Date   

locked Re: Notice of Pricing Change

monamouroui
 

Hi Mark,

I'd like to make a donation to a fund that would help pay transfer fees for those who cannot afford it. If you don't have one already, would you be willing to create one? But as a capitalist, I'd like to be able to make it tax- deductible. :)

Sara


On Tue, Oct 22, 2019, 3:44 PM Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:
Hi All,

Sometimes I reflect on my youth, and harken back to that simpler time, that quieter time. You know, seven days ago.

 [Snip]

I realize it was a mistake to talk about future changes to the pricing structure without actually, you know, knowing what those changes might (or might not) be. As part of that, it was a mistake to change the definition of a free group right now. I've rolled back that change; new free groups do not have limits on the number of subscribers and subgroups. Hopefully this will address Harm Selling's concern, among others. Also, this means that any groups that wish to move over but cannot afford the transfer fee can still take advantage of a free group's invite feature.

I apologize for any confusion this may have caused.

Thanks,
Mark


locked Re: Notice of Pricing Change

Bob Bellizzi
 

consider just how many people delayed transferring their group till "the right time" and Yahoo stompped on that, big time.
Consider that the sudden influx of yahoo groups' owners suddenly deciding, in one or two days, to move to groups.io.
Still that's an issue caused by yahoo. Finally consider where all of the suddenly needed server/archival/backup and other groups.io paid for services are going to come from.
Mark had two choices, Ignore the obvious requirement for infrastructure expansion or let everyone into an undersized  and unreliable system.
Please, as with refugees, new groups need "food and lodging" of a sort, hardware and storage/backup.  There is always a cost when new burdens are accepted.

--

Bob Bellizzi


locked Re: Notice of Pricing Change

Pablo Sanchez <pablo@...>
 

On Tue, Oct 22, 2019 at 03:44 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
Sometimes I reflect on my youth, and harken back to that simpler time, that quieter time. You know, seven days ago.

  • Likes cats - check
  • Smart - check
  • Knows what the hell he's doing - check
  • Has a sense of humor - double check!
Seems like all the bases are covered!  <3 

-pablo


locked Re: Notice of Pricing Change

Bob J
 

I see no problem changing the prices, based on an obvious unforeseen increase of expenses.

However, all existing free groups should be given at least a month to be grandfathered into the Oct 21st price of $10 month/$110 a year with
any new optional transfer request being an additional $110.  This way existing basic/free groups could decide (within reasonable time)
to signup for premium before a price increase, or take the risk now to remain free, but might an even higher cost later with any
subscription pricing changes.

All new groups wanting premium or transfer services would fall under new pricing structure.  It's not price gauging to cover new unforeseen costs. Anyone
reasonable would understand the huge influx of yahoo groups caused a large unforeseen cost to GIO, as well as a necessary new revenue stream to cover those costs.
Bob


locked Re: Notice of Pricing Change

Harm Selling <h.selling@...>
 

Hi Mark, Thank you for the reply.

My messages in this group were impulsive. So I removed them earlier this evening. I thought I signed up for your service for a one-time fee of 110 dollar, and no more, not now not in the future. But when I saw your notice I saw amounts of 220 dollar a year or a fee per group member.

The Yahoo group I'd like to transfer, has a member list of 1188 members. But that list is a result of almost 20 years (since the year 2000), without regular cleaning. I suppose only a small part of the members in the list is really active anymore.

The flow in the group is small, average 40-50 messages a month. In the past (the period 2003-2013) the flow was much larger, average 300-400 a month.

I'll wait for the Yahoo group transfer and after that I'll clean the members list, by checking the members, so I can remove the bouncing addresses and the members who don't reply. So I hope, to bring the members list into line with the real actual smaller size of the group.

Harm Selling


locked Re: Notice of Pricing Change

Kevin Bess KK4BFN - SM NFL
 

That sounds like a good idea..

73,

Kevin Bess - KK4BFN


Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S9 on the Sprint Network because it's hard to carry an HF radio in your pocket!

   

On Tue, Oct 22, 2019, 4:30 PM Shal Farley <shals2nd@...> wrote:
Mark,


... As part of that, it was a mistake to change the definition of a free group right now. I've rolled back that change; new free groups do not have limits on the number of subscribers and subgroups.

