzagate, and Qanon.
I object to the limits 4 and 5 place on political discourse. The central terms are undefined, subjective and even self-contradictory.

If you object, you should take your groups elsewhere. There are plenty of places on the Internet to host groups; Facebook is a popular place to host these types of groups.

I am happy to consider better definitions, should you have them. But I will not consider removing these restrictions.

I have moderated this topic and will delete any non-constructive responses.

Mark 


moderated Non-permitted groups

Stephen Cowley <stephen.cowley@...>
 

The list of groups that are not permitted under the "Help" section is as follows on 28 Dec 2019:

"We do not permit the following types of groups and content:

  1. Pornography, adult content or nudity.
  2. Harassment of any kind.
  3. Groups that share media or content whose distribution would be in violation of copyright law.
  4. Groups dedicated to the promotion of extreme, hateful, or exclusionary ideas, including but not limited to, the alt-right.
  5. Groups dedicated to the promotion of conspiracy theories, including, but not limited to: Gamergate, Pizzagate, and Qanon.
  6. Groups dedicated to the promotion of anti-vaccination ideologies.
  7. Groups that are designed strictly to use our directory as an advertisement for something other than the group itself."
I object to the limits 4 and 5 place on political discourse. The central terms are undefined, subjective and even self-contradictory. To cut to the chase, "Alt-Right" ideas (e.g. immigration restriction, retention of ethnic majorities) are majority positions in much of the world. The elected governments of India (BJP), Japan and South Korea for example enjoy majority support, as do the elected governments of Hungary and Poland. Why should ideas with 70% popular support be branded "extreme"? The category of "hateful" is subjective, as one person may like what another person hates. Any immigration policy is "exclusionary", as it excludes people who do not meet the immigration criteria, but the remaining position of open borders is itself "extreme", as virtually all countries have immigration and citizenship tests. If "Alt-Right" ideas are beyond the pale, why not communism, or socialism, or deep ecology, or liberalism, or conservatism? 

The classic texts of liberalism (Joseph Priestley's Essay on the First Principles of Government, John Stuart Mill's On Liberty)  advocate for free discussion as a means of getting to the truth of a matter. The internet flourished on this in its early days. I would like to see these principles applied on this site.


moderated Re: Feature requests/Canny after two weeks

 

Or just add it as part of the sig line of moderators and any other regular participants who want to note that this is a peer to peer group. That’s the simplest way to alert folks. 

Susan B 


On Dec 28, 2019, at 9:54 AM, Patti Woodbury <deserthorses@...> wrote:

It might be clearer that GMF is a peer to peer “not official” group if it were renamed “Groups Manager Community” or “Groups Community Forum”. Many site have both an “official” Help/Support arm and a user community group.

Patti


moderated Re: Feature requests/Canny after two weeks

 

It might be clearer that GMF is a peer to peer “not official” group if it were renamed “Groups Manager Community” or “Groups Community Forum”. Many sites have both an “official” Help/Support arm and a user community group.

Patti


moderated Re: Feature requests/Canny after two weeks

 

It might be clearer that GMF is a peer to peer “not official” group if it were renamed “Groups Manager Community” or “Groups Community Forum”. Many site have both an “official” Help/Support arm and a user community group.

Patti


moderated Re: Request for Full Date-Time Stamp in Activity Logs #suggestion

JediPirx
 

Chris Jones wrote on Fri 2019/12/27 12:01 :
Date & Time formats are settable per Account
I set this when I created my GIO account in Apr 2019 to
YYYY-MM-DD and Military Time. It is also the same format
I set in my group's Admin-->Settings-->Default Sub Settings
for new users.


Duane wrote on Fri 2019/12/27 12:01 :
They already have the complete date and time. Just hover the
mouse cursor over the time or date and it will give you the
entire thing.
Ahh, yes, I see. This will do. It displays as Xxx xx, 20xx xx:xx
[example : Dec 28, 2019 01:33]


J_Catlady wrote on Fri 2019/12/27 12:39 :
Perhaps you're asking for a full display ?
Precisely, as per my preference : yyyy-mm-dd HH:mm:[ss]
where [ss] is optional for most people but I deal with
such date/time stamps regularly.


Maybe there isn't enough space for that.
Perhaps.


Thanks to all,

Stan/elgio


moderated Re: More attachment size selections requested

Duane
 

On Fri, Dec 27, 2019 at 06:17 PM, Glenn wrote:
Clicking the link in the email opens their browser, then they have to login in the browser, before they can download it.
Only if they've logged out or deleted cookies.  You'll stay logged in indefinitely as long as you visit the site at least once every 30 days and don't delete cookies.  In that case, the file pops up immediately when the browser opens.

Duane


moderated Re: More attachment size selections requested

Glenn
 

On Fri, Dec 20, 2019 at 09:56 AM, Christos G. Psarras wrote:
On Fri, Dec 20, 2019 at 04:31 AM, Glenn wrote:
Large attachments have their place for some groups.

