Date   

moderated Re: Sending messages as +owner #suggestion

Gerald Boutin <groupsio@...>
 

Actually, my question was rhetorical. I am saying that a Moderator does not have the ability to change what Owner messages they receive unless they have the "Set Moderator Privileges". There may be some other combination I am not aware of, or Mark may have granted you super-powers, but here is what I see when I tested.

I tested with two different accounts, each in their own browser. I made certain to refresh the browser view after I made a change in the other browser.

Here are the views of the Moderator's privileges as seen by the Owner (left) and the Moderator (right). Note that the Moderator 's view(right side) does not have any option to change the setting to view Owner's email .



Here are the Owners (left) and Moderator's (right) view of the setting with the "Set Moderator Privileges" enabled. Now, the Moderator can change the settings.



--
Gerald


On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 04:44 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
No.
 

On Aug 13, 2019, at 12:41 PM, Gerald Boutin <groupsio@...> wrote:


On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 08:38 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
If that's truly the case
I just verified that this is the case and think it needs to be fixed. I myself am a mod in one group where apparently the owner didn't want me receiving owner emails and checked "none" for that. Yet I can go into my subscription and change it so that I get them. I strongly feel that this is not right, or at least is misleading to the group owner, who is given the impression they can control it. It should either be changed so that only the owner can control it, or make it clear that the owner does not control it, and preferably the former.
 
--
J

 

Not so fast. Did the Owner give you the "Set Moderators Privileges" permission? If you have that, then as a Moderator you can change your setting for receiving Owner emails. In fact, as that Moderator, you can also change the Owner's settings too.
 
--
Gerald


moderated Re: the fix to including sigs in text went too far ?

 

I think the only change should be to enclose the quote in ellipses only if it’s the the whole prior message quoted at the top or, alternatively, enclose just the sig in ellipses if the quote, whatever it consists of, is at the top. I would not want other cases of quotes at the top to disappear. That would defeat deliberate quoting and answering.


On Aug 13, 2019, at 4:02 PM, Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@...> wrote:

I do as well, which is why I don't. It is easier for me to read a short message and not a fully quoted thread.

Take care

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website. This is also our libsyn page as well.
For stuff we sell, mac training materials and  tutorials go here.
and for hosting options go here
to subscribe to the feed click here

Our telegram channel is also a good place for an announce only in regard to podcasts, contests, etc.

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on youtube, twitch and mixer. Thanks Restream staff.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 13 Aug 2019, at 15:46, J_Catlady wrote:

If the responder uses a short quote, as I just did in the last message, then it’s like question-answer. But not if they quote the entire previous message *at the top*, including the signature. This just does not work. In emails, you’re used to seeing the prior message in it’s entirety at the bottom. When you see an entire message at the top, complete with sig, you think *that* is the message. St least, I do.


On Aug 13, 2019, at 3:26 PM, J_Catlady via Groups.Io <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 02:51 PM, Duane wrote:
As it is now, it's like a question (quote) and answer (reply).
But it's nearly impossible to parse that way on a phone. (On the web, it looks completely different.)
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: the fix to including sigs in text went too far ?

Sarah k Alawami
 

I'd say give that a try and see how we like it. Sounds good to me.

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website. This is also our libsyn page as well.
For stuff we sell, mac training materials and  tutorials go here.
and for hosting options go here
to subscribe to the feed click here

Our telegram channel is also a good place for an announce only in regard to podcasts, contests, etc.

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on youtube, twitch and mixer. Thanks Restream staff.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 13 Aug 2019, at 16:01, Shal Farley wrote:

Mark,


Should we collapse quoted parts in this case as well (ie. only one quoted part and it appears at the top of the message)?

I vote yes, given that reading in Topic mode is mostly the default and in that mode the quote duplicates the (or a) message above it. Even for Message mode, opening the ... is no problem.

In Digests eliding a top quote would present no different difficulties than does the current practice of eliding a bottom-quote. Both easily solved by clicking View/Reply Online in the message footer, assuming you're willing to be logged in or it is a group with Public archives.

Shal


moderated Re: the fix to including sigs in text went too far ?

Sarah k Alawami
 

I do as well, which is why I don't. It is easier for me to read a short message and not a fully quoted thread.

Take care

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website. This is also our libsyn page as well.
For stuff we sell, mac training materials and  tutorials go here.
and for hosting options go here
to subscribe to the feed click here

Our telegram channel is also a good place for an announce only in regard to podcasts, contests, etc.

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on youtube, twitch and mixer. Thanks Restream staff.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 13 Aug 2019, at 15:46, J_Catlady wrote:

If the responder uses a short quote, as I just did in the last message, then it’s like question-answer. But not if they quote the entire previous message *at the top*, including the signature. This just does not work. In emails, you’re used to seeing the prior message in it’s entirety at the bottom. When you see an entire message at the top, complete with sig, you think *that* is the message. St least, I do.


