Date   

moderated Re: Sending messages as +owner #suggestion

 

Shal,
In the sense that all mods can see a member’s Owner Messages page, you are right. They both specify how information is received, not *which* information is received. There’s also a request floating around somewhere to make moderator access to the Owner Messages page subject to explicit permission by group owners. This problem or issue goes along with that. Both email receipt of, and access to the page for, owner messages I think should be made a specific mod permission. They would go hand in hand.


On Aug 13, 2019, at 1:34 PM, Shal Farley <shals2nd@...> wrote:

J,


If that's truly the case I just verified that this is the case and think it needs to be fixed.

 
We're off topic for the OP, but for the record I disagree.

I think the moderator's Owner Email option to receive +owner messages or not should remain a subscription option, equivalent to their Notifications checkboxes or for that matter to their Email Delivery option to receive group messages or not. That is, I think shared control (either the subject mod or an owner can change it) is wholly appropriate.

Shal


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Sending messages as +owner #suggestion

 

J,


If that's truly the case I just verified that this is the case and think it needs to be fixed.

 
We're off topic for the OP, but for the record I disagree.

I think the moderator's Owner Email option to receive +owner messages or not should remain a subscription option, equivalent to their Notifications checkboxes or for that matter to their Email Delivery option to receive group messages or not. That is, I think shared control (either the subject mod or an owner can change it) is wholly appropriate.

Shal


moderated Re: Sending messages as +owner #suggestion

 

No.


On Aug 13, 2019, at 12:41 PM, Gerald Boutin <groupsio@...> wrote:

On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 01:15 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 08:38 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
If that's truly the case
I just verified that this is the case and think it needs to be fixed. I myself am a mod in one group where apparently the owner didn't want me receiving owner emails and checked "none" for that. Yet I can go into my subscription and change it so that I get them. I strongly feel that this is not right, or at least is misleading to the group owner, who is given the impression they can control it. It should either be changed so that only the owner can control it, or make it clear that the owner does not control it, and preferably the former.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

Not so fast. Did the Owner give you the "Set Moderators Privileges" permission? If you have that, then as a Moderator you can change your setting for receiving Owner emails. In fact, as that Moderator, you can also change the Owner's settings too.
 
--
Gerald

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Sending messages as +owner #suggestion

Gerald Boutin <groupsio@...>
 

On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 01:15 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 08:38 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
If that's truly the case
I just verified that this is the case and think it needs to be fixed. I myself am a mod in one group where apparently the owner didn't want me receiving owner emails and checked "none" for that. Yet I can go into my subscription and change it so that I get them. I strongly feel that this is not right, or at least is misleading to the group owner, who is given the impression they can control it. It should either be changed so that only the owner can control it, or make it clear that the owner does not control it, and preferably the former.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

Not so fast. Did the Owner give you the "Set Moderators Privileges" permission? If you have that, then as a Moderator you can change your setting for receiving Owner emails. In fact, as that Moderator, you can also change the Owner's settings too.
 
--
Gerald


moderated Re: Sending messages as +owner #suggestion

 

On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 08:38 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
If that's truly the case
I just verified that this is the case and think it needs to be fixed. I myself am a mod in one group where apparently the owner didn't want me receiving owner emails and checked "none" for that. Yet I can go into my subscription and change it so that I get them. I strongly feel that this is not right, or at least is misleading to the group owner, who is given the impression they can control it. It should either be changed so that only the owner can control it, or make it clear that the owner does not control it, and preferably the former.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Sending messages as +owner #suggestion

 

On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 07:07 AM, Bruce Bowman wrote:
The same Moderator can, at any time, click on Subscription on the left-side menu bar and turn his +owner emails back on. 
If that's truly the case (I was not sure whether it was), I find this problematic. The group owner, not the mods themselves, should be the only one allowed to set the mods' receiving of owner emails. There may be mods I don't want receiving owner emails. I was only dimly aware before this thread that mods themselves could set themselves up to receive or not receive owner emails, but was not sure and was hoping I was wrong. If this is the case, I think it needs to be remedied so that the receiving of owner emails is treated as a permission to be granted or not granted by a group owner.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Sending messages as +owner #suggestion

Bruce Bowman
 

On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 04:14 AM, Andy W wrote:
When sending a message to a member via the Directory the default From address for a Moderator is group+owner@...  If the Moderator is not set to receive owner emails, they should not (by default at least) have the option to send emails from the owner address.
I generally support the idea that the drop-down menu should omit the +owner address if Owner Email is currently set to None. 

