For general Groups.io questions, please see the Group Managers Forum and Group_Help groups. Note: those groups are volunteer-led and are not officially run by Groups.io.
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Re: delete old messages
On Wed, Sep 25, 2019 at 04:00 AM, Chris Jones wrote:
the right to be forgotten relates to data about a person, not things they have posted on Groups.io or other social media.Exactly. Not to mention that users explicitly grant groups.io the right to post their content forever. Coming from the other side of the discussion, this is why - and we've been through this argument/discussion many times before - I think group owners should be allowed to disable message deletion by members. IANAL but it's easy reading to see that Groups.io is under no legal obligation to delete user content, whether the user ask for the deletion or not, whether they've left a group or not, or under any other circumstances. Groups.io would be under legal obligation to remove personal information *about* users posted by *other* users, if the posted-about user requests the deletion. -- J Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
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Re: delete old messages
And of course all those posts are in countless email inboxes and web
mail of which groups.io and moderators have no control. It is totally impossible. Dave On 25 Sep 2019 at 4:00, Chris Jones via Groups.Io wrote: Now (like Mark) IANAL, and the material in the link is a News Bulletin http://davesergeant.com
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Re: delete old messages
Chris Jones
On Wed, Sep 25, 2019 at 03:26 AM, Ken Schweizer included this link:
https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-49808208Now (like Mark) IANAL, and the material in the link is a News Bulletin not "Qualified Legal Opinion", but taken at face value the right to be forgotten relates to data about a person, not things they have posted on Groups.io or other social media. As such they would have no right to assume or expect that such material can or will be deleted on request, and of course while material they have originated might be deleted, where that material is quoted by others those quotations and their attribution will remain firmly in place. As recently mentioned on the GMF subscribers can delete their own posts unhindered, so I would suggest that anyone wishing to have their posts deleted should be encouraged to set about doing it themselves. As far as I can see there is no reason for believing that a group owner or moderator must trawl through message archives removing posts submitted by any named individual just because they ask for it to be done. I see no reason for an owner or moderator to make a rod for their own back. Chris
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Re: delete old messages
It appears that the EU agrees with you although I would have preferred they hadn't sided with Google.
Ken
2Ch 7:14 “If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from
heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.”
From: main@beta.groups.io [mailto:main@beta.groups.io]
On Behalf Of Mark Fletcher
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:49 PM To: main@beta.groups.io Subject: Re: [beta] delete old messages
On Tue, Sep 24, 2019 at 2:36 PM Frances <frances@...> wrote:
We don't currently have this function.
This was a scenario I discussed with my GDPR lawyers back when I was going through this. From what I remember, it was basically that the law was a bit unclear but that my lawyers interpreted it as I did not have to delete someone's messages in a group when they deleted their account. It's impractical to be able to remove all traces of someone who has participated in a discussion group.
IANAL and all that...
Mark
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Re: delete old messages
On Tue, Sep 24, 2019 at 2:36 PM Frances <frances@...> wrote: When there is a turnover of a Board, for example, it would be useful to delete chitchat from previous members. We don't currently have this function. I have been wondering too about the GDPR - "The GDPR is the most comprehensive EU data privacy law in decades, and went into effect on May 25, 2018." I can export my account. Couldn't that be linked to a delete function? This was a scenario I discussed with my GDPR lawyers back when I was going through this. From what I remember, it was basically that the law was a bit unclear but that my lawyers interpreted it as I did not have to delete someone's messages in a group when they deleted their account. It's impractical to be able to remove all traces of someone who has participated in a discussion group. IANAL and all that... Mark
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Re: delete old messages
When there is a turnover of a Board, for example, it would be useful to delete chitchat from previous members.