On Aug 13, 2019, at 3:26 PM, J_Catlady via Groups.Io <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 02:51 PM, Duane wrote:
As it is now, it's like a question (quote) and answer (reply).
But it's nearly impossible to parse that way on a phone. (On the web, it looks completely different.)
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: the fix to including sigs in text went too far ?

 

Mark,


Should we collapse quoted parts in this case as well (ie. only one quoted part and it appears at the top of the message)?

I vote yes, given that reading in Topic mode is mostly the default and in that mode the quote duplicates the (or a) message above it. Even for Message mode, opening the ... is no problem.

In Digests eliding a top quote would present no different difficulties than does the current practice of eliding a bottom-quote. Both easily solved by clicking View/Reply Online in the message footer, assuming you're willing to be logged in or it is a group with Public archives.

Shal


moderated Re: the fix to including sigs in text went too far ?

 

If the responder uses a short quote, as I just did in the last message, then it’s like question-answer. But not if they quote the entire previous message *at the top*, including the signature. This just does not work. In emails, you’re used to seeing the prior message in it’s entirety at the bottom. When you see an entire message at the top, complete with sig, you think *that* is the message. St least, I do.


On Aug 13, 2019, at 3:26 PM, J_Catlady via Groups.Io <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 02:51 PM, Duane wrote:
As it is now, it's like a question (quote) and answer (reply).
But it's nearly impossible to parse that way on a phone. (On the web, it looks completely different.)
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: the fix to including sigs in text went too far ?

 

On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 02:51 PM, Duane wrote:
As it is now, it's like a question (quote) and answer (reply).
But it's nearly impossible to parse that way on a phone. (On the web, it looks completely different.)
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: the fix to including sigs in text went too far ?

 

On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 03:24 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
maybe they should report
typo - repost
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: the fix to including sigs in text went too far ?

 

On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 02:15 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
Are you referring to this message
Yes, that's the message (and there are others like it frequently). It's hard to read on a phone. Several times I've almost emailed back to say that the message is empty, maybe they should report, etc. Then, belatedly, I look below the sig and find the content.

Should we collapse quoted parts in this case as well (ie. only one quoted part and it appears at the top of the message)?

I think so, yes.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: the fix to including sigs in text went too far ?

Sarah k Alawami
 

Iv'e ben notocing that for the past while now. I thought it was just me.

Take care

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website. This is also our libsyn page as well.
For stuff we sell, mac training materials and  tutorials go here.
and for hosting options go here
to subscribe to the feed click here

Our telegram channel is also a good place for an announce only in regard to podcasts, contests, etc.

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on youtube, twitch and mixer. Thanks Restream staff.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 13 Aug 2019, at 14:14, Mark Fletcher wrote:

On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 1:57 PM J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:
I'm noticing that after the fix to not wrap signatures into ellipses, there will often be a message (like Gerald's in the previous thread) where the entire prior message is quoted at the top, *including the signature*, making the reply look as though it's empty. This seems to be happening frequently. Often I'll read what seems to be a reply to a message, but can't find the reply. It just looks like a repeat of the entire previous message. The reason is that my brain stops scanning for content after seeing a signature.

Are you referring to this message: https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/21883

Currently, we only collapse quoted parts if the quoted part appears at the end (ie. the person top posted). Should we collapse quoted parts in this case as well (ie. only one quoted part and it appears at the top of the message)?

Thanks,
Mark


moderated Re: the fix to including sigs in text went too far ?

Duane
 

On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 04:15 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
Should we collapse quoted parts in this case as well (ie. only one quoted part and it appears at the top of the message)?
I wouldn't want to see it operate that way.  As it is now, it's like a question (quote) and answer (reply).

Thanks,
Duane


moderated Re: the fix to including sigs in text went too far ?

 

On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 1:57 PM J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:
I'm noticing that after the fix to not wrap signatures into ellipses, there will often be a message (like Gerald's in the previous thread) where the entire prior message is quoted at the top, *including the signature*, making the reply look as though it's empty. This seems to be happening frequently. Often I'll read what seems to be a reply to a message, but can't find the reply. It just looks like a repeat of the entire previous message. The reason is that my brain stops scanning for content after seeing a signature.

Are you referring to this message: https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/21883

Currently, we only collapse quoted parts if the quoted part appears at the end (ie. the person top posted). Should we collapse quoted parts in this case as well (ie. only one quoted part and it appears at the top of the message)?

Thanks,
Mark


moderated the fix to including sigs in text went too far ?