Please edit https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/22528 to reflect that change - the pricing page links to it.

My intention with the pricing change is solely to set up the business for long term success and to help offset the very large increase in my costs over just this past week.

I should have said so yesterday, but if it is even close to economically feasible you should push the effective date of the pricing change out to at least Nov 1st. As it stands you've whacked a bunch of Y!Group owners while they're still reeling from Yahoo's announcement. The near-zero-notice price change has not only caused much anguish but also a backlash of ill-will towards Groups.io, besmirching its reputation as a solid home for Y!Group refugees. The price change is a problem for many, but for many others the lack of notice is an even bigger issue.

Shal


locked Re: Notice of Pricing Change

 

Mark,


... As part of that, it was a mistake to change the definition of a free group right now. I've rolled back that change; new free groups do not have limits on the number of subscribers and subgroups.

Please edit https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/22528 to reflect that change - the pricing page links to it.

My intention with the pricing change is solely to set up the business for long term success and to help offset the very large increase in my costs over just this past week.

I should have said so yesterday, but if it is even close to economically feasible you should push the effective date of the pricing change out to at least Nov 1st. As it stands you've whacked a bunch of Y!Group owners while they're still reeling from Yahoo's announcement. The near-zero-notice price change has not only caused much anguish but also a backlash of ill-will towards Groups.io, besmirching its reputation as a solid home for Y!Group refugees. The price change is a problem for many, but for many others the lack of notice is an even bigger issue.

Shal


locked Re: Notice of Pricing Change

rich hurd
 

Kevin,

"Transfer approval?"  The instructions clearly stated that Step 1 was to upgrade to the Premium service and pay a year in advance before you started anything else. 

I'm an amateur myself - WC3T - so I come from a bunch of cheapos.   :)   I saw an amazing thing recently, though.  If you go to the Elecraft-KX3 group, however, you'll see a ton of folks who are committing to "passing the hat" and helping defray the cost of the GIO service. 

I prefer to think that people will offer to help out to keep a good thing going.   I did the same thing with my group.   Don't try and do it alone but I sure wouldn't give up on this service yet.


On Tue, Oct 22, 2019 at 4:15 PM Kevin Bess KK4BFN - SM NFL <kk4bfn@...> wrote:
I was waiting for the transfer approval to go through before having to subscribe... now its double to do so.... no bueno

73,

Kevin 

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S on the Sprint Network because it's hard to carry an HF radio in your pocket!

   

On Tue, Oct 22, 2019, 4:05 PM Leeni <leeniluvsgroups@...> wrote:
Why don't you all read what the message Mark wote means.
You are all reading into it more then it says. If you have a free group it will remain free unless your membership exceeds 500 members and only then you might have to pay to host your group on the site. But he didn't say EVERYONE will have to Pay to use Groups IO.
 
If you paid $110 for the transfer - next year your use on groups IO could be free if you opt not to continue with paying for the service. Now groups that have over 500 members may have to pay. 
 
If you paid $110 for the transfer you will not be paying the higher fee that groups that just initiated the process will have to pay. It is because they are in crunch mode that the fee was made higher due to the amount of work Mark has to put in and probably due to hardware he needed to get to accommodate thousands of groups wanting to be be transferred. In no way is it equivalent to price gouging. Mark has incurred extra expenses to have all these groups come aboard at one time.   Mark has to spend a lot of extra time to beat the deadline of Yahoo deleting everything. He wants to get everything in before all is lost at Yahoo. His time is worth something.
 
You all are putting the cart before the horse and making this into something that it isn't.  
 
 
 
 
-------Original Message-------
 
Date: 10/22/2019 1:35:33 PM
Subject: Re: [beta] Notice of Pricing Change
 
I don't *think* it's price gouging.... it *is* price gouging. Jacking up the price of the fee based on a high influx of demand for profit.... just like the places in Florida that charge $5 for a bottle of water during/after a hurricane.

One day is a very crappy notice.....   Considering two days ago when I started my transfer process, it was $110. There should have been a warning on that page "Hey, prices are going up on xx date!"   Doing this on a one day notice just *screams* of gouging.

So now I have to put it up to my membership to continue with the move to Groups.io, or look elsewhere.
 