Two clarifications:
  • The +owner email setting is a preference, not a permission. The same Moderator can, at any time, click on Subscription on the left-side menu bar and turn his +owner emails back on. 
  • The same thing can happen when someone sends a message via the Member List. If this issue is really an issue, the remedy needs to be applied in both locations.
Regards,
Bruce


moderated Sending messages as +owner #suggestion

Andy Wedge
 

When sending a message to a member via the Directory the default From address for a Moderator is group+owner@...  If the Moderator is not set to receive owner emails, they should not (by default at least) have the option to send emails from the owner address.

Andy


Re: Members Removed for Marking Messages as spam AUTO-Message suggested modification

 

typo, disingenuous 


On Aug 12, 2019, at 12:11 PM, J_Olivia Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

Agree with Bob. There are enough cases of spam-removed members not having received the resubscribe link that it’s ingenuous to reassure or surmise that the resubscribe email might be somehow different and reach these members even though group emails don’t.


On Aug 12, 2019, at 11:44 AM, Bob Bellizzi <cdfexec@...> wrote:

Shal,
My point is that we can't rely on the message to the member that is sent after the spam marking.
Providing the Owners with the appropriate and unique automatic rejoin link would all us the option to alert the (ex)subscriber
if we were so inclined.
In the last month we had 4 dropped via spam and none were recovered 
2 were Yahoo
1 was sbcglobal
1 was bellsouth
In the previous month only 1 was recovered and that was not a domain hosted by Yahoo/Verizon as this months' 4 were.

--

Bob Bellizzi


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Re: Members Removed for Marking Messages as spam AUTO-Message suggested modification

Bob Bellizzi
 

On Mon, Aug 12, 2019 at 12:51 PM, Shal Farley wrote: 
In my groups (not counting GMF) I believe I'm 2 for 2 recovered on their own, with no prompting or instruction from me. But that's way too small a sample to be meaningful.
I doubt your sample would be as valid as a non-technical group's.I set up a unique Rejoined mailbox soon after 
set up the function.I ca easily provide stats for most any period since then.

"I do think there's a technical problem with your suggestion in terms of assuring that only the member in question uses the link. Absent that assurance Mark may as well give owners a control to re-instate the member unilaterally. But that's a decision for Mark to make."
 
You are making assumptions here;  So pMY assumption is that Mark was smarter than that and that the link must be executed on the SUBSCRIBER's device.

If a Premium or higher owner/Moderator wished to bypass needing the link thy could,given the necessary permission level,
simply re-direct subscribe the subscriber.

-- x

Bob Bellizzi


moderated Re: Hello

 

On Mon, Aug 12, 2019 at 7:29 AM Fabien <theboxcarchildren10@...> wrote:
 Hello, I was recommended this group, and also someone forward me a message about that there may be an app for groups.io.  Any idea when this will happen?

Working on it now. I've hired a consulting firm to do the work, because I don't know the technology, and I'm working with them daily on it. I don't yet have a launch date, however.

In the meantime, the website is responsive and perfectly usable on mobile.

Thanks,
Mark 


Re: Members Removed for Marking Messages as spam AUTO-Message suggested modification

 

Agree with Bob. There are enough cases of spam-removed members not having received the resubscribe link that it’s ingenuous to reassure or surmise that the resubscribe email might be somehow different and reach these members even though group emails don’t.


On Aug 12, 2019, at 11:44 AM, Bob Bellizzi <cdfexec@...> wrote:

Shal,
My point is that we can't rely on the message to the member that is sent after the spam marking.
Providing the Owners with the appropriate and unique automatic rejoin link would all us the option to alert the (ex)subscriber
if we were so inclined.
In the last month we had 4 dropped via spam and none were recovered 
2 were Yahoo
1 was sbcglobal
1 was bellsouth
In the previous month only 1 was recovered and that was not a domain hosted by Yahoo/Verizon as this months' 4 were.

--

Bob Bellizzi


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Re: Members Removed for Marking Messages as spam AUTO-Message suggested modification

 

Bob,


My point is that we can't rely on the message to the member that is sent after the spam marking.

I wasn't arguing against your suggestion on that grounds, merely addressing your broad overstatement of facts, lest someone have the impression that the notice seldom or never gets through to the member.
Providing the Owners with the appropriate and unique automatic rejoin link would all us the option to alert the (ex)subscriber if we were so inclined.

