All,

Please, let's limit this thread to only discussing the possibility of switching off Canny and using hashtags instead, and if we do, how that would look/work.

Mark

On Dec 26, 2019, at 6:34 PM, J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@gmail.com> wrote:

I simply think that I and some others are able to make substantial contributions towards helping others asking for information

Agreed, that is the concept of a peer to peer group

(I’ve peeked into GMF recently and several instances of wrong info posted, or info lacking - I’ve seen sent one or two of these to Shal offlist),
and would sincerely like to do so, but are put off by the moderation.

Your correction of misinformation should be sent to the list so that it could be helpful to the misinformed and the misinformer(s).

Sending a complaint to Shal offlist is merely criticizing him for allowing what you perceive as misinformation to not have been Moderated to your satisfaction.

Try giving him (and the other Moderators) the chance to allow your 'correct information' to be helpful.

On Thu, Dec 26, 2019 at 06:37 PM, J_Catlady wrote:

No one has yet actually argued why total moderation on GMF is so crucial, in response to a number of us (three, so far) who have dared express our opinion that it change from moderated to NuM.

No one has said it's crucial.  It's my understanding that GMF, here and Yahoo, has been fully moderated for about 20 years.  I think that if it's worked this long, it can't be broken too bad.  There are now 5 moderators, so delays on approvals are usually minimal.  The things that take the longest are removing the ads, excessive quotes, and other extraneous things in the incoming messages.

Duane

>>>
Yet opinions are getting shut down just on the basis that they are opinions and we shouldn't be expressing them. To paraphrase the politicians, that's a process argument, not a factual one. No one has yet actually argued why total moderation on GMF is so crucial, in response to a number of us (three, so far) who have dared express our opinion that it change from moderated to NuM.
<<<

My sentiments exactly; I've been watching this thread with interest, and nobody has yet to actually provide any real substance as to the why; the only replies seem to be douchy insults and the typical childish take-it-or-leave-it attitude BS, and unsurprisingly-enough, those gems of answers are no less provided by the supposedly "real-experts" to the supposedly "pseudo-experts" because they (gasp!) dared express a different opinion ... I mean, really??  Are you guys incapable of participating in a civilized debate, offer a well-structured point/reply as to why some idea is not preferable, and instead devolve into 5th grade schoolyard postering??

Cheers,
Christos

Opinion vs dialog

There a broad gray line, not a thin one ...  opinions aren’t worth the bandwidth they’re printed on. Everyone has one and no one’s is more valid than another. Green or blue? Cats or dogs? Sweet potato fries or loaded curly fries?

opinions lead to (I’ve said many times) the more vocal piling into the less vocal.  Mee two, mee three, and mee as well.  The number of ayes are irrelevant. As I’ve said, if what one wants is validation, start a frickin survey. It will have as much usefulness as simply opinions expressed herein. 

 

hint/test - when one feels the need to defend oneself rather than explain or clarify a post (‘er message that is) one has crossed that broad gray line. 

i don’t use that function because....  or.. if gio had it I would because...  or... if that operated differently it would have this benefit...   is meaningful and helpful to mark.  

I don’t give a bull crap what one’s opinion is. Give me factual info to evaluate beta topics, suggestions, requests, etc. 

ps, recall that Mark has shut down topics when they become no more than opinion wars. Buyer beware. 

I promise not to take "future silence as agreement", but I certainly will take it with appreciation.
Thanks,
Chuck

Just one more thing! (Kidding 😊)
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu
Note on an occupational hazard: I comment frequently in beta based on my desire for the betterment of groups.io as a product. Only a fraction of the time are my comments and suggestions specifically a matter of self-interest. Don't assume the latter when the former may be the case.

On Thu, Dec 26, 2019 at 04:28 PM, Ken Kloeber wrote:

mark has basically reinforced that being an opinion-oriented battle group isn’t the purpose

If you read back, you will see that what Mark actually said was not to dispute someone's feature idea and to let him do that. In this thread he has specifically asked for opinions. Yet opinions are getting shut down just on the basis that they are opinions and we shouldn't be expressing them. To paraphrase the politicians, that's a process argument, not a factual one. No one has yet actually argued why total moderation on GMF is so crucial, in response to a number of us (three, so far) who have dared express our opinion that it change from moderated to NuM. 