--

We choose to go to the Moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard.” ― John F Kennedy


locked Re: Notice of Pricing Change

Kevin Bess KK4BFN - SM NFL
 

I was waiting for the transfer approval to go through before having to subscribe... now its double to do so.... no bueno

73,

Kevin 

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S on the Sprint Network because it's hard to carry an HF radio in your pocket!

   

On Tue, Oct 22, 2019, 4:05 PM Leeni <leeniluvsgroups@...> wrote:
Why don't you all read what the message Mark wote means.
You are all reading into it more then it says. If you have a free group it will remain free unless your membership exceeds 500 members and only then you might have to pay to host your group on the site. But he didn't say EVERYONE will have to Pay to use Groups IO.
 
If you paid $110 for the transfer - next year your use on groups IO could be free if you opt not to continue with paying for the service. Now groups that have over 500 members may have to pay. 
 
If you paid $110 for the transfer you will not be paying the higher fee that groups that just initiated the process will have to pay. It is because they are in crunch mode that the fee was made higher due to the amount of work Mark has to put in and probably due to hardware he needed to get to accommodate thousands of groups wanting to be be transferred. In no way is it equivalent to price gouging. Mark has incurred extra expenses to have all these groups come aboard at one time.   Mark has to spend a lot of extra time to beat the deadline of Yahoo deleting everything. He wants to get everything in before all is lost at Yahoo. His time is worth something.
 
You all are putting the cart before the horse and making this into something that it isn't.  
 
 
 
 
-------Original Message-------
 
Date: 10/22/2019 1:35:33 PM
Subject: Re: [beta] Notice of Pricing Change
 
I don't *think* it's price gouging.... it *is* price gouging. Jacking up the price of the fee based on a high influx of demand for profit.... just like the places in Florida that charge $5 for a bottle of water during/after a hurricane.

One day is a very crappy notice.....   Considering two days ago when I started my transfer process, it was $110. There should have been a warning on that page "Hey, prices are going up on xx date!"   Doing this on a one day notice just *screams* of gouging.

So now I have to put it up to my membership to continue with the move to Groups.io, or look elsewhere.
 


locked Re: Notice of Pricing Change

Leeni
 

Why don't you all read what the message Mark wote means.
You are all reading into it more then it says. If you have a free group it will remain free unless your membership exceeds 500 members and only then you might have to pay to host your group on the site. But he didn't say EVERYONE will have to Pay to use Groups IO.
 
If you paid $110 for the transfer - next year your use on groups IO could be free if you opt not to continue with paying for the service. Now groups that have over 500 members may have to pay. 
 
If you paid $110 for the transfer you will not be paying the higher fee that groups that just initiated the process will have to pay. It is because they are in crunch mode that the fee was made higher due to the amount of work Mark has to put in and probably due to hardware he needed to get to accommodate thousands of groups wanting to be be transferred. In no way is it equivalent to price gouging. Mark has incurred extra expenses to have all these groups come aboard at one time.   Mark has to spend a lot of extra time to beat the deadline of Yahoo deleting everything. He wants to get everything in before all is lost at Yahoo. His time is worth something.
 
You all are putting the cart before the horse and making this into something that it isn't.  
 
 
 
 

-------Original Message-------
 
Date: 10/22/2019 1:35:33 PM
Subject: Re: [beta] Notice of Pricing Change
 
I don't *think* it's price gouging.... it *is* price gouging. Jacking up the price of the fee based on a high influx of demand for profit.... just like the places in Florida that charge $5 for a bottle of water during/after a hurricane.

One day is a very crappy notice.....   Considering two days ago when I started my transfer process, it was $110. There should have been a warning on that page "Hey, prices are going up on xx date!"   Doing this on a one day notice just *screams* of gouging.

So now I have to put it up to my membership to continue with the move to Groups.io, or look elsewhere.
 


locked Re: Notice of Pricing Change

 

ps I see that my post and Mark's crossed-in-transit!   


locked Re: Notice of Pricing Change

 

Hi all,

1)  First of all, THANK YOU, Mark and helpers, for doing this deluge of work, working to transfer a billion yahoo groups before yahoo groups effectively end.

We are very happy we transferred our groups last year, and have been very happy with groups.io's performance!
I recently posted on a number of yahoo groups, hey, heads up, you can move to groups.io!  and some of them are transferring.