You don't need the link to simply alert them, as you and J already do.

I do think there's a technical problem with your suggestion in terms of assuring that only the member in question uses the link. Absent that assurance Mark may as well give owners a control to re-instate the member unilaterally. But that's a decision for Mark to make.

In the last month we had 4 dropped via spam and none were recovered 

In my groups (not counting GMF) I believe I'm 2 for 2 recovered on their own, with no prompting or instruction from me. But that's way too small a sample to be meaningful.
Shal


Re: Members Removed for Marking Messages as spam AUTO-Message suggested modification

Bob Bellizzi
 

Shal,
My point is that we can't rely on the message to the member that is sent after the spam marking.
Providing the Owners with the appropriate and unique automatic rejoin link would all us the option to alert the (ex)subscriber
if we were so inclined.
In the last month we had 4 dropped via spam and none were recovered 
2 were Yahoo
1 was sbcglobal
1 was bellsouth
In the previous month only 1 was recovered and that was not a domain hosted by Yahoo/Verizon as this months' 4 were.

--

Bob Bellizzi


Re: Members Removed for Marking Messages as spam AUTO-Message suggested modification

 

Bob,


Maybe, could be, might be isn't good enough, Shal.
This sounds like guessing and that's not a good enough answer.
 
There is absolutely no way to guarantee the delivery of an email message (except within your own domain). Beyond that one can only guess what the receiving system will do with the message.

Which is to say nothing about guaranteeing that a recipient will notice or read the message, even if delivered to his/her Inbox.

Shal


Re: Members Removed for Marking Messages as spam AUTO-Message suggested modification

Bob Bellizzi
 

Maybe, could be, might be isn't good enough, Shal.
This sounds like guessing and that's not a good enough answer.
--

Bob Bellizzi


Re: Members Removed for Marking Messages as spam AUTO-Message suggested modification

 

Patty, you don’t send thru the owner address. It was the next person in the thread who said they did that. Can’t remember now who it was.


On Aug 12, 2019, at 6:21 AM, Patty Sliney via Groups.Io <hoosierquilt@...> wrote:

But in that case, the provider will definitely reject any messages from groups.io.  So sending a message through Owner won't ever reach the subscriber.
Bob, we don't send a message through Owner.  As I mentioned, we send a manual email from our own personal email addresses to circumvent the now "marked as spam" issue.

Patty S.

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Re: Members Removed for Marking Messages as spam AUTO-Message suggested modification

 

It happened just 2 days ago that a member was spam-removed from my group and never got the resubscrbe email. This happens all the time, “distinct” or not. I finally contacted her today from personal email (prodded by the discussion here, actually - I’d formerly given up doing that) and she wanted to get back in. She’d never received the link.

On Aug 11, 2019, at 10:13 PM, Shal Farley <shals2nd@gmail.com> wrote:

Bob,

... they may or may not notify the subscriber.
Almost certainly not, other than by showing the Spam (Junk) folder as holding unread messages.

But in that case, the provider will definitely reject any messages
from groups.io.
You probably mean quarantine (deliver to the Spam folder) rather than reject ("bounce"). But either result is far from certain. A notice from Groups.io is technically distinct from a group posting in many ways which may be significant to an inbound service's spam filter. On the whole it may be much more likely to be delivered to the member's Inbox.

Shal


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Re: Members Removed for Marking Messages as spam AUTO-Message suggested modification

Patty Sliney
 

Doug, I also sent out a very similar "what happens if you mark a message as spam" auto email every month as well.  Either my list members don't bother to read that message, or they have difficulties understanding.  Either way, the auto email hasn't made much of a difference.  I still get one to several auto unsubs every week.  It is better now, than when we first transferred over, but I still get auto unsubs, and even "repeat offenders". 

They can re-apply, but then they've lost their personal message history.  Which, I suppose those list members may not appreciate or understand, so guess that's moot.


Re: Members Removed for Marking Messages as spam AUTO-Message suggested modification

Patty Sliney
 

But in that case, the provider will definitely reject any messages from groups.io.  So sending a message through Owner won't ever reach the subscriber.
Bob, we don't send a message through Owner.  As I mentioned, we send a manual email from our own personal email addresses to circumvent the now "marked as spam" issue.

Patty S.

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