My suggestion for something like this, i.e. a useful and very large file that is of benefit to the whole group, is to place it in the Files (or Photos, depending on file type), then include the link to it in the email; if it helps, include a small preview of that file in the message.  Then folks can download it if they want to; with files, it's the direct link to the file and clicking it (or right-click-SaveAs) will open or save the file, with photos one has to follw the link first to open up the group's Photos, then they can download it from there.
In my testing, it's not quite direct... Clicking the link in the email opens their browser, then they have to login in the browser, before they can download it. That's quite a bit more involved that saving an attachment that has already been downloaded with an email.

 I


moderated How best to handle feature requests: Canny or hashtags

Kristen James Eberlein
 

My preference would be for a dedicated system, Canny or something else.

Second choice would be using hashtags here.

I do not have time to scan a lot of messages.

Best,
Kris

Kristen James Eberlein
Chair, OASIS DITA Technical Committee
Principal consultant, Eberlein Consulting
www.eberleinconsulting.com
+1 919 622-1501; kriseberlein (skype)

On 12/27/2019 1:23 AM, Mark Fletcher wrote:

All,

Please, let's limit this thread to only discussing the possibility of switching off Canny and using hashtags instead, and if we do, how that would look/work.

Mark

_._


moderated Re: Yahoo Groups transfers on and extended to December 5th

Steve G
 

Thank you Donald and everyone else who replied with helpful information. You've got me pointed in the right direction.

Have a great rest of your holiday season!

Steve


moderated Re: Request for Full Date-Time Stamp in Activity Logs #suggestion

 

On Fri, Dec 27, 2019 at 08:56 AM, JediPirx wrote:
I would also request that the Activity log specify
full date and time stamp
That's already there if you hover over the date. Perhaps you're asking for a full display? Maybe there isn't enough space for that.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu
Note on an occupational hazard: I comment frequently in beta based on my desire for the betterment of groups.io as a product. Only a fraction of the time are my comments and suggestions specifically a matter of self-interest. Don't assume the latter when the former may be the case.


moderated Re: Feature requests/Canny after two weeks

txercoupemuseum.org
 

Back in the late seventies I started a quick print shop.  Before I had worked in engineering design.  Hired am accounting consultant who immediately handed me a generic “List of Accounts”.  Let’s call THOSE “labels”.

I used that “List of Accounts” to created my own from categories and specifics that I believed had the greatest potential to affect on my “bottom line”.  (Still “labels”?)  This led me into fundamental conflict with traditional filing systems.  If I wanted to check out my “Ink” or “paper” sources and costs I had to ask other people the name of my various sources to access the documents comprising the data necessary to do so.

Because I answered to no one (but the market  ;<), I had all my filing re-indexed (renamed/relabeled?) by subject and then by source/vendor.  THEN I (and ALL of my people) could easily and immediately access such data to make related business decisions.

My point is that “labels" can obscure as easily as clarify when attempting to communicate.  It has been said that copper wire came into being when two lawyers argued over a penny.

Humans seem to habitually obscure simple concepts to consolidate their position in an organization by limiting effective access to the purpose and effectiveness of information and its function.  Just how the concept and unique capabilities of “Hashtags” improve the “clarity challenge” remain unclear to me.  I fail to see how more “information technology jargon” can be of help.

In a debate between mechanics, at some point people have to agree on the terms that define the problem.  Only THEN do one or more solutions become apparent.  People THEN still have to “touch the parts” to physically “FIX the problem".

WRB

— 

On Dec 27, 2019, at 10:19 AM, J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

On Fri, Dec 27, 2019 at 01:06 AM, txercoupemuseum.org wrote:
As to hashtags…those may be fine for those who understand them and working with them.
It's too bad they weren't simply named "labels" instead of "hashtags," because (although they do have some optional advanced functions in groups.io), that's really all they are. You can tell anybody who doesn't understand "hashtags" that it's just a fancy word for "labels."
 
--
J


moderated Re: Feature requests/Canny after two weeks

 

I usually hang out behind the scenes but have been monitoring the beta group since the beginning (or close to it). I like seeing the kinds of ideas people have for Groups.io, and beta is easy to skim. When there are a lot of messages at once, I can switch it to expanded mode in ascending order, and just page through them.

If I ever looked at Canny, it was maybe just once to see what it was. I don't look there at all now.

So basically, I would prefer all enhancement discussion be in beta. I don't mind bugs being here, too, especially if they might affect a lot of users, but you can continue to encourage those to be reported to support@groups.io for faster service.

The hashtags wouldn't be meaningful to me, as I just scroll through everything, but they're OK if they're helpful to others.

Thanks,
JohnF


moderated Re: Request for Full Date-Time Stamp in Activity Logs #suggestion

Chris Jones
 

On Fri, Dec 27, 2019 at 04:56 PM, JediPirx wrote:
YahooGroup displayed date-timestamps in their Activity
logs as : yyyy-mm-dd HH:mm:ss (24-hour/military time)
Date & Time formats are settable per Account, i.e. per Subscriber / Member. Find your Account and choose as appropriate.

Chris


moderated Re: Feature requests/Canny after two weeks

Leeni
 

I wouldn't even understand them if they were named labels.
I don't use them in my groups nor does anyone in the groups that I am in use them.
 
