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moderated Re: banned members notified they're banned when try to log in - I thought this was stopped?

 

A side issue and possible bug: another group I'm a moderator in includes "Banned" in the members lists dropdown, but you can't click on it. It seems that the banned members list is not available to basic groups, either? At minimum, this is some kind of bug and I will send the link to the group to Mark at support.

Meanwhile, if the Past and Banned lists would be consistent with each other, I would not have been led to this hack at all. The consistency has improved over time, but it;s still flakey and I've more or less given up asking for it. Perhaps now is the time to reiterate the request.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: banned members notified they're banned when try to log in - I thought this was stopped?

 

On Sun, Jul 21, 2019 at 11:57 AM, Bruce Bowman wrote:
If you pay for Premium, you will be able to keep a record of past members without using the ban function
  I thought it was obvious from my OP that I do. I have access to the Past Members list.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: banned members notified they're banned when try to log in - I thought this was stopped?

 

On Sun, Jul 21, 2019 at 11:57 AM, Bruce Bowman wrote:
Please let me offer a criticism that might be more appropriate.
I'll give you one: the use of name-calling on this group.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: banned members notified they're banned when try to log in - I thought this was stopped?

 

Bruce, please read my original post in this thread. The information that the two lists keep is disparate. Past sometimes fails to show the Notes.

The prior criticism seems to rest on (1) using a feature for a purpose "other than what was intended" - which is, as I'm sure you know, done all the time and no violation of anything, (2) "nosying around" after a member has left the group, aka, gathering information on why they might possibly have left - which is of course also an invalid criticism. The past members list exists for that precise reason. It is an implementation artifact that the two lists - banned and past - contain differing information. Banning someone, usually temporarily, to get at the extra information does not harm anyone.

This hack rests on the assumption that members are not notified when they are banned, which used to be the case. There was protracted discussion here not long ago about precisely that, and the reason that there should not be an obligatory "banned member" notification. Now it seems the banner is back. I am simply asking that this go back to the way it was, and the way the majority here wanted, which was not to notify people when they are banned. 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: banned members notified they're banned when try to log in - I thought this was stopped?

Bruce Bowman
 

On Sun, Jul 21, 2019 at 01:03 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
Your criticism is inappropriate.
J -- Please let me offer a criticism that might be more appropriate.

If I understand correctly, you are using the ban function for a purpose that it was not intended for -- followed by wondering why your expectations are not met, and claiming that the system is broken. If you pay for Premium, you will be able to keep a record of past members without using the ban function.

Regards,
Bruce


moderated Re: banned members notified they're banned when try to log in - I thought this was stopped?

 

You and I evidently use groups in different ways. And that is our, and everyone’s, perorative. That was clear when you strongly protested the availability of information on pending members that many of us had been strongly requesting and are now grateful for (IP address, etc). If there’s information you don’t want to use about your members, then don’t use it. But this attack on another groups.io member for using information that’s available, accusing them repeatedly of “nosying around” and abusing a feature, is hurtful and does not belong in beta.

On Jul 21, 2019, at 10:28 AM, J_Catlady via Groups.Io <j.olivia.catlady=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:

Yes, wrong word. But you are implying that if they don’t respond, I have no right to look into their past history and notes to try to determine why. Doing that is patently not an abuse of the system of any feature. Like I said, if it is, then so is looking at the past members list. And it’s tiring to hear again your comment that I am “nosying around.” I am looking for information. “Nosying around” is your own pejorative interpretation.

The past members list exists because groups wanted it and I assume, like me, make good use of it. There is nothing in your argument about my use of the banned members list that does not also apply to any premium group’s use of the past memnrtz list. Banning is a hack around the technical problem. I hack around features all the time by using different features to effect the functionality I want.

I am gobsmacked that you are so gobsmacked.
On Jul 21, 2019, at 10:15 AM, Helen <helen@felineckd.com> wrote:

I never said you are punishing them, and I've no idea why you've used that word. I am commenting on the fact that you are using a groups.io function for a purpose entirely different to its intended function. I still find your actions inappropriate but that's one for Mark to decide.

If people do not want to say why they left my groups, I respect their decision. My groups will run just fine without me nosying around after people who have left. And at least I know that the very few people I have banned (two in five years, I think) really were banned.