I have been wondering too about the GDPR - "The GDPR is the most comprehensive EU data privacy law in decades, and went into effect on May 25, 2018." I can export my account. Couldn't that be linked to a delete function? Or perhaps Delete My Account could do that. https://groups.io/static/compliance Frances
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Re: delete old messages
Chris Jones
On Tue, Sep 24, 2019 at 09:06 PM, Anita L wrote:
How can i delete all of her messages in a bulk delete? It is very time consuming to delete one by one.Is there any real need to do this? (If so, what is it?) Chris
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Re: notification on update
This is something I requested a few weeks ago, so I'm pleased to get support
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
for the idea. I could manage, as a definitely second best, but desirable anyway, if the date shown against files in the file listing were changed from the date first uploaded to the date of the latest update, especially if the list could then be sorted on that field. Jim
On 23 Sep 2019 at 15:28, Glenn Glazer wrote:
When we upload a file, there is a checkbox for notifying the list. There --
http://jimellame.tumblr.com - My thoughts on freedom (needs updating) http://jimella.wordpress.com - political snippets, especially economic policy http://jimella.livejournal.com - misc. snippets, some political, some not Forget Google! I search with https://duckduckgo.com which doesn't spy on you
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delete old messages
I have a member who left. How can i delete all of her messages in a bulk delete? It is very time consuming to delete one by one.
Thanks Anita
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notification on update
Glenn Glazer
When we upload a file, there is a checkbox for notifying the list.
There is not one on the update window. Would it be possible to add
this checkbox and accompanying notification so that I can let
members know when I've updated our files?
As a use case, we have meeting agendas that we upload and often go through a few revisions before the actual meeting. Best, Glenn --
We must work to make the Democratic Party the Marketplace of Ideas not the Marketplace of Favors.
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Allow more flexible controls of who can create, edit, and delete
#suggestion
So it has happened again. A moderator in my group has deleted a database. It would be very helpful if we could have a more robust set of controls for moderators. When using BigTent, I could set each moderator's permissions for each area of the group and subgroups. Most of the people in my group who have moderator status only need it so they and create events and databases, we don't want them to be able to edit or delete other people's work, only their own.
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Re: Question about promoting group on FB page
The FB integration here is one way, from FB to your group, and then only from a public page.
BTW, this group is intended "to discuss the Groups.io service and how it can be improved during our beta period", not general help questions. As noted on this group's home page, "For general Groups.io questions, please see the groups Group Managers Forum and the Group_Help group. Note: these groups are volunteer-led and are not officially run by Groups.io." Duane
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Question about promoting group on FB page
desireehedberg <desiree@...>
I have created a FB page for our group, and there are a lot of members on their that I'd like to see using the Groups.io too, however; when I try to "Promote to Facebook", it will only let me post to my group under my personal FB profile, and there is not option to use my business page profile (which doesn't have a picture of my kids, so I'm sure you see my dilemma). I'm sure I'm just missing it - but does anyone know how to do a Promote to Facebook under my other FB profile? Facebook usually gives me a choice, but not in this instance. What am I missing?
Thanks in advance for the help! Desiree
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Site updates
#changelog
Changes to the site this week:
Have a good weekend everyone. Mark
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Re: Messages to +owner being wrongly routed to the whole group
Dave Wade
Chris,
I don’t find that odd at all. I also suspect that because of the way the “btinternet.com” address space is split that the result when sending from webmail may vary depending on which provider is servicing the mail. I am pretty sure some users are still on the Yahoo server. There are also “btopenworld.com” and perhaps still some “talk21.net” addresses. I would also say, from experience that several web-mail based e-mail clients don’t understand that rules for the left had side of the “@” so the user portion are different to the RHS or domain portion. GMAIL allows me to ad “+” and an arbitrary string to my e-mail address, which is useful for tracking address leakage, but often its rejected as “invalid” when putting it in forms.
Dave
From: main@beta.groups.io <main@beta.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris Jones via Groups.Io
Sent: 20 September 2019 12:21 To: main@beta.groups.io Subject: Re: [beta] Messages to +owner being wrongly routed to the whole group
On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 10:58 AM, Dave Wade wrote:
In the group I moderate (>2100 Subscribers) 182 have btinternet.com addresses and a further 8 have btconnect.com one.