2)  Re price increase -- I understand that the need to expand capacity suddenly, costs a lot of money -- It's just unfortunate that you did this as a one-day surprise. 

3)  For the future -- I own a GIO group with over 3k members, teaches about cat rescue, and most of the members are pretty low income.  When you'd announced that the premium would be $110/year, I was thinking, we could do that, we obviously want groups.io to continue and flourish -- currently it's free since we transferred before, but I was thinking maybe we could go to the pay-110-a-year version.  I'm pretty sure that if I asked members to pay, it would freak a bunch of them out, often they're dealing with very stressful situations and they're trying to find money for spay-neuter, etc., most often paying for it themselves -- so, it'd be us and a couple more-involved members, chipping in, I imagine. 

As well as cat rescue groups, there are many groups around human medical issues, often those groups are the only good source of information for people with rare conditions (I have several). 

But yep, thinking about that, you'll do after dealing with the deluge!  Thanks again!

p.s. to HELEN -- thank you so much for Tanya's Feline CKD!  we've sent a zillion people to you over the years, bought your book, etc., and your work has helped us with many CKD cats. 


locked Re: Notice of Pricing Change

 

On Tue, Oct 22, 2019 at 12:24 PM Jens Yeager via Groups.Io <jens_yeager=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
I have a yahoo group transfer request already in the queue I gave the 'go ahead' yesterday.

I have been waiting to take advantage of the opportunity to have my transfer prioritized by paying the additional $200.

It is after 9AM Pacific Time, October 22 but I do not see a way to prioritize my existing transfer.

Go to https://groups.io/yahootransfer, then select your existing transfer. On that page, there should be a button to prioritize your transfer. If you don't see it, please contact me off-list and I'll investigate.

Thanks,
Mark 


locked Re: Notice of Pricing Change

 

Hi All,

Sometimes I reflect on my youth, and harken back to that simpler time, that quieter time. You know, seven days ago.

I appreciate all the feedback, and I mean ALL of it. My intention with the pricing change is solely to set up the business for long term success and to help offset the very large increase in my costs over just this past week.

I realize it was a mistake to talk about future changes to the pricing structure without actually, you know, knowing what those changes might (or might not) be. As part of that, it was a mistake to change the definition of a free group right now. I've rolled back that change; new free groups do not have limits on the number of subscribers and subgroups. Hopefully this will address Harm Selling's concern, among others. Also, this means that any groups that wish to move over but cannot afford the transfer fee can still take advantage of a free group's invite feature.

I apologize for any confusion this may have caused.

Thanks,
Mark


locked Re: Notice of Pricing Change

Jens Yeager
 

I have a yahoo group transfer request already in the queue I gave the 'go ahead' yesterday.

I have been waiting to take advantage of the opportunity to have my transfer prioritized by paying the additional $200.

It is after 9AM Pacific Time, October 22 but I do not see a way to prioritize my existing transfer.

Thanks,
Jens


locked Re: Notice of Pricing Change

Mike Dobbs
 

I'm new here and in the same boat as lots of Yahoo forum users. Yesterday I just started requesting donations from my Yahoo group members to defray the premium membership fee for this site. Now I need ot go explain to them the fee will be double. I understand the need for this. But I'd like to understand a few things. What happens after the one year premium comes up for renewal and we're over the 1GB free membership level? Do we then have to go back to all the users and beg for another donation? 

Can we not have some kind of direct-to-member billing cycle rather than the group owner being the one to have to cover the payment and then seek donations from the user base? That way everybody pays at the same rate, no matter how many users are in a group. 


locked Re: Notice of Pricing Change

Sarah k Alawami
 

I personally don't think it is. I jack up my prices at will without warning, that is, the next time a user went to my page before I took it down due to some domain issues, I would just let them know the price got hiked 30 seconds ago. My users are used to it and know it will happen every few years.

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website. This is also our libsyn page as well.

to subscribe to the feed click here

Our telegram channel is also a good place for an announce only in regard to podcasts, contests, etc.