 

I'm noticing that after the fix to not wrap signatures into ellipses, there will often be a message (like Gerald's in the previous thread) where the entire prior message is quoted at the top, *including the signature*, making the reply look as though it's empty. This seems to be happening frequently. Often I'll read what seems to be a reply to a message, but can't find the reply. It just looks like a repeat of the entire previous message. The reason is that my brain stops scanning for content after seeing a signature.

If the signature could be left out when the entire prior message is quoted at the top of a reply, that would be helpful.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Sending messages as +owner #suggestion

 

On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 01:41 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
There’s also a request floating around somewhere to make moderator access to the Owner Messages page subject to explicit permission
Actually I think it's to make access to the Notes page overall subject to explicit permission. That would obviously include Owner Messages. But yes, this is OT. Maybe I'll start a new topic.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Sending messages as +owner #suggestion

 

Shal,
In the sense that all mods can see a member’s Owner Messages page, you are right. They both specify how information is received, not *which* information is received. There’s also a request floating around somewhere to make moderator access to the Owner Messages page subject to explicit permission by group owners. This problem or issue goes along with that. Both email receipt of, and access to the page for, owner messages I think should be made a specific mod permission. They would go hand in hand.


On Aug 13, 2019, at 1:34 PM, Shal Farley <shals2nd@...> wrote:

J,


If that's truly the case I just verified that this is the case and think it needs to be fixed.

 
We're off topic for the OP, but for the record I disagree.

I think the moderator's Owner Email option to receive +owner messages or not should remain a subscription option, equivalent to their Notifications checkboxes or for that matter to their Email Delivery option to receive group messages or not. That is, I think shared control (either the subject mod or an owner can change it) is wholly appropriate.

Shal


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Sending messages as +owner #suggestion

 

J,


If that's truly the case I just verified that this is the case and think it needs to be fixed.

 
We're off topic for the OP, but for the record I disagree.

I think the moderator's Owner Email option to receive +owner messages or not should remain a subscription option, equivalent to their Notifications checkboxes or for that matter to their Email Delivery option to receive group messages or not. That is, I think shared control (either the subject mod or an owner can change it) is wholly appropriate.

Shal


moderated Re: Sending messages as +owner #suggestion

 

No.


On Aug 13, 2019, at 12:41 PM, Gerald Boutin <groupsio@...> wrote:

On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 01:15 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 08:38 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
If that's truly the case
I just verified that this is the case and think it needs to be fixed. I myself am a mod in one group where apparently the owner didn't want me receiving owner emails and checked "none" for that. Yet I can go into my subscription and change it so that I get them. I strongly feel that this is not right, or at least is misleading to the group owner, who is given the impression they can control it. It should either be changed so that only the owner can control it, or make it clear that the owner does not control it, and preferably the former.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

Not so fast. Did the Owner give you the "Set Moderators Privileges" permission? If you have that, then as a Moderator you can change your setting for receiving Owner emails. In fact, as that Moderator, you can also change the Owner's settings too.
 
--
Gerald

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Sending messages as +owner #suggestion

Gerald Boutin <groupsio@...>
 

On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 01:15 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 08:38 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
If that's truly the case
I just verified that this is the case and think it needs to be fixed. I myself am a mod in one group where apparently the owner didn't want me receiving owner emails and checked "none" for that. Yet I can go into my subscription and change it so that I get them. I strongly feel that this is not right, or at least is misleading to the group owner, who is given the impression they can control it. It should either be changed so that only the owner can control it, or make it clear that the owner does not control it, and preferably the former.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

Not so fast. Did the Owner give you the "Set Moderators Privileges" permission? If you have that, then as a Moderator you can change your setting for receiving Owner emails. In fact, as that Moderator, you can also change the Owner's settings too.
 
--
Gerald


moderated Re: Sending messages as +owner #suggestion

 

On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 08:38 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
If that's truly the case
I just verified that this is the case and think it needs to be fixed. I myself am a mod in one group where apparently the owner didn't want me receiving owner emails and checked "none" for that. Yet I can go into my subscription and change it so that I get them. I strongly feel that this is not right, or at least is misleading to the group owner, who is given the impression they can control it. It should either be changed so that only the owner can control it, or make it clear that the owner does not control it, and preferably the former.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Sending messages as +owner #suggestion

 

On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 07:07 AM, Bruce Bowman wrote:
The same Moderator can, at any time, click on Subscription on the left-side menu bar and turn his +owner emails back on. 
If that's truly the case (I was not sure whether it was), I find this problematic. The group owner, not the mods themselves, should be the only one allowed to set the mods' receiving of owner emails. There may be mods I don't want receiving owner emails. I was only dimly aware before this thread that mods themselves could set themselves up to receive or not receive owner emails, but was not sure and was hoping I was wrong. If this is the case, I think it needs to be remedied so that the receiving of owner emails is treated as a permission to be granted or not granted by a group owner.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

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