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Re: Messages to +owner being wrongly routed to the whole group
Chris Jones
On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 10:58 AM, Dave Wade wrote:
...as far as I can tell it has around 10 million customers….In the group I moderate (>2100 Subscribers) 182 have btinternet.com addresses and a further 8 have btconnect.com one. Dave w also wrote: … I suspect you have as much chance of getting it fixed as you have of getting Schrodinger’s cat to the moon dead and alive…. I suspect that is certainly true if we have to go via the normal "call centre" route. :( In this case Peter has gone via the "BT Community" from which the matter has (reportedly) been escalated. The odd thing is that if a (btinternet) email is sent to a Groups.io "+" address from an email client then the + and what follows up to the @ is stripped off and the email is misrouted to the Topics page*. If, however, the same email is sent from BT Mail's web UI then it is routed correctly to whatever is after the +. I don't know if similar mishaps arise if the originating address is btconnect; I know of one Subscriber who has such an address so I might ask him if he could try a test message or two. * If the Sub happens to be unmoderated then of course the message appears immediately. Chris
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Re: Messages to +owner being wrongly routed to the whole group
Dave Wade
Duane, One would hope so except It’s the UK equivalent of Ma Bell so its history is that it was the national government telephony provider. As such it created the rules as steps to prevent other competing. I believe it sees its dominant position and breaking the rules as a way to mess with (foo bar) the competition. It has a history of behaving badly e.g.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-13015194
its e-mail system is a total mess having originally been outsourced Yahoo and now the load is split between Yahoo and a German (I think) provider and frequently goes astray:-
Much of the support based in India. A quick google on “BT Indian call centre” will show the problems people have… … I suspect you have as much chance of getting it fixed as you have of getting Schrodinger’s cat to the moon dead and alive….
Dave G4UGM
From: main@beta.groups.io <main@beta.groups.io> On Behalf Of Duane
Sent: 20 September 2019 11:21 To: main@beta.groups.io Subject: Re: [beta] Messages to +owner being wrongly routed to the whole group
On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 04:58 AM, Dave Wade wrote:
I would think a provider of that size would follow the RFCs.
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Re: Messages to +owner being wrongly routed to the whole group
On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 04:58 AM, Dave Wade wrote:
it’s the biggest UK mail provider, and as far as I can tell it has around 10 million customersI would think a provider of that size would follow the RFCs. Duane
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Re: Messages to +owner being wrongly routed to the whole group
Dave Wade
Chris,
Yes it’s a single UK provider, however it’s the biggest UK mail provider, and as far as I can tell it has around 10 million customers….
Dave
From: main@beta.groups.io <main@beta.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris Jones via Groups.Io
Sent: 20 September 2019 09:48 To: main@beta.groups.io Subject: Re: [beta] Messages to +owner being wrongly routed to the whole group
On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 07:41 AM, Peter Martinez wrote:
I was involved in some of the original investigation into this phenomenon, but I genuinely believe that changing the format of Groups.io email addresses is not the way to go, at least for the moment.
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Re: Messages to +owner being wrongly routed to the whole group
Chris Jones
On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 07:41 AM, Peter Martinez wrote:
So lets switch from a + to a dot.I was involved in some of the original investigation into this phenomenon, but I genuinely believe that changing the format of Groups.io email addresses is not the way to go, at least for the moment. While it would probably be easy for Mark to implement any such change, that change would impact on any / all Groups.io Subscribers who have or may have the current address format in their contacts lists, and I do not see that as acceptable unless it really cannot be avoided, and in my view it is far too early so say that such a change is unavoidable. Furthermore, such a change would (IMHO) be a violation of the Principle of Least Astonishment. Having said that, although the problem is not one of Mark's creation he might be better placed than any one of us to tackle Synchronoss with the aim of getting that organisation to ensure that their traffic - handling is compliant with the agreed standard. To continue the motoring analogy, driving around the pothole is all very well as a short - term fix, but does nothing to address the fact that the pothole shouldn't be there is the first place. Circumvent the pothole and before long there will be a second pothole to navigate, and then a third and so on. In other words an unaddressed problem is more likely to spread; it certainly won't repair itself. What happens when the next service - provider non - compliance arises? Find another work - around? Mark; if by any chance you are willing to tackle BT / Synchronoss about this incorrect handling of traffic please let us know and one of us can post the exact details of when this problem arises and when it does not, because the current understanding is that it affects end users who are customers of a single (UK) Mail Service Provider, but even then under a single set of circumstances, albeit a very common set. As Peter has noted previously there is reason to believe (hope!) that some details are working their way through to that MSP (BT) but with no certainty of a satisfactory outcome. Chris
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