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on youtube, twitch and mixer. Thanks Restream staff.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 22 Oct 2019, at 11:25, Kevin Bess KK4BFN - SM NFL wrote:

I don't *think* it's price gouging.... it *is* price gouging. Jacking up the price of the fee based on a high influx of demand for profit.... just like the places in Florida that charge $5 for a bottle of water during/after a hurricane.

One day is a very crappy notice.....   Considering two days ago when I started my transfer process, it was $110. There should have been a warning on that page "Hey, prices are going up on xx date!"   Doing this on a one day notice just *screams* of gouging.

So now I have to put it up to my membership to continue with the move to Groups.io, or look elsewhere.


locked Re: Notice of Pricing Change

Kevin Bess KK4BFN - SM NFL
 

I don't *think* it's price gouging.... it *is* price gouging. Jacking up the price of the fee based on a high influx of demand for profit.... just like the places in Florida that charge $5 for a bottle of water during/after a hurricane.

One day is a very crappy notice.....   Considering two days ago when I started my transfer process, it was $110. There should have been a warning on that page "Hey, prices are going up on xx date!"   Doing this on a one day notice just *screams* of gouging.

So now I have to put it up to my membership to continue with the move to Groups.io, or look elsewhere.


locked Re: Notice of Pricing Change

Sarah k Alawami
 

I understand it clearly, I still don't see your issue. The contract looks valid from here. Again if you don't like the change you can leave after your year is up if you canceled.

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website. This is also our libsyn page as well.

to subscribe to the feed click here

Our telegram channel is also a good place for an announce only in regard to podcasts, contests, etc.

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on youtube, twitch and mixer. Thanks Restream staff.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 22 Oct 2019, at 11:10, Harm Selling wrote:

How difficult is it to understand the last part of the text:

"For the transfer, we ask that you sign up for the Premium Yearly plan (you can downgrade to free after a year if you wish)".

 

????

---

Harm Selling

 

Van: main@beta.groups.io <main@beta.groups.io> Namens Sarah k Alawami
Verzonden: dinsdag 22 oktober 2019 20:07
Aan: main@beta.groups.io
Onderwerp: Re: [beta] Notice of Pricing Change

 

Actually you do pay next year, so I really don't see the issue. It's 110 dollars or how much it is now every year. If you don't like the change then there's the door, but I personally again don't see an issue.

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website. This is also our libsyn page as well.

to subscribe to the feed click here

Our telegram channel is also a good place for an announce only in regard to podcasts, contests, etc.

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on youtube, twitch and mixer. Thanks Restream staff.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 22 Oct 2019, at 11:03, Harm Selling wrote:

But next year it would be free, according to the information on the website, not undecided…. that's the point.

You cannot change the rules after an agreement.

---

Harm Selling

 

Van: main@beta.groups.io <main@beta.groups.io> Namens Duane
Verzonden: dinsdag 22 oktober 2019 19:58
Aan: main@beta.groups.io
Onderwerp: Re: [beta] Notice of Pricing Change

 

On Tue, Oct 22, 2019 at 12:35 PM, Harm Selling wrote:

So I'd like to get the confirmation  if this appointment keeps still in effect.... now and In the future.

You won't need to pay any more for the upgrade you did.  Next year is still undecided.

Duane


locked Re: Notice of Pricing Change

Sarah k Alawami
 

Actually you do pay next year, so I really don't see the issue. It's 110 dollars or how much it is now every year. If you don't like the change then there's the door, but I personally again don't see an issue.

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website. This is also our libsyn page as well.

to subscribe to the feed click here

Our telegram channel is also a good place for an announce only in regard to podcasts, contests, etc.

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on youtube, twitch and mixer. Thanks Restream staff.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 22 Oct 2019, at 11:03, Harm Selling wrote:

But next year it would be free, according to the information on the website, not undecided…. that's the point.

You cannot change the rules after an agreement.

---

Harm Selling

 

Van: main@beta.groups.io <main@beta.groups.io> Namens Duane
Verzonden: dinsdag 22 oktober 2019 19:58
Aan: main@beta.groups.io
Onderwerp: Re: [beta] Notice of Pricing Change

 

On Tue, Oct 22, 2019 at 12:35 PM, Harm Selling wrote:

So I'd like to get the confirmation  if this appointment keeps still in effect.... now and In the future.

You won't need to pay any more for the upgrade you did.  Next year is still undecided.

Duane

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