I'm done here. Don't take future silence for agreement.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu
Note on an occupational hazard: I comment frequently in beta based on my desire for the betterment of groups.io as a product. Only a fraction of the time are my comments and suggestions specifically a matter of self-interest. Don't assume the latter when the former may be the case.

>>> that's not what I thought this group was for.<<<

you are correct, and if you read back mark has basically reinforced that being an opinion-oriented battle group isn’t the purpose nor is it helpful to the masses.  It’s humorous  how members will opt out, until/unless it’s time to defend the same opinion (again).  And some are gio developer wannabees who have the ‘best’ opinion as what’s the best for gio.  I’m not talking pluses and minuses of genuine improvements (in the eye of the beholder.)  I’m talking pseudo experts who ought to just start their own group or their own forum application/platforms and they can dictate what’s best for their own members. 

Duane,

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu
Note on an occupational hazard: I comment frequently in beta based on my desire for the betterment of groups.io as a product. Only a fraction of the time are my comments and suggestions specifically a matter of self-interest. Don't assume the latter when the former may be the case.

On Thu, Dec 26, 2019 at 12:24 PM, J_Catlady wrote:

Group Help doesn't really have critical mass.

Have you used it?  If not, then the "critical mass" will never be reached.  That group was actually here before GMF and I try to mention both when someone asks for help.  Folks already have a choice of how much moderation they're willing to accept.  Whether you choose not to use the Group_Help group or not, you shouldn't complain about GMF when there are other options available.  With something over 4 million users now, the site should be able to support several assistance groups.

Duane

In the matter of expressing opinions, Mark has asked for our thoughts on how to allocate messages between the groups. You are free to express yours as well, including your opinion that the rest of us should express ours.

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu
Note on an occupational hazard: I comment frequently in beta based on my desire for the betterment of groups.io as a product. Only a fraction of the time are my comments and suggestions specifically a matter of self-interest. Don't assume the latter when the former may be the case.

Duane,

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu
Note on an occupational hazard: I comment frequently in beta based on my desire for the betterment of groups.io as a product. Only a fraction of the time are my comments and suggestions specifically a matter of self-interest. Don't assume the latter when the former may be the case.



On Thu, Dec 26, 2019 at 03:03 PM, J_Catlady wrote:

I believe that GMF is actually shooting itself in the foot by insisting on moderation of every message, even by long-term, highly knowledgeable group members.

It sounds to me like you (or anyone that disagrees with the GMF policies) should start a help group that you can run the way you want.  Once you do, you can notify Mark and he can decide if he should add it to the recommendations on the home page of this group.

Duane

Larry,

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu
Note on an occupational hazard: I comment frequently in beta based on my desire for the betterment of groups.io as a product. Only a fraction of the time are my comments and suggestions specifically a matter of self-interest. Don't assume the latter when the former may be the case.

I also agree that GMF should be NuM; specialized tech support groups like it can benefit from not being moderated always.  I can maybe see a partial reason that GMF is (still?) moderated since anyone can join, but the NuM functionality can take care of that.

Cheers,
Christos

--
Larry Marks

On Thu, Dec 26, 2019 at 01:00 PM, David Grimm wrote:

I've been a Groups.io owner for almost 2 years, been in both GMF and this group the whole time and this is the first mention I've ever seen about Group_Help.

Which proves my point. No matter how many times, or in how many places, Group_Help is referred to or mentioned, I don't think it will be able to gain the critical mass that GMF has accumulated, for many reasons (most of them good, lest anyone think I mean otherwise). There is simply not that much for space for two groups with essentially the same function. (Yes, yes, GMF is supposed to be for group owners and Group_Help for the general public, but that distinction is really in name only, from what I've seen.)
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu
Note on an occupational hazard: I comment frequently in beta based on my desire for the betterment of groups.io as a product. Only a fraction of the time are my comments and suggestions specifically a matter of self-interest. Don't assume the latter when the former may be the case.