 
 
 

-------Original Message-------
 
From: J_Catlady
Date: 12/27/2019 10:19:16 AM
Subject: Re: [beta] Feature requests/Canny after two weeks
 
On Fri, Dec 27, 2019 at 01:06 AM, txercoupemuseum.org wrote:
As to hashtags…those may be fine for those who understand them and working with them.
It's too bad they weren't simply named "labels" instead of "hashtags," because (although they do have some optional advanced functions in groups.io), that's really all they are. You can tell anybody who doesn't understand "hashtags" that it's just a fancy word for "labels."
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu
Note on an occupational hazard: I comment frequently in beta based on my desire for the betterment of groups.io as a product. Only a fraction of the time are my comments and suggestions specifically a matter of self-interest. Don't assume the latter when the former may be the case.

 


moderated Request for Full Date-Time Stamp in Activity Logs #suggestion

JediPirx
 

@ugcheleuce wrote on 2019/12/25 03:25 :
RFE: Three wishlist items w.r.t. Notes in Admin > Members
I third these wishlist requests.

I would also request that the Activity log specify
full date and time stamp so that I can stitch together
events surrounding a member, from different sources,
in the Notes section.

YahooGroup displayed date-timestamps in their Activity
logs as : yyyy-mm-dd HH:mm:ss (24-hour/military time)

Stan/elgio


moderated Re: Feature requests/Canny after two weeks

Janis
 

Moderators at GMF do a great job and moderation is a necessary feature for a help focused or improvement focused group.  

If we switch from Canny to Hashtags in tge Beta group, it will work better if moderated.  It will keep tbe focus on requests rather than tbe type of silky battle tgat has occured earlier in this thread.

I do not want to waste my time reading that.  We should not have to wade through battles to read feature requests.  Hashtags can work just great, but only if topucs are restricted to improvements and not allowed to devolve into off topic battles.

Maintain focus!  We are here to see improvement suggestions for the site 
We want to read only improvement suggestions. We need to find the relevant ideas quickly!  Do not waste our time with other posts!


moderated Re: Feature requests/Canny after two weeks

 

On Fri, Dec 27, 2019 at 01:06 AM, txercoupemuseum.org wrote:
As to hashtags…those may be fine for those who understand them and working with them.
It's too bad they weren't simply named "labels" instead of "hashtags," because (although they do have some optional advanced functions in groups.io), that's really all they are. You can tell anybody who doesn't understand "hashtags" that it's just a fancy word for "labels."
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu
Note on an occupational hazard: I comment frequently in beta based on my desire for the betterment of groups.io as a product. Only a fraction of the time are my comments and suggestions specifically a matter of self-interest. Don't assume the latter when the former may be the case.


moderated Re: Feature requests/Canny after two weeks

Janis
 

My vote is for using the Hashtags option!

I just looked at Canny for the first time.  I would prefer to do everything on the  groups.io .site instead. It is easier to access the Beta group and groups.io has a much better appearance than Canny. Plus we are already familiar with the Beta group. Some people only make suggestions every few years.  They are not goinfg to find Canny. 

I also agree with Sandi Dickenson that all group owners should be able to participate in suggesting improvements regardless of whether tge group is basic or premium. 

If we are required to use a hashtag when posting, hashtags will automatically track quantity of requests.  And the group should be moderated to keep other types of posts out of the group. Hashtags can relate to possible tyles of requests--for, example, photos, files, attachments, email service, membership, settings, etc.


moderated Re: Feature requests/Canny after two weeks

Sandi D
 

On Fri, Dec 27, 2019 at 01:23 AM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
possibility of switching off Canny and using hashtags instead, and if we do, how that would look/work.

Hi Mark,

I would support hashtags as a way to organize the various suggestions and determine how much support they garner. When Apple changed their photo storage structure back in 2013ish, I moved to SmugMug. I was impressed with the way SmugMug collaborated with all their user payment tiers. They collected the top 10 suggestions they felt they could implement and then gave their users 3 votes to place among those 10 suggestions. Then SM chose one of the three to begin working on. In the years since, many great site improvements have been acheived, compatibility issues have been resolved and app features added.

I can envision something similar happening with hastags. At the very least they will assist in sorting out what degree of support there is for a particular suggestion. Maybe then you could select those which are most doable for you and then use a data poll to see which garner the greatest support from your users.

I have mixed feelings on giving all the decision making about new features to Premium Groups. They already get elevated support and features that basic groups don't have access to. 

When it comes to features, I would like to see suggestions be open to everyone. Some Basic groups see much heavier participation than are seen in Premium Groups and some Basic Group Owners have a deeper understanding of the ways that their groups work because they have been at it a long time either on this platform or others. Some Basic Groups are philanthropic or non profits and they have different needs from some Premium groups that act as listservs or services. I do believe that Basic Group Owners/Mods have ideas that might garner a lot of support if they were allowed to post them. As would everyday users that are in non paying groups. 

Thanks for bringing up this topic. 
--
Sandi Dickenson
ASG Volunteers Group.