Helen



--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: banned members notified they're banned when try to log in - I thought this was stopped?

 

Yes, wrong word. But you are implying that if they don’t respond, I have no right to look into their past history and notes to try to determine why. Doing that is patently not an abuse of the system of any feature. Like I said, if it is, then so is looking at the past members list. And it’s tiring to hear again your comment that I am “nosying around.” I am looking for information. “Nosying around” is your own pejorative interpretation.

The past members list exists because groups wanted it and I assume, like me, make good use of it. There is nothing in your argument about my use of the banned members list that does not also apply to any premium group’s use of the past memnrtz list. Banning is a hack around the technical problem. I hack around features all the time by using different features to effect the functionality I want.

I am gobsmacked that you are so gobsmacked.

On Jul 21, 2019, at 10:15 AM, Helen <helen@felineckd.com> wrote:

I never said you are punishing them, and I've no idea why you've used that word. I am commenting on the fact that you are using a groups.io function for a purpose entirely different to its intended function. I still find your actions inappropriate but that's one for Mark to decide.

If people do not want to say why they left my groups, I respect their decision. My groups will run just fine without me nosying around after people who have left. And at least I know that the very few people I have banned (two in five years, I think) really were banned.

Helen


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: banned members notified they're banned when try to log in - I thought this was stopped?

 

I never said you are punishing them, and I've no idea why you've used that word. I am commenting on the fact that you are using a groups.io function for a purpose entirely different to its intended function. I still find your actions inappropriate but that's one for Mark to decide.

If people do not want to say why they left my groups, I respect their decision. My groups will run just fine without me nosying around after people who have left. And at least I know that the very few people I have banned (two in five years, I think) really were banned.

Helen


moderated Re: banned members notified they're banned when try to log in - I thought this was stopped?

 

With your logic, the entire existence and use by moderators of the past members page (available only to premium groups) must qualify as abusive nosying around as well. I’m sorry you feel that way. Use of the past members list to note facts about past members is a completely appropriate way to gain better information about how a group is functioning.

On Jul 21, 2019, at 10:03 AM, J_Catlady via Groups.Io <j.olivia.catlady=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:

Wow. This has nothing to do with punishing them for not responding. In the interest of my group, I simply want to see a record of their interaction, and any notes I or another mod might have made in their Notes page, to better understand why they left. This is not “nosying around after them.” This is an attempt to understand why people may be leaving the group, and which people might be leaving and why, The information is available, and this is simply a technical issue. The banned members list retains more information than the past members list.

Your criticism is inappropriate.
On Jul 21, 2019, at 9:56 AM, Helen <helen@felineckd.com> wrote:

I'm gobsmacked that you use the ban function in this way. If people don't wish to respond to your goodbye message, that's their prerogative. IMO nosying around after them in other ways is inappropriate and abuse of the feature.

Helen



--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: banned members notified they're banned when try to log in - I thought this was stopped?

 

Wow. This has nothing to do with punishing them for not responding. In the interest of my group, I simply want to see a record of their interaction, and any notes I or another mod might have made in their Notes page, to better understand why they left. This is not “nosying around after them.” This is an attempt to understand why people may be leaving the group, and which people might be leaving and why, The information is available, and this is simply a technical issue. The banned members list retains more information than the past members list.

Your criticism is inappropriate.

On Jul 21, 2019, at 9:56 AM, Helen <helen@felineckd.com> wrote:

I'm gobsmacked that you use the ban function in this way. If people don't wish to respond to your goodbye message, that's their prerogative. IMO nosying around after them in other ways is inappropriate and abuse of the feature.

Helen


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: banned members notified they're banned when try to log in - I thought this was stopped?

 

I'm gobsmacked that you use the ban function in this way. If people don't wish to respond to your goodbye message, that's their prerogative. IMO nosying around after them in other ways is inappropriate and abuse of the feature.

Helen


moderated Re: banned members notified they're banned when try to log in - I thought this was stopped?

 

I just went in and unbanned 51 members who, as far as I could remember, had done no wrong. But it was hard to remember at this point which ones in the list had been banned for cause rather than banned so that I could have access more info on their histories. I am hoping for an update on this situation. Thanks!
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated banned members notified they're banned when try to log in - I thought this was stopped?

 

I just discovered, through a snafu in another group besides my own where I happen to be a moderator, that when someone has been banned, and they try to log in, they get a "you have been banned" banner. I thought that banned accounts simply don't see the "join this group" or "apply for membership in this group" button, and that they are not informed they've been banned.

I have been banning members up the wazoo simply because more can be seen of their past history that way. Usually, when someone leaves my group and does not answer the "good-bye, why did you leave" questionnaire, I immediately ban them only so that I can see their member notes, etc. I was under the distinct impression that THEY ARE NOT INFORMED they've been banned. But this changes everything. Unless this is fixed, I need to go back an unban tons of people.

Is it possible to fix this but changing it back to what it was (i.e., people are not informed they're banned from a group)? I think this is a very bad situation.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Messages without subject lines

 

I wish messages sent to the group without subject lines did get rejected, but they don't. If they contain hashtags, the hashtags are duplicated as a pointless subject line. Drives me mad.

Helen


Re: Feature Request- 'Your Groups' menu #suggestion

Cacky B
 

I also prefer the original.
Cacky


moderated Site updates #changelog

 

Changes to the site this week:

  • CHANGE: In the activity log, we sometimes truncate long entries. We now have 'more' links to show the full entry.
  • NEW: Added new chat API endpoints: /newchat, /updatechat, /getchats, /deletechat, /joinchat, /leavechat.
  • NEW: Added /getevent API endpoint.
  • BUGFIX: In some cases when someone RSVPs to an event but is waitlisted, an incorrect activity log entry was generated.
  • NEW: Added /rsvp endpoint to set/update an event RSVP.
  • CHANGE: Previously, the /getsubgroups endpoint would return group objects that represented group aliases. It now longer returns these.
  • CHANGE: In the /directadd endpoint, if a subgroupname or subgroupid is specified that points to a group alias, the pointed to group will be used instead.
  • NEW: Added /getgroupaliases API endpoint to fetch group aliases.
  • INTERNAL: Split out chat websocket endpoint from the web server into a new chat server process.

Have a good weekend everyone.

Mark


moderated Re: Please Disable Collapse of Log Entries #suggestion

 

On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 6:29 PM Bruce Bowman <bruce.bowman@...> wrote:
When I view the Activity Log in my main group, all entries initially show up complete, but then the long ones collapse down to two lines of text and an ellipsis. At that point there is no means available to "click open" the entry and read the whole thing.

These now have 'more' links.

Thanks,
Mark 


Re: Feature Request- 'Your Groups' menu #suggestion

 

Mark,

Gerald wrote:

So, please accept my vote to put the list back to the way it was before these changes were started.

I like today's tweaks, but it would helpful to revert the normal case (without ?test=1) back to the pre- June 25th version, to enable an apples-to-apples comparison.

Shal


Re: Feature Request- 'Your Groups' menu #suggestion

 

I second the vote to change it back to how it was.


On Jul 19, 2019, at 2:22 PM, Gerald Boutin <groupsio@...> wrote:

On Fri, Jul 19, 2019 at 05:57 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
Hi All,
 
I've made some tweaks to the test version of the Your Groups dropdown (what you see when you go to https://groups.io?test=1). I'm truncating group titles at 30 characters. Also, I've fixed the display for when you're subscribed to just the parent group of a group that has subgroups.
 
Please let me know what you think.
 
Thanks,
Mark

 

 

Sorry, but the more I look at this, the more I think that it was a mistake to change how the list of groups is displayed to users without first having the option of maintaining the list that they have become accustomed to.

So, please accept my vote to put the list back to the way it was before these changes were started.
 
--
Gerald

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Re: Feature Request- 'Your Groups' menu #suggestion

Gerald Boutin <groupsio@...>
 

On Fri, Jul 19, 2019 at 05:57 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
Hi All,
 
I've made some tweaks to the test version of the Your Groups dropdown (what you see when you go to https://groups.io?test=1). I'm truncating group titles at 30 characters. Also, I've fixed the display for when you're subscribed to just the parent group of a group that has subgroups.
 
Please let me know what you think.
 
Thanks,
Mark

 

 

Sorry, but the more I look at this, the more I think that it was a mistake to change how the list of groups is displayed to users without first having the option of maintaining the list that they have become accustomed to.

So, please accept my vote to put the list back to the way it was before these changes were started.
 
--
Gerald

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